ThirtyONE Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 huge difference between chasing JT and Kovalchuk, that's the other side of what I said. Kovalchuk is a band-aid to a compound fracture. He's not getting a big deal. I just don't understand what the problem is. 2 year deal? What's the harm? He's a warm body and can maybe help the russian players transition to NA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 I don’t have a problem with it. However the angst I have is that Kovalchuk signals what the rangers have always done. I want and expect patience. Kovalchuk on his own is no problem. If it’s just part of a broader plan to try and buy their way into contention then Gorton can go f himself. The rumors surrounding J.T. and Karlsson along with Kovalchuk make me nervous that once again this franchise refuses to allow anyone to take them as serious hockey people rather than producers on broadway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThirtyONE Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 But they have to buy someone. They have 7 NHL forwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 If you have a problem with the rangers acquiring 1 or 3 of the top players this league has seen in the last decade because of the stigma of how other fans will comment about your team on twitter, you have some personal issues you need to overcome. You build the best team you can. Picks, prospects, trades, doesn't matter. And this season , they need to get something or you'll see a worse product next season , and at that point, the hole is going to be harder to climb out of Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 There’s actually a very good case to be made to not sign each one of them. I see both sides to all but Karlsson. But damn me for trying to discuss it without getting insulted by the resident tough guy who claims I have personal issues as he describes players on this team as Giant Vaginas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 If you have a problem with the rangers acquiring 1 or 3 of the top players this league has seen in the last decade because of the stigma of how other fans will comment about your team on twitter, you have some personal issues you need to overcome. You build the best team you can. Picks, prospects, trades, doesn't matter. And this season , they need to get something or you'll see a worse product next season , and at that point, the hole is going to be harder to climb out ofI have a problem with trading a ton of shit for Karlsson when we can have him or Doughty for nothing but money in a year. Sign JT. Sign Kovy (although it's insanity to expect more than a 25/25 season from him, IMO). You have to put a team on the ice. Trading any assets for EK is a huge mistake IMO, unless they somehow recoup them in a trade for Shattenkirk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puck Head Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 I have a problem with trading a ton of shit for Karlsson when we can have him or Doughty for nothing but money in a year. Sign JT. Sign Kovy (although it's insanity to expect more than a 25/25 season from him, IMO). You have to put a team on the ice. Trading any assets for EK is a huge mistake IMO, unless they somehow recoup them in a trade for Shattenkirk. Agreed with all this. A player such as JT simply doesn't become avail very often. I'm not interested in taking a step backwards in regards to depth of prospects/picks for EK Kovi i'm 50/50 on with a short contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slobberknocker Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 i hate dolan but think in this case he is spot on. i'm all in on JT. i'd wait a year and go after Doughty. The man's made for Broadway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 Leadership and intangibles may be important to a degree. But for a few bounces in the LAK/NYR Finals though, McDonough would have been a Stanley Cup captain. There was a point in that series had AV lost his shit about his goalie getting run, may be the refs take a harder look and things play out differently. In that a lack of leadership, or simply a coach not capable of handling strategy in the moment? And Messier, for all his leadership, could not get some lousy NYR teams into the playoffs in his second stint here. In 1997, NYR had Messier, Leetch, Graves and a bunch of 1994 vets and Wayne Gretzky and still couldn't get past the Lindros Flyers in an ECF. And if Messier doesn't score a hat trick late in game 6 vs. the Devils, is he still a great leader? Was that leadership or a great player being in the moment. AV was a blasted fool to not be more hands on about the lockerroom. But you have to also understand talent matters. And all the leadership, chemistry and other such unmeasurables are sometimes things sportswriters tell us all about after the fact. Haven't heard of a losing team with great leadership and wonderful chemistry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 McDonagh wasn’t a captain, then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Lothbrok Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 Just my humble opinion, but something's seriously wrong if the captaincy doesn't go to Zook. Guy literally suffered brain damage and came back like a man possessed for one of his best seasons. He has always showed up and he deserves the recognition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted April 22, 2018 Author Share Posted April 22, 2018 That's not how leadership/letters work. Kreider nearly died from a blood clot. Does he deserve it, too? I wouldn't discount either of them for the role, but their injury history is utterly irrelevant to the equation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flynn Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 Dolan is a complete buffoon... but it’s more about the Knicks, not the Rangers.. What has he done that makes him a bad hockey owner? He spends money, he lets his hockey guys do their jobs with little to no intervention. His meddling in Knicks matters have been distasterous, but he’s been there with an open checkbook and been given a good many home playoff gates in his pocket for his troubles. I have more issue with Slats than I do Dolan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gravesy Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 I have a problem with trading a ton of shit for Karlsson when we can have him or Doughty for nothing but money in a year. Sign JT. Sign Kovy (although it's insanity to expect more than a 25/25 season from him, IMO). You have to put a team on the ice. Trading any assets for EK is a huge mistake IMO, unless they somehow recoup them in a trade for Shattenkirk. Agreed. I?d love Tavares and I?d be happy with Kovy for a couple of seasons. Karlsson only if Ottawa will go for a deal based on our roster players, which imo isn?t happening in a month of Sundays. As for Dolan I?m not sure what people expect him to say. He can?t go ?look Lar, our intention is to ice a bunch of kids and phone it in the entire season in order to have a run at drafting Jack Hughes.? Of course he?s going to say we?ve got ambitions for next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Lothbrok Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 That's not how leadership/letters work. Kreider nearly died from a blood clot. Does he deserve it, too? I wouldn't discount either of them for the role, but their injury history is utterly irrelevant to the equation. Well, I phrased that improperly. You're correct. It's not like: "congratulations, you're a double amputee, here's the captaincy, you earned it!" Rather, it's the fact that instead of being even a little deterred, and coming back softer, it's like he came back with something to prove. In a season where we all griped about the other captains on the roster for sometimes lackadaisical play, nobody complained about Zook. Most players lose their edge after something like that. They start to pull up a lot, or become afraid of getting hit, etc. He came back seriously like a man possessed. So yeah, not so much that the injury is part of his credentials, but more that this guy was showing up every night in spite of it for his best season. He's been the team's leading scorer for the past three seasons in a row, and I think we can all acknowledge that it's not like he had a ton of help doing it. Granted, some nights the whole team didn't show up. But in terms of tenure, production, dedication, loyalty and heart, I don't think there's a better candidate on the roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 If the Dolans do the same thing to us that they did to the Knicks, we will have no chance of winning anytime soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodka Drunkenski Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 Two entirely different sports and how teams are constructed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LONG LONG LONG TIME FAN Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 The knicks have stunk up the NBA for years with the dollars ( dolans ) being more than complicit. If they get involved with the decision making with the NYR, the same will occur, imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosenvold Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 I have a problem with trading a ton of shit for Karlsson when we can have him or Doughty for nothing but money in a year. Sign JT. Sign Kovy (although it's insanity to expect more than a 25/25 season from him, IMO). You have to put a team on the ice. Trading any assets for EK is a huge mistake IMO, unless they somehow recoup them in a trade for Shattenkirk. Exactly. There is a fine line between rebuilding and restocking the farm and unhealthy tanking. What the Rangers did this year was a tough, deep and very massive tear-down, but it came mid-season and had all the desired effects. That was both necessary, prudent and right in time with a strong 2018 draft and a team that wasn't good enough. Fine. But to keep tearing down and entering a season with a team that's deliberately built to lose - that's another level. That could be very toxic for the culture and self-image of the entire franchise and could possibly alienate fans all across the board. The Rangers shouldn't go that far. Even if they are the worst team in the league, they are still most likely to pick 4th in 2019. It's simply not worth it. Like I lined up earlier in another thread, it's not about being worst, it's about prioritizing future assets and development and making smart moves - sometimes even mortgaging the present for future gains. You eat years of your expensive contracts and give chances to young or fringe players. You build up a new culture around new faces. You sell high on players who are not part of the long-term planning. Maybe you finish 25th - maybe you finish 17th - so be it. You do not want to dig a hole like the Coyotes or the Sabres find themselves in after years of losing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slobberknocker Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 i dont think that is the plan at all. i believe the philosophy here is a reload. you land tavares and if the price is right try to bring JVR in here (he is a rangers fan) and i think u can right this ship pretty quick if you make a few shrewd moves on the blueline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYR2711 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 i dont think that is the plan at all. i believe the philosophy here is a reload. you land tavares and if the price is right try to bring JVR in here (he is a rangers fan) and i think u can right this ship pretty quick if you make a few shrewd moves on the blueline. I agree here. They should make a play for JVR, wonder if he would take a slight discount like Shatt did to play here. I don't like the idea of brining in Kovalchuk for 2 years at $6M on an over 35 contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puck Head Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 JVR will probably command 6+ per year for at least 6 years. Not sure If I?d have any interest in that Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 I just don?t see how Kovalchuk at 6m for 2 or 3 years is a better signing than Nash at the same. If the desired effect is to have a vet for the youth to look up to and learn from wouldn?t nash fit that bill better? Also Nash plays in all facets and plays a 200 foot game, Kovalchuk does not. I would rather have the youth learn from a player who backchecks and plays a responsible game rather than a guy who does not. I think the consensus here is that Kovalchuk is probably a 25 goal mid 50 pt guy. Nash isn?t far off from that at all and he brings so much more to the game. Add in the fact that he has no negative history, he not years removed from playing in the league, he?s younger I believe, and he?s already proven to be a true professional here. If the rangers need to acquire a player like Kovalchuk which is a fair argument then why wouldn?t nash be the better first choice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 No thank you to jvr. Players of his ilk who are not particularly great skaters don’t typically age well. He’d be good for a couple of years but 6 years is a huge problem. 3 to 4 years from now hopefully the rangers will have a problem signing all the young talent they picked up at this deadline and the draft. Jvr at 3-4 years sure but nothing more. And he’s not signing that unless he’s dead set on being a ranger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 I just don’t see how Kovalchuk at 6m for 2 or 3 years is a better signing than Nash at the same. If the desired effect is to have a vet for the youth to look up to and learn from wouldn’t nash fit that bill better? Also Nash plays in all facets and plays a 200 foot game, Kovalchuk does not. I would rather have the youth learn from a player who backchecks and plays a responsible game rather than a guy who does not. I think the consensus here is that Kovalchuk is probably a 25 goal mid 50 pt guy. Nash isn’t far off from that at all and he brings so much more to the game. Add in the fact that he has no negative history, he not years removed from playing in the league, he’s younger I believe, and he’s already proven to be a true professional here. If the rangers need to acquire a player like Kovalchuk which is a fair argument then why wouldn’t nash be the better first choice? because we tried. it didnt work out as planned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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