Ranger Lothbrok

Yeah, I'll happily eat crow on this one. I'm sure I could find it in the thread where the Panarin to NY rumors first started, but I was opposed to signing him. I thought the move reeked of desperation and a desire to jump the gun back into contention when we weren't quite ready. Additionally, he didn't meet my somewhat arbitrary standard of being a "too big to fail" type player. The theory is that unless they're so damn good it's impossible to suck, like legendary elite-style players, coming to NY is a death sentence. I also thought his Calder Trophy season was inflated by playing with Kane. Messier, Jagr, Bure, Lindros (albeit to a lesser extent), etc. fell in the "too big to fail" category. Guys like Nash, Drury, Gomez, Richards, etc. fell into the latter category of great players headed for disappointment. I was way, way, WAYYYY off. This guy is sensational. Forget the goals for a second. I think you see everything you need to on his pass to Zibanejad in OT against the Caps for Zib's 5th goal of the game. It almost looks lazy, but he's just that good. You see the briefest of glances over his shoulder, then he calmly drifts to the puck and, without looking, slings it effortlessly on to Zib's stick across the entire neutral zone for a clear breakaway. The guy is just so damn good. He makes it look easy, and he doesn't seem to make mistakes. Very, very happy to have him and can earnestly say he's worth every penny of that contract.

Punishment doesn't fit the crime IMO. He would've only missed two regular season games. Why is he missing two playoff games?

I think Quinn was asked directly if there was any danger of Buch missing the tournament and he said he didn't think we were at that point, or something to that effect. Trying to find a link, but he made it sound like it was precautionary and not serious.

So this was actually the impetus for the thread. The question isn't so much whether you want a 1st overall pick or a Cup. If you told me I would be GUARANTEED a Stanley Cup in exchange for forfeiting all first round picks for the next decade and having an average roster age of 35, I'd do it in a heartbeat. The Cup is the end that justifies all means. This being said, likelihood and probability must be factored into the calculus. This is why I was so opposed to the MSL/Yandle/Staal trades. The "one last piece" myth can really screw you up if you're not as close as you think you are. And we all know losing on purpose isn't really an option here. It's not like the Rangers can choose to mail it in and pray for the draft lottery to go their way. But this is uncharted territory. It's the Wild West of playoffs. There's no raucous Garden crowd, just as there are no blaring airhorns (still convinced that's piped in by the arena, by the way) followed by "Let's go Caps!" There is no home ice advantage, no momentum, and hell, you could even argue that experience is out the window too. Sure, Zdeno Chara knows what it takes to win more than Kakko does. Does that matter as much when literally nothing is the same as it normally is for playoff purposes? The players will be counting on each other to get up for each match. They will feed their own momentum, not the crowd. This is why I don't necessarily agree with the assertion that if we get past Carolina (which is a big "if") we're dead in the water. There's nothing more dangerous than a team that believes in its own magic, and these playoffs were tailor-made for a Cinderella story. In my opinion, younger rosters have the edge here as it won't take them as long to get up to speed. We were one of the hottest teams in the whole league going into the pause. It's not so much a matter of being better than the Bruins as it is a simple question of whether you believe, regardless of opponent, we are capable of winning 19 out of 33 possible games (57.58%). And for a team that I think went on a 16-6 run (I believe) after Shesterkin took over, anything is possible. I think our chances are better now than they will be in even three years when the defense looks drastically different. The question is though, knowing that beating Carolina effectively eliminates the possibility of drafting another franchise player, do you think our chances of winning it all are greater than 12.5%? Shockingly, for me, who has always been a "glass half empty" kind of guy, the answer is yes.

I was thinking the same thing. Jagr had a true MVP season that year. Anyone who transformed a perennial bottom feeder, whose two next best players on offense were Martin Straka and Michael Nylander, into a playoff contender singlehandedly, while shattering a decades old franchise record in the process, deserved the Hart. That said, for some reason the Hart is the one that gets all the buzz and I think carries a tad more prestige, even if it (allegedly) doesn't mean as much to the players.

I'm sure this has been debated in drips and drabs elsewhere, but I wanted to take the temperature of the room. Which would you rather? And before you say that our luck stinks, we never pick first overall, and the chances are too low to justify it, I ask you to consider if our chances of winning a Cup are any better. Do you honestly think we have greater than a 10% chance? I'm aware that the value of playoff experience isn't limited to victory alone, especially for a young roster. But this is not conventional "playoff experience." No sea of 20,000 rabid fans for either team waving white towels, no pressure cooker type atmosphere, etc. For all intents and purposes, these playoffs are not even as stressful as a regular season game. It's basically exhibition or scrimmage, in my opinion. Sure, the intensity will be there on the ice. But we all know whoever captures Lord Stanley's Cup will forever have an asterisk next to their name for the 2019-20 season. Especially if a play-in team wins it all somehow, fans everywhere will cry that the team didn't even technically make the playoffs. Everyone knows my feelings about drafting and building. I always lean toward prospects and picks. This being said, we're not giving up any assets. This isn't a trade for an aging vet, it's a trade of a gamble of something that may or may not, more than likely not, come to pass. Looking at the Blues last year, a bottom feeder for the first half that rode chemistry and a hot rookie goalie to a championship, I would rather we go for it. Believe it or not, I think our chances are better now than they will be when guys like Lundkvist and Miller are on the blueline. The teams that got shafted the worst by the season pause are the hot teams with veteran experience. Boston, out of everyone, is the most disadvantaged by this setup IMO. Their momentum was interrupted, and I think it's going to take older players longer to find their legs. Literally anything can happen. Despite what odds-makers and pundits might say, I think any team has as good of a shot as any other. Everyone has us as a dark horse/sleeper pick. When you look at our roster, the components are there. The weakest spot is the defense, but a hot goalie can cover a lot of that. In that sense, it's good Igor and Buch had a chance to heal. Kreider is back healthy too. We benefited A LOT from the pause, including the chance to only need three more wins to make the playoffs. That would not have been the case in the regular season. If Zib stays hot, if Breadman continues to elevate the whole team, if Igor catches fire, if Kakko gets out of his own head, etc. we could catch a lot of teams off guard. Igor was routinely giving up 3 goals during his crazy run of wins, and we still won. We proved we can outscore almost anybody, and did it against quality teams. Factor in that home ice advantage isn't really a thing this year, and watch out. This being said, my pick to win it all is actually Winnipeg. Side note: did the NHL botch the lottery or what? There's a legit chance of an already great team picking first overall, when a team like Ottawa or Detroit really, really needed it.

Gotta be Draisaitl, right?

Wait in what world is Trotts greater than Renney? (This is a joke obviously, not actually looking to debate the topic lol)

Stupid. Just stupid, especially with the playoff hopes essentially dashed with Igor out.

I was leaning toward keeping him based on his recent production and the push for the playoffs, but I've done a complete 180 on that. First, the prices this year for rentals are ridiculous...it's finally a seller's market. We could likely get a 1st, top prospect, and top 9 roster player. It's just a tremendous missed opportunity for what would likely not be that great of a benefit. I don't think, with our defense, anyone sees us going deep in the playoffs even if we make it. And frankly, "anything could happen" or "you have to go for it every year" are both inadequate to justify the missed opportunity and are the very same lines of thinking that necessitated a full reset in the first place. The Blues are not a model for winning the Stanley Cup, they're an aberration. We cannot justify slim hopes based on, essentially, a team hitting the lottery. They're the exception, not the norm, and our decision-making shouldn't be based on "that could be us this year." Second, we're still in cap crunch mode. Hank and Staal are killing us. If we sign Kreider, it's going to be that much more difficult to keep Zibanejad in two years. I mean, it's going to suck losing one of ADA or Strome as it is. Zib's going to be getting a substantial raise and it would be foolish to jeopardize keeping our #1 center (first one we've had in a long time). Kreider's going to get minimum 5 years. Thanks to the smart drafting and trades, we're going to be in a position to have to pay A LOT of young talent to keep around over the next few years. That's to say nothing of the likely diminishing returns. We'll be looking at that contract in 4 years and saying, "why did we do this again? Did we learn nothing from Staal/Girardi?" We just handed a huge contract to Panarin, which is actually looking like it worked out for once. We also gave a huge contract to Trouba. But we don't have the luxury of continuing to hand out that type of money going forward. Third, and perhaps most importantly, it would effectively signal the end of the rebuild. This would be our first implicit acknowledgment that it's time to start going for it every year again. That premature and impatient thinking is what got us in to this mess. Unless we want another poignant letter to the fanbase after we fall just short of a Cup again, we have to stay the course for now. I will acknowledge that what he brings is NOT easy to replace, if it even is replaceable. I don't know of another player we'd have access to during our upcoming "Cup window" that has his skillset. He's also an elder statesmen in a room of fresh faces and is a leader on this team. That shouldn't be underestimated, but it's not a justification for keeping him; rather, it's a justification for making sure the return in a trade is worth it. The fact of the matter is that we are not witnessing him "finally putting it all together." He's a player with a history that's rife with inconsistency and he's in a contract year. It's just simply not worth it with the opportunity to strike while the iron's hot. I have long been a vocal proponent of selling off aging assets to replenish the farm and manage your cap, instead of paying through the nose to keep them. Much as I hate to lose him (and believe me, I do, he's currently the only active Rangers player's jersey I have), I'm not about to become a hypocrite and abandon the philosophy I've been proselytizing to all and sundry for years over sentiment and pipe-dreaming.

I'm strongly leaning toward keeping Strome. It became apparent in the first few days of this season that losing Hayes left a void. Howden won't be anything more than a third line center in his prime, Lias is toast, and Chytil had been in Hartford and likely still is not ready for full time second line duty. Put simply, our center depth isn't quite what we wanted. Meanwhile, Strome plays up and down the lineup in all situations and does it well. He may be playing himself out of a contract, but if he can be locked down for four years at $5 mil or less, you'd be hard-pressed to find a cheaper utility 2C. It would be nice to be in the lottery again and maybe draft that future 1C, but it doesn't seem to be in the cards this year. As long as Panarin is around though, Strome has value and can produce.

Luis "The Guillotine" Guillorme.

I dislike the "show me" bridge deals in today's NHL. In general, when you're talking about signing younger players, you're just opening yourself up for much higher exposure in two years if the player becomes, ideally, what you want them to be. It virtually guarantees that you'll have to pay the guy market value just when they're hitting their stride. I get why it makes sense here, but I'm still opposed to the concept. I would've preferred 4-5 years to be honest. That being said, is anyone else interested in seeing what this kid can do on a line with Panarin and Zibanejad?

I certainly hope that's not true-ba.

For me, they're the Gardens best kept secret. We kind of insisted on it with the season ticket rep (actually took quite a bit of hassling because at first there were "none available" and then when we freaked out at them about the non-refundable deposit they caved). Have to use the bathroom? Just hop out your seat. Want food/booze? Turn around. Leg room? Check. Elbow room? Check. A place to put your food and booze that's NOT delicately balancing it on your lap? Check. We actually got the seats after the lottery but before the draft. We were expecting to see Kakko but never thought we'd see Panarin and Trouba's first games too.

I'm happy to announce that for the first time since my father passed away in 2012 our family owns season tickets. My brother and I got barstool seats with the counter in front of them for food/booze on the East Balcony, the side the Rangers shoot on twice, to keep the tradition alive in our family. I will definitely be at every preseason game and the home opener. Home opener should be a hell of a night. A lot of guys will be introduced to the Garden faithful for the first time in their careers. Looking forward to welcoming the new faces and the new era.

Sticking with Lias Andersson. I'll acknowledge that it may be my own wishful thinking; I want VERY badly for him to avoid being the next Brendl/Jessiman/McIlrath. Seventh overall is awfully high to take a guy who waffles between the AHL and an NHL fourth line, which is what current performance would dictate. But our European scouting has been sensational in recent years, particularly in the Scandinavian area. The biggest problem for me, at least, is his skating and, in today's league, that's downright fatal. That said, when watching him I see what they were thinking. The potential is there for a complete player. He'll never sniff 80 points, or even 70, but he has the potential to be a way more valuable Stepan. I can't help but feel that with a coach like Quinn and literally every spotlight that was on him now being on Kakko and Krav, he's going to excel. There are no expectations anymore, just a nebulous hope that his career justifies his cost. He's a good kid, a born leader and a hard worker, and I know it's killing him that his career is headed toward being another Rangers draft punchline. I just have this sneaking suspicion that they put Kakko with him to start the season to ease Kakko in on the 3rd or 4th line and then magic strikes. And when I say magic, I don't mean 90 points. I mean 40-50, with 15-20 goals and every indication that there's room for more.

Instantly my new favorite Ranger thanks to that video. I love dog-lovers, and what a hilarious and fun way to get the little guy some exercise.

Inclined to agree a bit with Pete here. Gorton has gotten very, very fortunate for deciding to rebuild during this particular period. It's not every day a #1 D in their mid-20s decides to hold out for a trade. Not every day you win the lottery in the draft where the top 2 players are both franchise players. Not every day a talented young D prospect that's lighting the world on fire makes it publicly known that he'll only come here. Not every day a 27 year old super talent hits the free agency. This being said, somebody previously posted a picture of Gorton's acquisitions and departures in his time here and, frankly, the view from 30,000 feet is impressive. It paints a picture of a strategic plan with master stroke moves. This off-season DRASTICALLY changed the outlook, largely due to luck, but prior to that he was doing an admirable doing something no Rangers GM has ever really committed to in our near-century long history. And you do have to be prepared to strike while the iron is hot and not get beat to the punch while still managing to not get extorted. The return for Hayes was significant because he turned in to Trouba and Lemieux, essentially. My first reaction to that trade was "other teams get these kinds of deals, not us." I mean, when have we ever been on the side of a trade where the world is saying our trade partner got fleeced? Anson Carter for Jagr maybe? Ordinarily we'd be the team that forfeited the 20th pick, Buchnevich, Lias, and Lundkvist, which is why Brooks speculated as to that price. The bottom line is that if you look at the sum total of his moves, it's a truly incredible effort at rebuilding. But let's be clear: there is no "rebuild on the fly" absent the Fox/Trouba/Kakko/Panarin moves. Without this particular off-season, we're just a rebuilding team, not a team trying to do an accelerated rebuild and contend ASAP. Krav and Shesty help, but we always knew at some point they'd be here. He gets all the credit in the world for cashing in on luck when he got it (like he could've come in high on an offer for Trouba or Fox instead of, presumably, low-balling to eventually arrive at a palatable price, could've tried to outsmart scouting services and picked someone other than Kakko, could've outbid the Isles for Panarin's services, etc.) He's stuck to his guns and has been unwavering in the commitment to the rebuild and "doing things the right way," and bucking the trend of the Rangers being the team to extort via both trade and free agency. Some of the moves have been truly terrific (Nash, Grabs, Hayes, McD, Stepan, etc.), and I don't think he's overpaid for anything in his time here. But make no mistake: the fact that both Rangers fans and pundits are talking about us sniffing the playoffs as soon as next season is SOLELY due to this off-season, and this off-season was all luck and "right place, right time." I mean, hell, the biggest move for our future came literally from a lottery. Doesn't get luckier than that. Absent luck, all of us are waiting on Krav to take over as our future franchise forward, praying for someone else to show something offensively in the system (a Buch breakout? Morgan Barron? Andersson/Howden/Chytil taking huge steps forward?) and watching Henrik fade in to obscurity while we await Libor Hajek, K'Andre Miller, Nils Lundkvist, Yegor Rykov, Tarmo Reunanen, Joey Keane to fix the defense in 3-4 years.

Center and defense are still two huge question marks. If Zib gets hurt that's kinda the whole ball game. Most Cup champs in recent years have that game-breaking #1C. Zib is a viable first line center but not a franchise talent by any means. After him, it's kind of a bad spot to be in where you're waiting for someone to earn second line center rights. I think, for me at least, based on a limited showing last season, it's Strome's job to lose for now. Ideally Chytil takes it over with authority by the end of the year, but I'm not comfortable with the status quo currently.

$11 mil seemed high to me, $12 mil is insane if true.

My guess is they also act as a sounding-board for development related questions. Stuff specific to the desire to play in the NHL and make the transition overseas, like what the Rangers are looking for the person to improve on, what the best next actions are (another year in the SEL or come over to the AHL, for example), what can be done to ease language barriers and get set up in the States, etc.

All good points (as are many in this thread). I should clarify: I mentioned in my post that I DO NOT think we should buy in to the Henrik window logic. Bit of a miscommunication there; I am flatly against selling our souls for a last ditch Hail Mary shot at glory for him. Agree 100% that, if such a window ever existed, it's long since closed. Also, I am one of the most adamant supporters of the rebuild. Hell, I was strongly against giving up a first rounder for MSL (or acquiring him in general). I firmly believe that as assets age, we need to be selling them off and constantly repleneshing the system. I agree that the goal is to be competitive for the next decade, not the next two years. The only way to succeed in the cap era is by trading off aging talent once it becomes too expensive and building from within. To be clear: I am firmly against any Yandle/Eric Staal/MSL type trades. Anyone on this board can tell you that I'm a huge proponent of the rebuild. That's why I'm all about trading/shedding Kreider/Shatty/Staal. This being said, all indications are that we plan to get back to winning ASAP (see McKenzie's opinion that we are "looking to get better in a hurry"). The point of this thread is: assuming our goal is to contend as soon as next season, what do you think we're missing? Because I do think that's what we're going for. I agree that our foot should be off the gas pedal in the sense that I'm NOT trading futures for that "one last piece" ever again. That's a fallacy that lands you in hot water. If you have to add your star power at the trade deadline, that's a bad sign. What I don't believe, however, is that we shouldn't be going for it every year. I don't buy in to the idea that we somehow need to "shelter" our younger players by not putting any expectations on them. In fact, I think that's an underestimation of their ability. If they're playing in the NHL they should be trying to win. It just seems silly to me that we would throw away an entire season, possibly two seasons, for the sake of taking it easy. This is the NHL, not a prospect camp or even the AHL. Expectations are a part of the business. If you don't want the fans to be leaning on you to win, you're in the wrong business. I think it's sending entirely the wrong message to plan on, essentially, tanking. In fact, to a certain extent I believe it is counter-productive to let them "get their feet wet" while they "figure things out." You want to push a winning culture, sooner than later. This being said, I'm aware this team has many of the same flaws it had last year and that, if we're being realistic, we need A LOT of things to go right to even sniff at the playoffs. If it's apparent by December that we can't hang with the big boys, I am not in favor of trading Pavel Buchnevich and draft picks to try to remedy that situation. But in terms of adding star power, Panarin is the only option for now without giving anything other than money. Similarly, if Pavelski wants more than three years, which he will, my position is he can take a hike. I'm not trying to mortgage the future. What I am saying though is that recent developments have changed the immediate outlook drastically. Imagine if someone else trades for Adam Fox. Imagine we move down in the draft lottery. Imagine we don't sign Krav and Shesty. Imagine if Philly or NJ beats us to the punch on Trouba (which there was a strong possibility of). At that point, we're having an entirely different conversation. What I'm getting at is that we're poised to take a big step forward depending on how things shake out on July 1st. If we miss out on the big name free agents, so be it, we're no worse off than we were. But if you buy in to the idea that we're trying to contend as soon as possible, which the pundits seem to believe, the point of this thread is: what do you think we need to do it? Free agents cost money, not futures. TL, DR: trying to contend and sticking to the rebuild are not mutually exclusive, in my opinion.

The Trouba trade signaled a shot across the bow to the rest of the league that we don't plan on languishing near the bottom, or tanking, any more than we have to. For the first time in modern league history we struck gold with the lottery, and adding a franchise player in Kakko drastically changes the dynamic moving forward. Picking 6th-8th and nabbing one of the top centers would have been nice, but none of them are ready to play now and none of them are in the same league as Kakko. We all know that in today's NHL, the best defense is a good offense. Puck-moving is no longer a luxury on defense, it's a prerequisite. You need every one of your top 6 to be able to clear the puck out, make that outlet pass and, if they have it in their toolset, even join the rush. To this end, Fox/Trouba/Skjei/ADA are a great start. Coming down the pike at some point are K'Andre Miller, Nils Lundkvist, Yegor Rykov, Tarmo Reunanen, Joey Keane, etc. The forwards likewise took a big step forward over the last year. Zibanejad is for all intents and purposes a #1C, and the roster is filled out with young talent up front like Howden, Chytil, Andersson, Krav (presumably), Kakko, Buchnevich, etc. Kreider may be the odd man out, but if he sticks around that's an even clearer indication that we are going for it. If you buy in to the idea that we're in an arms race with NJ, sadly they're winning. Hischier cancels out Zib, we don't have another center to match Hughes (though Kakko should match the offense to some extent) Subban cancels out Trouba, and so the x-factor is Hall, a league MVP and leading point-scorer that we can't match. And so that leaves the free agency. Artemi Panarin, if we're truly going for it, has become something of a must. That's our best shot at sniffing at a Hall-type talent, and it still falls short. Also in the mix, in my opinion, should be Joe Pavelski. He would drastically alter the dynamic down the middle, plays in all situations, and would be an excellent leader for a team with a lot of young faces. Problem is that when you have to pay those young faces, you can't be handcuffed by Staal-esque contracts. If Pavelski is willing to come on board for 2-3 years (which I doubt he will be), that's a move to strongly consider. There's also the issue of having actual, defensive defensemen. Shatty should go and should be replaced by a cheaper stalwart type. For Staal, it seems like we're simply awaiting retirement to some extent. He rebounded last year but is still a shell of what he once was. The point of this thread? I think we still have a shot at getting Henrik a Cup. I wouldn't buy in to the Henrik-window logic anymore where we mortgage the future because his clock is ticking, but we don't have to watch him fade in to obscurity either. St. Louis showed that you just need to be hot, get some puck luck at the right moments, and play as a unit to win it all. As soon as next season we could be doing the same. What's next, in your opinion? How do you "complete" the rebuild on the fly? In my opinion, if Staal/Kreider/Shatty go, and you add Panarin/Pavelski/#4-#5 defensive defenseman, that's the whole ball game. We're ready to take a shot at it. But those are a lot of big "ifs," and July 1 will be very, very telling (and outcome-determinative).

It looks like all of our "big names" are going to be in attendance: Fox, Krav, Kakko, Lundkvist, Shesty, Rykov, K'Andre, Reunanen, Keane, etc. I'm still just as surprised by the Olof Lindbom pick a year later.