rumor/report: Rangers Attempting to Acquire Matt Martin's Contract from TOR

[Gravesy]

Kyle Dubas.

[n_y_r_09]

Hello all, new guy here. Was at nyrcafe, but all of a sudden gone a few months back.

 

I would've liked Matt Martin of 5 years ago. Not today's version or the price.

 

Hayes, like this kid and is on his last chance here to make it or go. Kid has skill and is a big body. Just needs the attitude, and to put it all together on a consistent basis.

 

This new coach might help with that. Quinn seems like a no frills guy, who will demand hard work.

[Long live the King]

Hello all, new guy here. Was at nyrcafe, but all of a sudden gone a few months back.

 

I would've liked Matt Martin of 5 years ago. Not today's version or the price.

 

Hayes, like this kid and is on his last chance here to make it or go. Kid has skill and is a big body. Just needs the attitude, and to put it all together on a consistent basis.

 

This new coach might help with that. Quinn seems like a no frills guy, who will demand hard work.

 

Welcome! :cheers:

[n_y_r_09]

Welcome! :cheers:

 

Thanks!

[The Dude]

I don't disagree, but I'm not bringing in decent grit in exchange for our #2 C. You can join Chiarelli in hanging a sucker sign, I'm not interested.

 

I don't think we should move Hayes now, unless we get the going rate for top 6 centers. I don't think we can get those players but there were reports the Rangers are interested in Trouba (and he's asking 8.5 pre free agency) and we could offer a package around a center, because of their need. Someone else brought up Debrusk, but we didn't spend time on it. Contrast that with the way you beat us over the head with dumping the same guys for nickels on the dollar.

 

Matt Martin was just given away, we could have had him or other 4th line scraps that were just signed. Dime a dozen. Not sure why we didn't pluck one for a 5th rounder during the draft before salaries inflated this free agency. Bad planning, but I'm not compounding that mistake by trading a guy with a lot of value for a JAG with grit.

If im a sucker like Chiarelli..... I feel that I'm not the sucker sold in Hayes being a second line center. He's a solid third and I think this team has multiple options for the third slot. All are rookies.

 

So let me get this right. You can tout Hayes all you want propping him up as a second line center, going on and on about trade possibilities involving him, that are seriously out if reach, and that's fine.

 

Then there's me, that's trying to be realistic in what the value of the player actually is, but I have to shut up????

 

You're trying to trade him too. Only difference is you think he is worth a young legit 1st pair RH D man, and I feel he's worth a 2nd line forward with grit. And I'm the one who has to back off?

 

Matt Martin fucking sucks. The fact that Toronto got someone (let alone the team they stole Tavares from) to give up an asset for that contract is hilarious.

 

My opinion is that the Rangers need a player or two, that can play middle six, and be able to contribute a physical style game that fits what Quinn wants to play. Besides the defensive side of the game, I don't see Hayes as a fit. Especially at 5 years at 5+ with a no trade (something everyone is overlooking).

 

You keep calling him a 2nd line center, but I don't think he is, and I have a feeling the rest of the league agrees, otherwise he would be traded for a gigantic haul just under what the Sabres got for a guy who admitidly gave up last season. If the Rangers are holding on to Hayes and turning down such offers, you should be furious. My opinion is. They aren't getting much heat on Hayes

 

Hayes has worth. No doubt. I think people need to get back to reality as to what that worth actually is. It's been a while since it was said that he is generating serious interest from around the league... All the free agent centers have been signed. A legit 1-2 center just brought back a haul in O'Reilly...

 

I really think that people are going to be upset if Hayes does get dealt, because the return is going to be much much less than what is being talked about. Everyone has him as a sign and trade in the near future. So, I'm not sold on the majority of the Hayes hypers believing in his abilities, since most just talk about flipping him as soon as possible.

[Pete]

If you're basing your entire argument on the premise that Hayes isn't a 2nd line center, regardless of opinion, you're wrong because his stats say so.

 

He's a 2nd liner on about 20 teams in the NHL...the ones who don't have Stamkos/Point, Kuz/Backstrom, Sid/Malkin, etc.

[Giacomin]

If im a sucker like Chiarelli..... I feel that I'm not the sucker sold in Hayes being a second line center. He's a solid third and I think this team has multiple options for the third slot. All are rookies.

 

So let me get this right. You can tout Hayes all you want propping him up as a second line center, going on and on about trade possibilities involving him, that are seriously out if reach, and that's fine.

 

Then there's me, that's trying to be realistic in what the value of the player actually is, but I have to shut up????

 

You're trying to trade him too. Only difference is you think he is worth a young legit 1st pair RH D man, and I feel he's worth a 2nd line forward with grit. And I'm the one who has to back off?

 

Matt Martin fucking sucks. The fact that Toronto got someone (let alone the team they stole Tavares from) to give up an asset for that contract is hilarious.

 

My opinion is that the Rangers need a player or two, that can play middle six, and be able to contribute a physical style game that fits what Quinn wants to play. Besides the defensive side of the game, I don't see Hayes as a fit. Especially at 5 years at 5+ with a no trade (something everyone is overlooking).

 

You keep calling him a 2nd line center, but I don't think he is, and I have a feeling the rest of the league agrees, otherwise he would be traded for a gigantic haul just under what the Sabres got for a guy who admitidly gave up last season. If the Rangers are holding on to Hayes and turning down such offers, you should be furious. My opinion is. They aren't getting much heat on Hayes

 

Hayes has worth. No doubt. I think people need to get back to reality as to what that worth actually is. It's been a while since it was said that he is generating serious interest from around the league... All the free agent centers have been signed. A legit 1-2 center just brought back a haul in O'Reilly...

 

I really think that people are going to be upset if Hayes does get dealt, because the return is going to be much much less than what is being talked about. Everyone has him as a sign and trade in the near future. So, I'm not sold on the majority of the Hayes hypers believing in his abilities, since most just talk about flipping him as soon as possible.

 

No offense meant Dude. I can understand and agree with much of what you are saying. Here is where we disagree.

 

1. In a trade, I value Hayes as a 2C with upside. A guy just entering his prime with zero injury issues and exceled in the shutdown D role last year and also improved in taking the puck to the net at the end of the year. He also improved at faceoffs every year. If he listens to his coaches and works hard he can still get better.

 

2. If he ever was, Shaw is no longer a 2nd line talent. Shaw is a more battered player who's turning 27 in days. He's starting to show the beginnings of a decline (wear and tear/concussions?) and is not what I want in return. We need to trade our very good assets for talent that is going to contribute to a Cup contender in 3 years. Shaw is not going to be that.

 

3. I wanted to see if we could get an available Dman like Hamilton or Trouba for a Hayes package, not just Hayes. Or a top 12 draft pick. It didn't happen, not expecting Trouba to happen.

 

4. I expect Hayes to start the season under Quinn and look forward to see how he plays. I'll bet his trade value increases. Sakic was patient with Duchene, Buff was patient about ROR. Columbus with RyJo, Yzerman with Druin. That is what is necessary to extract the value needed to build a contender. 2 way C's this age are not to be sold cheap.

[BrooksBurner]

If you're basing your entire argument on the premise that Hayes isn't a 2nd line center, regardless of opinion, you're wrong because his stats say so.

 

He's a 2nd liner on about 20 teams in the NHL...the ones who don't have Stamkos/Point, Kuz/Backstrom, Sid/Malkin, etc.

 

Based on which stats? Surely not by points (130th amongst forwards, 82nd amongst centers).

 

We seem to have two groups of people on this board. Those that are in love with Hayes, and those that hate Hayes. He showed to be a solid, lower tier two way center last year and last year only... let's not make him out to be more or less than he is.

[Pete]

Based on which stats? Surely not by points (130th amongst forwards, 82nd amongst centers).

 

We seem to have two groups of people on this board. Those that are in love with Hayes, and those that hate Hayes. He showed to be a solid, lower tier two way center last year and last year only... let's not make him out to be more or less than he is.

Please go show me the 25 goal centers who start a Lion's share of their shifts in the D zone and don't get top PP minutes.

 

I'm willing to bet his scoring chances generated are top 30 for centers but I don't have the time or the urge to look because you're right...there are 2 groups. Those with perspective and those without.

[BrooksBurner]

Please go show me the 25 goal centers who start a Lion's share of their shifts in the D zone and don't get top PP minutes.

 

I'm willing to bet his scoring chances generated are top 30 for centers but I don't have the time or the urge to look because you're right...there are 2 groups. Those with perspective and those without.

 

Sorry, that is not how it works. The onus is on you to prove he is a 2C and worth top 2C money. Obviously you cannot, so you resort to whiny ad hominem statements that mean nothing.

 

We get it. You are in the love Hayes camp, and are incapable of objective thinking on this topic.

[josh]

He outscored Zibanejad at even strength

[Pete]

Sorry, that is not how it works. The onus is on you to prove he is a 2C and worth top 2C money. Obviously you cannot, so you resort to whiny ad hominem statements that mean nothing.

 

We get it. You are in the love Hayes camp, and are incapable of objective thinking on this topic.

This is the same pathetic argument you always follow. Rather than state facts, you use bullshit statements like "this is what a loser says".

 

Your schtick is old and tired.

 

For the record you are the one claiming he's not what he is and he shouldn't get paid. So prove it the same way you tried to prove Hertl didn't and got slapped with facts.

 

Notice you bailed hard out of that thread.

[Pete]

He outscored Zibanejad at even strength

But you couldn't outscore a one legged ginger in a whorehouse with a fist full of 50s.

[josh]

But you couldn't outscore a one legged ginger in a whorehouse with a fist full of 50s.

 

This isn’t the grandpa jokes thread

[BrooksBurner]

This is the same pathetic argument you always follow. Rather than state facts, you use bullshit statements like "this is what a loser says".

 

Your schtick is old and tired.

 

For the record you are the one claiming he's not what he is and he shouldn't get paid. So prove it the same way you tried to prove Hertl didn't and got slapped with facts.

 

Notice you bailed hard out of that thread.

 

Yawn. Still waiting on a factual argument from you other than you spouting your opinion on what you think Hayes is, and treating it like it's a majority view across the NHL. If he was a legit 2C and his asking price is 5.5 mill, he would have been signed already. But guess what? He's not a 2C.

[Pete]

Yawn. Still waiting on a factual argument from you other than you spouting your opinion on what you think Hayes is, and treating it like it's a majority view across the NHL. If he was a legit 2C and his asking price is 5.5 mill, he would have been signed already. But guess what? He's not a 2C.

LOL ok.

 

I can't help you if the facts slap you in the face and you ignore them.

 

I'll treat this as surrender. Go have a hot dog and a beer.

[BrooksBurner]

LOL ok.

 

I can't help you if the facts slap you in the face and you ignore them.

 

I'll treat this as surrender. Go have a hot dog and a beer.

 

:rofl:

[Phil]

2014 to 2018 5v5 Leaders by Primary Points Percentage:

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk

[The Dude]

No offense meant Dude. I can understand and agree with much of what you are saying. Here is where we disagree.

 

1. In a trade, I value Hayes as a 2C with upside. A guy just entering his prime with zero injury issues and exceled in the shutdown D role last year and also improved in taking the puck to the net at the end of the year. He also improved at faceoffs every year. If he listens to his coaches and works hard he can still get better.

 

2. If he ever was, Shaw is no longer a 2nd line talent. Shaw is a more battered player who's turning 27 in days. He's starting to show the beginnings of a decline (wear and tear/concussions?) and is not what I want in return. We need to trade our very good assets for talent that is going to contribute to a Cup contender in 3 years. Shaw is not going to be that.

 

3. I wanted to see if we could get an available Dman like Hamilton or Trouba for a Hayes package, not just Hayes. Or a top 12 draft pick. It didn't happen, not expecting Trouba to happen.

 

4. I expect Hayes to start the season under Quinn and look forward to see how he plays. I'll bet his trade value increases. Sakic was patient with Duchene, Buff was patient about ROR. Columbus with RyJo, Yzerman with Druin. That is what is necessary to extract the value needed to build a contender. 2 way C's this age are not to be sold cheap.

 

So at 26 Hayes has upside, but it seems like you think Spooner is what he is at the same age. Why aren't we nutting in our pants over what Spooner did offensively at the end of the season, yet all of a sudden Hayes is a 25 goal scorer?

 

Shaw at 27 is done, yet Hayes at 26 is a keeper and will improve??? Again. I feel Shaw or a player like Shaw will help in ways that aren't measured in stats. I could be wrong. Maybe he himself is a piece of shit. All I know is that the guy has made a career of playing gritty and being a contributor in a middle six role. Hell, he can even play center in a pinch. He's versatile. He's signed. He fills a need or two. He's probably available.

 

Again. If you only want to sign Hayes to just flip him, you honestly don't believe in the player. IMO that's for good reason. I don't either, and I'd rather deal him now before he hinders development of a kid OR decreases his value by shitting the bed as a 2nd line center. Something he hasn't really been used as, up until the team stunk. They continued to stink. He was an anomaly. Anyone who watched this guy over the last four years knows he will not advance or even reproduce the numbers of last season. IMO, to expect those numbers or even an advancement is wishful thinking. But since it seems like he is staying, I guess I should start hoping this happens.

 

Quinn is a new coach. Yes. Let's not forget Hayes was given THE longest leash of any younger player to come through the organization in years. It's not like he was held back or had to fight through what some of us felt was unfair treatment of some kids by AV.

 

But again. Everyone who sticks up for him and touts the numbers, is just hoping to unload him as quickly as possible.

 

And if we are going off stats alone, I'm guessing Grabner is a 2nd liner as well.?

[The Dude]

He outscored Zibanejad at even strength

 

So did you. The team sucked.

[The Dude]

2014 to 2018 5v5 Leaders by Primary Points Percentage:

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk

 

Skinner is # 2 on the list. Vanek is #3... Sedin 6. Zetterberg 17, Ovechkin 25!!!!

 

This list shows that some mediocre talent can be up with the rest of the league if you skew the weird stat to show something.

 

Hayes is better in 5 on 5 than Ovechkin.

 

Please.

[BrooksBurner]

Skinner is # 2 on the list. Vanek is #3... Sedin 6. Zetterberg 17, Ovechkin 25!!!!

 

This list shows that some mediocre talent can be up with the rest of the league if you skew the weird stat to show something.

 

Hayes is better in 5 on 5 than Ovechkin.

 

Please.

 

People like that chart on here. It looks at the percentage of how many points those players had that were primary points. Hayes' primary point percentage is largely inflated from his rookie season, where 35 of his 36 points were primary (primary percentage = .972). He hasn't been anywhere close to that in the last 3 years. This chart does nothing more than cherry pick a stat that paints Hayes in a favorable light.

 

It actually reminds me of how much hope I had for Hayes after that rookie season. The next 2 years he was really not very good. Last year he upped his game as a solid 2 way center. We don't know what we are going to get next year and beyond.

[Respecttheblue]

People like that chart on here. It looks at the percentage of how many points those players had that were primary points. Hayes' primary point percentage is largely inflated from his rookie season, where 35 of his 36 points were primary (primary percentage = .972). He hasn't been anywhere close to that in the last 3 years. This chart does nothing more than cherry pick a stat that paints Hayes in a favorable light.

 

It actually reminds me of how much hope I had for Hayes after that rookie season. The next 2 years he was really not very good. Last year he upped his game as a solid 2 way center. We don't know what we are going to get next year and beyond.

 

Thanks for the perspective rmc51

 

 

This team has a bunch of tough decisions and tough years ahead of it. Here?s hoping they choose wisely when handing out contracts.

 

I guess in principle the idea ought to be not to overpay as if we were some kind of near-term contender.

 

5 years for Hayes makes me uncomfortable?but a shorter term say 2 or 3. I don?t see paying him like a better 2C. I don?t know what the pay comparables are for a better 3C or a low-tier 2C.

[siddious]

WIth Chytil and Lias coming into their own I really find it hard to imagine Hayes? time with this team extending beyond this upcoming season unless one of those two kids has just a terrible year.

 

I just hope Hayes puts up 60-70 points with the added ice time this year so we can sell high on him. I?d say the same about Vesey who has done nothing for me since we got him... who knows though under Quinn he might be a different player.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

WIth Chytil and Lias coming into their own I really find it hard to imagine Hayes’ time with this team extending beyond this upcoming season unless one of those two kids has just a terrible year.

 

I just hope Hayes puts up 60-70 points with the added ice time this year so we can sell high on him. I’d say the same about Vesey who has done nothing for me since we got him... who knows though under Quinn he might be a different player.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk

 

Im pretty sure we would never trade a 70 points Hayes.