Jump to content

  • Join us — it's free!

    We are the premiere internet community for New York Rangers news and fan discussion. Don't wait — join the forum today!

IGNORED

Rangers Attempting to Acquire Matt Martin's Contract from TOR

Phil

By Phil
in New York Rangers

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 129
  • Created
  • Last Reply
siddious BSBH Legend

siddious

Posted
Posted
I doubt Hayes reaches 70 points. Even at 55-60 he has value. Andersson (especially) and Chytil would have to take massive strides this season for us to walk away from Hayes.

 

We?ll see how the season plays out I guess but if I had to guess I?d say Hayes is gone after/during this season.

 

Also I don?t think Hayes hits 70 I just hope we sell high on him, if we do indeed sell.

 

Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk

Link to comment
Share on other sites
BrooksBurner BSBH Legend

BrooksBurner

Posted
Posted
Thanks for the perspective rmc51

 

 

This team has a bunch of tough decisions and tough years ahead of it. Here’s hoping they choose wisely when handing out contracts.

 

I guess in principle the idea ought to be not to overpay as if we were some kind of near-term contender.

 

5 years for Hayes makes me uncomfortable—but a shorter term say 2 or 3. I don’t see paying him like a better 2C. I don’t know what the pay comparables are for a better 3C or a low-tier 2C.

 

I'm with you on this on what I'd rather see happen (2-3 year contract). I believe Hayes only has one more year of RFA status and anything after that is buying into his UFA years (someone correct me if that is inaccurate), so it would seem a 2-3 year contract might not be something he would do. He's likely going to want long term.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
siddious BSBH Legend

siddious

Posted
Posted
Doubt during.

 

More likely after...but again depends on Lias and Chytil. Lias gave us nothing to be excited about in his stint. Chytil showed some promise.

 

We agree there. I didn?t want to see either of them last season anyway, let them develop. But they?re here now and have some experience so I?m hoping for decent things from both.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Vodka Drunkenski BSBH Champion

Vodka Drunkenski

Posted
Posted
It's even strength scoring, dude. 5v5 = five on five.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk

 

I understand that but looking at the names on that list, I?m sure Hayes is getting better matchups than those guys to inflate his numbers. I?m not saying I hate Hayes, just making an observation about advanced stats.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Future BSBH Mite

Future

Posted
Posted
I understand that but looking at the names on that list, I’m sure Hayes is getting better matchups than those guys to inflate his numbers. I’m not saying I hate Hayes, just making an observation about advanced stats.

Hayes gets some of the worst matchups in the league.

 

But that list just shows how players score, not how much. It's not a very telling list at all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Giacomin BSBH Mite

Giacomin

Posted
Posted
So at 26 Hayes has upside, but it seems like you think Spooner is what he is at the same age. Why aren't we nutting in our pants over what Spooner did offensively at the end of the season, yet all of a sudden Hayes is a 25 goal scorer?

 

Aside from writing Hayes has upside, based on him improving a bunch in his 4th year and now a new coach, I said none of that!! I did not even mention Spooner here. Or say Hayes is or isn't a 25 goal scorer. You are arguing with others through me.

 

For clarity, I'm comfortable saying Spoons has less value than Hayes. If you are referring to a comment made months ago that Spooner is a known entity, it was meant that unlike a prospect we knew what Spooner could do against NHL competition. He can be a productive third line playmaking winger, when healthy.

 

Can we keep our discussion simpler? This started when I basically said no thanks to a swap, that Hayes is much more valuable than Shaw. Also, I'd rather hold Hayes until we can extract similar value that ROR returned. Or package him for a high quality piece.

 

I'm fine if he stays and expect he does unless we get an enticing offer. As with most who've played here a few years, we should reassess his fit/performance/improvement/value both during and after the season.

 

Shaw at 27 is done, yet Hayes at 26 is a keeper and will improve???

 

As I specifically explained, Hayes is still improving and has 4 years as a pro. Shaw has much more mileage, plays a much harder game and has started to show decline in production and his impact. I'm sure he has plenty left, but will he in 3 years?

 

Again. I feel Shaw or a player like Shaw will help in ways that aren't measured in stats. I could be wrong. Maybe he himself is a piece of shit. All I know is that the guy has made a career of playing gritty and being a contributor in a middle six role. Hell, he can even play center in a pinch. He's versatile. He's signed. He fills a need or two. He's probably available.

 

No disagreement here, except I never heard he was a piece of shit.

 

Again. If you only want to sign Hayes to just flip him, you honestly don't believe in the player.

 

No, not just to flip him. With the right linemates, a strong mental approach, commitment and discipline (on and off the ice), Hayes could be one of the best 3C's on a Championship team. That is why we sign him. [Yes, I'd still value him as a 2C in a trade]. But the Rangers may ultimately be deep at C and weak in other areas like a top line RW or a top scorer or a RHD. C's get good returns, I'm not selling low. If we can add a high quality piece in an area of need, for Hayes, it makes sense. But we'll only get one chance at that, I'm not blowing one of our best assets on Shaw.

 

Now if you were suggesting Spooner for Shaw... I can abide.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
The Dude BSBH Legend

The Dude

Posted
Posted
Aside from writing Hayes has upside, based on him improving a bunch in his 4th year and now a new coach, I said none of that!! I did not even mention Spooner here. Or say Hayes is or isn't a 25 goal scorer. You are arguing with others through me.

 

For clarity, I'm comfortable saying Spoons has less value than Hayes. If you are referring to a comment made months ago that Spooner is a known entity, it was meant that unlike a prospect we knew what Spooner could do against NHL competition. He can be a productive third line playmaking winger, when healthy.

 

Can we keep our discussion simpler? This started when I basically said no thanks to a swap, that Hayes is much more valuable than Shaw. Also, I'd rather hold Hayes until we can extract similar value that ROR returned. Or package him for a high quality piece.

 

I'm fine if he stays and expect he does unless we get an enticing offer. As with most who've played here a few years, we should reassess his fit/performance/improvement/value both during and after the season.

 

 

 

As I specifically explained, Hayes is still improving and has 4 years as a pro. Shaw has much more mileage, plays a much harder game and has started to show decline in production and his impact. I'm sure he has plenty left, but will he in 3 years?

 

 

 

No disagreement here, except I never heard he was a piece of shit.

 

 

 

No, not just to flip him. With the right linemates, a strong mental approach, commitment and discipline (on and off the ice), Hayes could be one of the best 3C's on a Championship team. That is why we sign him. [Yes, I'd still value him as a 2C in a trade]. But the Rangers may ultimately be deep at C and weak in other areas like a top line RW or a top scorer or a RHD. C's get good returns, I'm not selling low. If we can add a high quality piece in an area of need, for Hayes, it makes sense. But we'll only get one chance at that, I'm not blowing one of our best assets on Shaw.

 

Now if you were suggesting Spooner for Shaw... I can abide.

 

I have no idea what you're talking about. In one instance you call Hate a 3C, yet want to trade him at the cost of a 2C.... Huh?

 

Hayes didn't drastically improve his 4th year though....

 

You write off Spooner, and continually say he prefers the wing when he doesn't. You act as if he is not needed. And look past the fact that HE had the good run at the end of the season. They are the same age, yet you act like Spooner is done and Hayes is on the rise. Yet they both finished the season in similar situations. Scored a bit in a shitty team... Hayes does have more value, but it's only because of his two way play. I feel Spooner is much better offensively.

 

I feel like many including yourself are putting way too much stock into Hayes stats from this past season. Calling him a 50 point player is a stretch. A big one. You go on to say you want a return similar to what O'Reilly got. Kevin Hayes is not on the same planet as O'Reilly. You're setting yourself up for disappointment if you are expecting anything like that in return. I seriously feel a guy like Shaw (maybe with a sweetener) is closer to reality than what you are expecting... Other teams can sell better centers to teams that are looking for such players. Hayes ISN'T the hot commodity you seem to think he is.

 

IMO I'm fine with keeping him if the price is right... I think the contract Boone Jenner just signed should be exactly in line with what Hayes is worth. Jenner had better numbers early on and just got less money than what people are suggesting Hayes is worth.

 

4 years 15 mill. That's 3.75 annually. That's for a guy with better offensive numbers.

 

4 for 4 and no no movement clause is all I'm willing to give, and much like you, I move him the second someone offers any value.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Long live the King BSBH Hall-of-Famer

Long live the King

Posted
Posted
I have no idea what you're talking about. In one instance you call Hate a 3C, yet want to trade him at the cost of a 2C.... Huh?

 

Hayes didn't drastically improve his 4th year though....

 

You write off Spooner, and continually say he prefers the wing when he doesn't. You act as if he is not needed. And look past the fact that HE had the good run at the end of the season. They are the same age, yet you act like Spooner is done and Hayes is on the rise. Yet they both finished the season in similar situations. Scored a bit in a shitty team... Hayes does have more value, but it's only because of his two way play. I feel Spooner is much better offensively.

 

I feel like many including yourself are putting way too much stock into Hayes stats from this past season. Calling him a 50 point player is a stretch. A big one. You go on to say you want a return similar to what O'Reilly got. Kevin Hayes is not on the same planet as O'Reilly. You're setting yourself up for disappointment if you are expecting anything like that in return. I seriously feel a guy like Shaw (maybe with a sweetener) is closer to reality than what you are expecting... Other teams can sell better centers to teams that are looking for such players. Hayes ISN'T the hot commodity you seem to think he is.

 

IMO I'm fine with keeping him if the price is right... I think the contract Boone Jenner just signed should be exactly in line with what Hayes is worth. Jenner had better numbers early on and just got less money than what people are suggesting Hayes is worth.

 

4 years 15 mill. That's 3.75 annually. That's for a guy with better offensive numbers.

 

4 for 4 and no no movement clause is all I'm willing to give, and much like you, I move him the second someone offers any value.

 

Where do you get your stats from?

 

Jenner has one season over 35 points. Hayes has never been below 35 points.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
The Dude BSBH Legend

The Dude

Posted
Posted
Where do you get your stats from?

 

Jenner has one season over 35 points. Hayes has never been below 35 points.

 

?

15/16

30 goals 19 assists?

 

I'd say a 30 goal season tops what Hayes has done.

 

Jenner has always been good on faceoffs. He certainly shoots a fuck ton more. Shooting % is better. Out hits him by a landslide.. Take aways are better.. Less giveaways. He's younger... I mean points wise, yeah, I guess Hayes has the upper hand. But all the other stuff? And on a Torts team?

 

I think the two are extremely comparable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Long live the King BSBH Hall-of-Famer

Long live the King

Posted
Posted
?

15/16

30 goals 19 assists?

 

I'd say a 30 goal season tops what Hayes has done.

 

Jenner has always been good on faceoffs. He certainly shoots a fuck ton more. Shooting % is better. Out hits him by a landslide.. Take aways are better.. Less giveaways. He's younger... I mean points wise, yeah, I guess Hayes has the upper hand. But all the other stuff? And on a Torts team?

 

I think the two are extremely comparable.

 

So Jenner has 1 30 goal season 3 years ago and hasn't topped 20 since.

 

Jenner is not a face off guy. There were 4 players on the Jackets the took more faceoffs than he did. He's taken 1297 career faceoffs. Hayes took 1112 last year.

 

Jenner career shooting % is 10.3. Hayes is 13.1.

 

Jenner 160 career takeaways. Hayes 173. (in 32 less games).

 

A) I still don't know where you're getting your incorrect numbers from. B) You're again comparing Hayes to a role player and complaining that Hayes is worse because he doesn't hit enough for you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Pete BSBH Legend

Pete

Posted
Posted
?

15/16

30 goals 19 assists?

 

I'd say a 30 goal season tops what Hayes has done.

 

Jenner has always been good on faceoffs. He certainly shoots a fuck ton more. Shooting % is better. Out hits him by a landslide.. Take aways are better.. Less giveaways. He's younger... I mean points wise, yeah, I guess Hayes has the upper hand. But all the other stuff? And on a Torts team?

 

I think the two are extremely comparable.

Dude Jenner sucks lol. He had an anomaly year. He scored 13 goals last year
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Go to topic listing


×
×
  • Create New...