Pete Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 Well yea, but he's 22. 23 when next season starts. Still get up to 7 years where he's a dominant NHLer. You also endorsed signing Kovalchuk (I think?) Hard to reconcile this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torontonyr Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 Well yea, but he's 22. 23 when next season starts. Still get up to 7 years where he's a dominant NHLer. You also endorsed signing Kovalchuk (I think?) Hard to reconcile this... Again, was being hyperbolic admittedly. But if you want to go down this road: Nate Mack would require a significant asset exchange to acquire and as I mentioned previously, we'd be buying high for a player who generally performs at a 50pt per season clip. Is his 90pt performance him reaching potential? Maybe. Am I willing to give up several key assets to bet on that? Probably not. This team has had its share of 2A Centers, and has one right now in the form of Mika Zib. Without seeing more from him, I'd be unwilling to commit the assets to acquire him, assets that would come at a cost larger than the sum of a Karlsson rental. On the other hand, Kovalchuk costs us literally nothing in terms of assets. Moreover, his play aside - and I will return to that - he's an asset to us a recruiter and in-room-assistant with Russian players both in the system and on the ice. Buchnevich, Rykov, Shestyorkin, all will benefit from his presence on this team, and in turn the team may also benefit from their presence. Returning to his play, unlike Nathan, Kovalchuk has had a strong track record of performing at a professional level. I agree, his age is an issue to a degree and his stats in the KHL are inflated due to a lesser competition field and/or a shortened season. But with that comes a positive. He hasn't been as banged up as many players in his age group due to the difference in physicality in the KHL, he hasn't played arduously long seasons in the KHL, and yet he has faced decent competition in the KHL to reasonably suggest that he's "still got it". Beyond that, players who've left and returned from the KHL have shown similar success in the form of Radulov and Jagr, the latter of which returned at much later stage in his career from a much more physical period of the sport in general. PLUS, it's a 3 year deal and if you're truly a believer in a rebuild, even if he is awful it costs us nothing but a roster spot and cap room, should he unflippable to another team. So I hope that allows you reconcile my opinions, or at least assists in making it less hard Pete. Have a wonderful night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 If the Avs were actually entertaining the thought of trading Mackinnon, you have to be in on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 Skjei, Smith, Spooner, 28th overall, TB 2nd 2019 Win the lottery. Give up nothing, deal Namestikov for an NHL caliber D man also. Sign Tavares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torontonyr Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 Win the lottery. Give up nothing, deal Namestikov for an NHL caliber D man also. Sign Tavares. This dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 The av’s are not trading him. Amazing that there is any argument to not wanting him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 Again, was being hyperbolic admittedly. But if you want to go down this road: Nate Mack would require a significant asset exchange to acquire and as I mentioned previously, we'd be buying high for a player who generally performs at a 50pt per season clip. Is his 90pt performance him reaching potential? Maybe. Am I willing to give up several key assets to bet on that? Probably not. This team has had its share of 2A Centers, and has one right now in the form of Mika Zib. Without seeing more from him, I'd be unwilling to commit the assets to acquire him, assets that would come at a cost larger than the sum of a Karlsson rental. On the other hand, Kovalchuk costs us literally nothing in terms of assets. Moreover, his play aside - and I will return to that - he's an asset to us a recruiter and in-room-assistant with Russian players both in the system and on the ice. Buchnevich, Rykov, Shestyorkin, all will benefit from his presence on this team, and in turn the team may also benefit from their presence. Returning to his play, unlike Nathan, Kovalchuk has had a strong track record of performing at a professional level. I agree, his age is an issue to a degree and his stats in the KHL are inflated due to a lesser competition field and/or a shortened season. But with that comes a positive. He hasn't been as banged up as many players in his age group due to the difference in physicality in the KHL, he hasn't played arduously long seasons in the KHL, and yet he has faced decent competition in the KHL to reasonably suggest that he's "still got it". Beyond that, players who've left and returned from the KHL have shown similar success in the form of Radulov and Jagr, the latter of which returned at much later stage in his career from a much more physical period of the sport in general. PLUS, it's a 3 year deal and if you're truly a believer in a rebuild, even if he is awful it costs us nothing but a roster spot and cap room, should he unflippable to another team. So I hope that allows you reconcile my opinions, or at least assists in making it less hard Pete. Have a wonderful night.Sorry to see you waste so much time being argumentative. The package proposed was for Karlsson. I just said I'd rather see those players moved for Dahlin aka someone young. Saying we could get MacKinnon for that was just a sarcastic remark to it being overpayment. So not sure why you felt this was necessary...but OK. My night was also spectacular, BTW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Progrocker Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 Is Kovalchuk really worth 6 mil a year??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunny Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 We pay Staal 5.7 to have an active stick in his own end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 Is Kovalchuk really worth 6 mil a year??? Yes. Radulov, who wasn't the same type of player as Kovalchuk prior to going back to the KHL, came back and has been really, really good. I know he's a couple of years younger than Kovy but I can't see any reason to think Kovy can't come back and be dominant. $6 mil is probably market value for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 We pay Staal 5.7 to have an active stick in his own end. I'm no Staal fan either, Dunny!! LOL But I will bet he has a much better season this coming year now that Mr. Softy has hit the bricks. I used to hate the sight of Staal, but now I find myself in the weird position of actually pulling for the guy to have a "snap-back" kinda year....even if it's just for one more season. I would really like to see him step up and be a real leader and help these kids. It's his turn to return the favor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torontonyr Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 Sorry to see you waste so much time being argumentative. The package proposed was for Karlsson. I just said I'd rather see those players moved for Dahlin aka someone young. Saying we could get MacKinnon for that was just a sarcastic remark to it being overpayment. So not sure why you felt this was necessary...but OK. My night was also spectacular, BTW. I didn't mean to come across argumentative. Quite honestly, I typed this in a few minutes while on the pooper so don't lose any sleep over it :) Just explaining to help you rationalize why I may be opposed to Nathan as opposed to alternative options. And, though your initial statement is that you'd rather get him at equal value, my reply to others was that we'd be buying high (which would require more). Once you needed assistance finding consistency in my logic it seemed like an easy explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 I know Karlsson is a hell of a player but I'm not convinced that he's healthy or ever will be again. His offensive #'s were pretty much on par with previous seasons but the -25, in his case, makes me think he was lacking the dynamic skating ability to get back after going forward. I know this is pretty thin and I didn't watch all that much of him but my feelings about it anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Lothbrok Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 I think we'd be putting ourselves in a serious bind down the road taking on that much salary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThirtyONE Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 I think we'd be putting ourselves in a serious bind down the road taking on that much salary. Yep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 Is Kovalchuk really worth 6 mil a year??? Im ok with it, bit i might rather see Nash return and see if a new coach frees him up and turns him back into a legit scoring threat at 4 or 5 million. Shit. If they swing and miss on Tavares, maybe both Nash and Kovy can be brought in. Fuck it Joe Thornton too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJWantsTheCup Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 I would pass on Karlsson but Tavares and Kovalchuk at the right price I would entertain. Kovalchuk Tavares Namenstikov could be a solid first line with Kreider Zibanajed Buchnevich as the second. Spooner Chytil Zuccarello third. Hayes Andersson Fast fourth. Defense is the problem. Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 Is Kovalchuk really worth 6 mil a year??? For two years, I'll take it! The only question is will he be a mentor for the younger players and he has to be a leader in our locker room as well! Put the A on him Stat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 Don't sign Tavares! That will cost most of our draft picks! We need to rebuild from within, that means drafting well. We are watching to see what Gorton's fishermen will do in the Draft in June! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThirtyONE Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 Don't sign Tavares! That will cost most of our draft picks! We need to rebuild from within, that means drafting well. We are watching to see what Gorton's fishermen will do in the Draft in June! I don't understand this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 I don't understand this Do you know why? Because if we sign him before the draft, that will trade some of our draft picks to the Islanders, and will waste big time money that plunders us into Cap Hell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 Do you know why? Because if we sign him before the draft, that will trade some of our draft picks to the Islanders, and will waste big time money that plunders us into Cap Hell Annnd i don't understand this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 Do you know why? Because if we sign him before the draft, that will trade some of our draft picks to the Islanders, and will waste big time money that plunders us into Cap Hell No, we can't sign him before the draft. We'd have to sign him on July 1, the first day of free agency. Since he's unrestricted, we wouldn't have to forfeit anything to sign him. I think you're referring to restricted free agency where you have to compensate another team for signing a free agent. This isn't the case here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 Annnd i don't understand this. “If you sign Tavares, you lose hayes/Zib/Namestnikov/Spooner now, then you’ll lose another 1 or 2 every few years due to his big contract hit.” Need impact players, and they cost money. I have no issue losing middle 6 forwards for a franchise center Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 No, we can't sign him before the draft. We'd have to sign him on July 1, the first day of free agency. Since he's unrestricted, we wouldn't have to forfeit anything to sign him. I think you're referring to restricted free agency where you have to compensate another team for signing a free agent. This isn't the case here. I'm sorry. What you said was exactly my point, but I took that the wrong way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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