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Game of Thrones (TV Show Discussion Only) *DO NOT POST SPOILERS*


Phil

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It's a small detail, but people pointed put the coats of arms of the Tyrells and Martells in Dany's fleet, so Varys brought more ships to her. Probably the way he bought himself in, as representative of her newest Allies.

 

Also there has certainly been a time jump in this episode, unless you think Jaime came back to KL just days after eating at the Freys, the norther Lords all came together in 1 or 2 days and then there's Arya at the Twins too.

Varys still wansn't totally necessary there of course, but they wanted to show everyone from the Mereen side of things I'd say.

 

Also we can certainly assume the endgame against WW starts now, cause Dany can just streamroll everything Westeros has left. After adding Dorne and the Reach to her side, there's no one left who has the Army to stop her.

 

 

Meanwhile Jaimes fate certainly is to be Queenslayer too.

http://66.media.tumblr.com/0ffe971adcff02e7b75e0609017eeaf7/tumblr_inline_o9evd6G8Ao1t3u8z5_500.gif

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It's a small detail, but people pointed put the coats of arms of the Tyrells and Martells in Dany's fleet, so Varys brought more ships to her. Probably the way he bought himself in, as representative of her newest Allies.

 

Also there has certainly been a time jump in this episode, unless you think Jaime came back to KL just days after eating at the Freys, the norther Lords all came together in 1 or 2 days and then there's Arya at the Twins too.

Varys still wansn't totally necessary there of course, but they wanted to show everyone from the Mereen side of things I'd say.

 

Also we can certainly assume the endgame against WW starts now, cause Dany can just streamroll everything Westeros has left. After adding Dorne and the Reach to her side, there's no one left who has the Army to stop her.

 

 

Meanwhile Jaimes fate certainly is to be Queenslayer too.

http://66.media.tumblr.com/0ffe971adcff02e7b75e0609017eeaf7/tumblr_inline_o9evd6G8Ao1t3u8z5_500.gif

 

She really doesn't have anyone who opposes her either. She just has to defeat the Lannisters and that's really not a hard task.

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Well the ending is said to be "bittersweet", which probably means everyone dies but Dany :P

 

I bet the ending is that Bran goes back and kills whatever Stark it was who was turned into the original White, or goes back even before that, and destroys the Stark lineage and, in turn, the WWs altogether. It would essentially erase everything that we've read and watched, but might turn out to be the only way to stop the WWs. Would be sweet in that, hey, no zombie apocalypse, but bitter in that all the Starks were never even alive.

 

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Exactly.

 

"Daenerys, my name is Lord Varys. I served your father, Aerys II Targaryen, and I'm here to serve you, my Queen. Meet Lady Olenna of House Tyrell and Ellaria Sand of Dorne."

 

I actually didn't mind the magically teleporting Varys. We were unclear when he left Tyrion just what his purpose was. And then when he met with Olenna and the Snakes the idea became more concrete of what was about to happen. But that scene at the end with him on the ship puts a bowtie on the idea that, yet again, Varys is 10 steps ahead of everyone. You see that it was all orchestrated to bring him back to Dany's side with a shitload of allies. And as that was the last scene in the episode, we really have no idea how far down the timeline that was.

 

I felt it was kind of necessary to hammer home the idea of the Tyrell/Targaryen/Martell/Greyjoy alliance. I mean, no offense intended against my friends, but some of them weren't bright enough to put together what was happening until they saw Varys on that ship and saw all the sails with the various house symbols on them. We all watched it together, and my "oh fuck yeah" moment was when Varys walked up to Olenna and the Snakes. Almost everyone else's "oh fuck yeah" moment was when they saw Varys on that ship. Some people just ain't that bright.

 

She really doesn't have anyone who opposes her either. She just has to defeat the Lannisters and that's really not a hard task.

 

See, I'm not sure this is the case. The exposition for next season was too well set up for it to be a cakewalk for Daenerys. How Cersei gets to the throne, the prophecy about her joy turning to ashes in her mouth and her being replaced by someone younger and more beautiful (which she clearly thought was Margaery), and then of course the whole epic ending with the ships on their way. It would be a little silly to have that whole layout and all that expectation just to have arguably the biggest villain in the series get knocked down in next season's opener.

 

I'd like to see a list of the Lannister allies. I mean, discounting Riverrun, the Vale, Highgarden, Dorne and the North houses now sworn to Jon Snow, I'd imagine almost the entirety of the remainder of Westeros is sworn to the Crown. I'm pretty sure that when Cersei calls she can muster up a massive army. In fact, it likely ends up being the case that Daenerys won't be able to defeat Cersei without first obtaining an alliance with the North now too.

 

I bet the ending is that Bran goes back and kills whatever Stark it was who was turned into the original White, or goes back even before that, and destroys the Stark lineage and, in turn, the WWs altogether. It would essentially erase everything that we've read and watched, but might turn out to be the only way to stop the WWs. Would be sweet in that, hey, no zombie apocalypse, but bitter in that all the Starks were never even alive.

 

 

I feel like I missed something. How do we know that the Night King was a Stark? And I think with the whole setup being "A Song of Ice and Fire," and dragonglass/Valyrian steel being the only things that kill the White Walkers, you'd have to imagine that it's dragons and fire that take them down. I think the bittersweet ending is likely the lives lost in doing so. Like you'll probably see Daenerys and Jon Snow kick the bucket and have Tyrion ascend to the throne as the last remaining person of Targaryen descent.

 

 

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

Also, one general discussion topic. We've seen the sort of horrific nature in which the Lord of Light brings people back to life. And we've seen the evil things that the Red Priest/Priestesses do allegedly in service of the Lord of Light. Like Melisandre giving birth to evil shadow babies, or little girls being burned alive at the stake. Yet again, the whole thing is "A Song of Ice and Fire," and any Red Priests/Priestesses we've seen in the show are aware of the problem north of the Wall and supposedly stand in direct opposition to it. Like Beric Dondarrion is riding north to join the forces against the White Walkers, and Melisandre hinted that she'd be needed in the days to come. But it's my belief that on a fundamental level, the whole R'hllor thing is evil. We even have Davos saying it in the last episode. Anyone have any guesses as to how, if at all, that plays in to things? Like if it ends up being a problem that Jon Snow was brought back by the Lord of Light?

 

 

I'm a little miffed at the lack of Genndry and Baby Aegon/Griff. They're both pretty much cut out this series entirely. But another Targaryen running around is a huge fucking deal. Anyone have any speculation what that's about? It seems like a pretty major fucking omission. Is it just a set-up for Tyrion being a Targaryen?

 

 

As for Arya...does she keep working down her list since a girl is clearly Arya Stark? Like has she been given free reign by Jaquen H'gar to seek out vengeance? It seems weird that she'd be allowed to avail herself of the whole changing faces thing without acting in service of the Many-Faced God.

 

And what happens when Bran makes it to Winterfell? Or does he make it to Winterfell? Once he shows up, he's the new Lord of Winterfell by default. And speaking of that, I'm interested to see how the whole Sansa/Littlefinger vs. Jon Snow thing plays out. She clearly wasn't happy about the whole King in the North thing, and Littlefinger is an insidious motherfucker. And I can see it becoming a problem that, while he DOES have Stark blood in his veins, Jon Snow does NOT have the blood of Ned Stark, the former Lord of Winterfell, in him. His claim to the title of Warden of the North is tenuous at best. He's a bastard that wasn't even from the former Lord of Winterfell. Hmmmm....

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You forget that Baratheon Lords have no reason to love Cersei, she just blew up relatives of every Lord in the Crownlands and probably Westerlands too and the Central areas of Westeros have been bleed dry by years of warfare, while Dorne is basically untouched for now.

It was stated very clear that the Lannisters needed the Tyrells very much to remain in controll. That hasn't changed, except now the Tyrells will be in open war against her. So is the equally unbloodied Vale.

I'd say Cersei would be in a very bad situation even without an Army of who knows how many Dothraki + Danys Elite Eunuchs marching towards her. Not to mention 3 dragons.

 

She won't be disposed in Episode 1, but considering it will be a shortened season of 7 episodes. I'd expect her gone by episode 5 or 6 as the latest.

 

Most likely at the hands of Jaime, preventing another Ruler of Westeros from blowing up KL just for giggles.

 

 

Regarding your last spoiler:

 

All hints in the books point hard at Aegon/Griff being a Blackfyre pretender, not a Tragaryen. So he probably got cut, cause his story is a red hering that would bloat the TV series too much. Likewise there's not much point in using Gendry anymore, but maybe he returns with the Brotherhood next season and Arya, Mel and he reunite :P

 

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I feel like I missed something. How do we know that the Night King was a Stark? And I think with the whole setup being "A Song of Ice and Fire," and dragonglass/Valyrian steel being the only things that kill the White Walkers, you'd have to imagine that it's dragons and fire that take them down. I think the bittersweet ending is likely the lives lost in doing so. Like you'll probably see Daenerys and Jon Snow kick the bucket and have Tyrion ascend to the throne as the last remaining person of Targaryen descent.

 

We don't know that for sure, but the ASOIF canon, or at least legend, is that Brandon Stark is the Night's King. There are a few Brandon Stark's - the Builder, the Breaker - so it kind of makes sense to me that these guys are all a version of Bran, in some weird type of time warp, trying to keep the WWs at bay. I think, the logical way to end the entire story, is to eliminate the Stark's altogether...meaning no first WWs, no Night's King and no war.

 

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You forget that Baratheon Lords have no reason to love Cersei, she just blew up relatives of every Lord in the Crownlands and probably Westerlands too and the Central areas of Westeros have been bleed dry by years of warfare, while Dorne is basically untouched for now.

It was stated very clear that the Lannisters needed the Tyrells very much to remain in controll. That hasn't changed, except now the Tyrells will be in open war against her. So is the equally unbloodied Vale.

I'd say Cersei would be in a very bad situation even without an Army of who knows how many Dothraki + Danys Elite Eunuchs marching towards her. Not to mention 3 dragons.

 

She won't be disposed in Episode 1, but considering it will be a shortened season of 7 episodes. I'd expect her gone by episode 5 or 6 as the latest.

 

Most likely at the hands of Jaime, preventing another Ruler of Westeros from blowing up KL just for giggles.

 

 

Regarding your last spoiler:

 

All hints in the books point hard at Aegon/Griff being a Blackfyre pretender, not a Tragaryen. So he probably got cut, cause his story is a red hering that would bloat the TV series too much. Likewise there's not much point in using Gendry anymore, but maybe he returns with the Brotherhood next season and Arya, Mel and he reunite :P

 

Good points all around. I forgot about the Tyrells being mentioned as a crucial alliance for purposes of power. Still, Westeros is a big realm, and they don't say "for all the gold in Casterly Rock" for nothing. I think Cersei's going to be able to rally a competitive force, especially with how bad of a taste the last Targaryen ruler left in everyone's mouths. I can't imagine the general public is going to be thrilled at the proposition of three massive dragons and a hoard of wild Dothraki tearing up the countryside. I'm guessing many are going to see it as a kill or be killed situation.

 

 

I didn't notice the hints about him being a pretender. It seems kind of weird that he'd be dying his hair and traveling with bodyguards on a ruse, but I'm several years removed from reading the books, so I'll admit to ignorance on this point.

 

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Tywin Lannister himself stated in one of the earlier seasons, that the gold mines have run dry long ago. Not to mention the realm has been running on debts heavily under Robert. Cersei decided to ignore that and made the Iron Bank her enemy for it.

The general public doesn't even remember the Mad King at this point, he also was cruel mainly against Lords not smallfolk. It's book knowledge, but some off the smallfolk fondly remember him, which is understandable considering the chaos the 7 Kingdoms fell into.

 

Bottom Line: At this point most people will take their chances on a rightful Targaryen heir, instead of a Lannister ursurper who just blew up the most important Sept in all of Westeros.

 

The North: Lost for Cersei

Iron Islands: Lost and not really relevant anyway, many ships, not enough soldiers.

Vale: Lost

The Reach: Lost

Dorne: Lost

Stormlands: unclear, but probably lost

Riverlands: Lost and ruined anyway

 

She still had the Westerlands, but how the Lords there react to Kevan being blown up is unclear, same with the Crown Lands and their local lords.

 

She will have a force in the end, but nothing that can really challenge a Dothraki Horde with Dragons on open field.

 

 

On another node: Yeah, they better do not pull of any Bran time-travel retconning everything bullshit.

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It?s two more seasons we?re talking about. From pretty close to the beginning, we talked about doing this in 70-75 hours, and that?s what we?ll end up with. Call it 73 for now.

 

We?re trying to tell one cohesive story with a beginning, middle and end. As Dan said, we?ve known the end for quite some time and we?re hurtling towards it. Those last images from the show that aired last night showed that. Daenerys is finally coming back to Westeros; Jon Snow is king of the North and Cersei is sitting on the Iron Throne. And we know the Night King is up there, waiting for all of them. The pieces are on the board now. Some of the pieces have been removed from the board and we are heading toward the end game.

 

The thing that has excited us from the beginning, back to the way we pitched it to HBO is, it?s not supposed to be an ongoing show, where every season it?s trying to figure out new story lines. We wanted it to be one giant story, without padding it out to add an extra 10 hours, or because people are still watching it. We wanted to something where, if people watched it end to end, it would make sense as one continuous story. We?re definitely heading into the end game now.

 

http://io9.gizmodo.com/game-of-thrones-showrunners-confirm-there-are-only-15-e-1782731578?utm_campaign=socialflow_gawker_facebook&utm_source=gawker_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

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Tywin Lannister himself stated in one of the earlier seasons, that the gold mines have run dry long ago. Not to mention the realm has been running on debts heavily under Robert. Cersei decided to ignore that and made the Iron Bank her enemy for it.

The general public doesn't even remember the Mad King at this point, he also was cruel mainly against Lords not smallfolk. It's book knowledge, but some off the smallfolk fondly remember him, which is understandable considering the chaos the 7 Kingdoms fell into.

 

Bottom Line: At this point most people will take their chances on a rightful Targaryen heir, instead of a Lannister ursurper who just blew up the most important Sept in all of Westeros.

 

The North: Lost for Cersei

Iron Islands: Lost and not really relevant anyway, many ships, not enough soldiers.

Vale: Lost

The Reach: Lost

Dorne: Lost

Stormlands: unclear, but probably lost

Riverlands: Lost and ruined anyway

 

She still had the Westerlands, but how the Lords there react to Kevan being blown up is unclear, same with the Crown Lands and their local lords.

 

She will have a force in the end, but nothing that can really challenge a Dothraki Horde with Dragons on open field.

 

 

On another node: Yeah, they better do not pull of any Bran time-travel retconning everything bullshit.

 

True. Laid out in that fashion you're right, I can't see where she's going to get the numbers. I'm just stuck on the storytelling aspect of it where there wouldn't be this whole setup of having them about to clash and have it be totally one-sided. You can never discount the nefarious lengths Cersei will go to in order to win. That's likely what kills her in the end. Probably withdraws to the castle, lures everyone inside King's Landing and tries to blow it up King Aerys style only to have Jaime killer before she can.

 

 

While I'm sad to see the show go, good for them. I like that they're valuing the story over money/ratings. Those who want it really, really fleshed out to the smallest detail can find their satisfaction in the continuation of the written series.

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