Fatfrancesa Posted September 15, 2019 Share Posted September 15, 2019 Also he’s not fighting the cba. He’s fighting for more money which is within his rights afforded him by the cba. It’s within the rangers rights to tell him to fuck off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted September 15, 2019 Share Posted September 15, 2019 I?m not disparaging fox at all. I?m just taking the view of DeAngelo and trying to view it in his shoes. I know how awful. I totally understand people?s thought that he?s hurting himself. However him holding out to get more than peanuts is not an example of the problems that come with him. He is more than is $900k defenseman in this league. He?s more than most of what the rangers put out there at defense. I?m sure the rangrers aren?t taking a player looking out for himself as personal or as him being a negative. Same goes with DeAngelo towards the rangers. It?s the business. He will either get his raise or cave. For fans to negatively bash a player taking responsibility for his life is ridiculous. The money you are talking about here isn?t life changing. He will have to work after hockey if his career ended after this year. The guy views himself as being worth more than a qualifying offer or Brendan lemieux. He?s not wrong. He has no leverage so he?s in a tough spot. The rangers could pay him an extra 500-750k and the situation ends. He could say fuck it, it?s just almost double what I make and play a show me year. Problem is the rangers are in worse shape next year in trying to pay him then. It?s a tough situation all around and he?s the guy left without a chair cap wise. The rangers hand out extra money like candy. It?s hard to find an underpaid ranger. Tony DeAngelo is about to become that rare thing. And the fans reaction is to shut the fuck up and play. And this why nobody wants him. It?s ridiculous. It?s a business and he?s got every right to fight for himself as any other player.you have no idea what the Rangers have offered him to this point beyond the qualifying offer. How do you know they haven't offered him 2 million? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew a Penalty Posted September 15, 2019 Share Posted September 15, 2019 The only other players on elcs that have as much bonus potential is kakko, Kravtsov, and Anderson. Just so happens they are all top 10 picks. Adam Fox was not a first round pick at all. What is also interesting. The rangers have only three top prospects that don’t have bonus clauses. Howden, Hajek, and Rykov. Hmmm how come? Even third and fourth round picks have bonus clauses as long as it was the rangers who signed their elc. Howden a first and Hajek a second round pick got nothing from Tampa? You wonder why they are good? The rangers hand out bonus clauses to every draft pick You realize bonuses are standard practice for almost every team right? And are normally given out to top prospects. Howden and Hajek, despite being good prospects, were never top prospects for Tampa. Rykov was just signed by the Rangers this May. It's not the Rangers fault he didn't negotiate bonuses. Also to make this clear: Bonuses have to be earned. . They're not handing out bonuses, they're handing out opportunities for players to receive them. If players don't meet the qualifications for their bonuses, they don't get them. Chances are they're only making their maximum base salary of $925k. Bonuses are hard to receive they're not guaranteed. If you have a problem with them then take the fight up with the structure CBA. You're arguing against common practice which doesn't relate to DeAngelo's situation at all. He already played on his ELC. He had $400k in potential bonuses on a contract issued to him by Tampa. He had his shot at bonuses just the same as most every player on ELCs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long live the King Posted September 15, 2019 Share Posted September 15, 2019 I?m not disparaging fox at all. I?m just taking the view of DeAngelo and trying to view it in his shoes. I know how awful. I totally understand people?s thought that he?s hurting himself. However him holding out to get more than peanuts is not an example of the problems that come with him. He is more than is $900k defenseman in this league. He?s more than most of what the rangers put out there at defense. I?m sure the rangrers aren?t taking a player looking out for himself as personal or as him being a negative. Same goes with DeAngelo towards the rangers. It?s the business. He will either get his raise or cave. For fans to negatively bash a player taking responsibility for his life is ridiculous. The money you are talking about here isn?t life changing. He will have to work after hockey if his career ended after this year. The guy views himself as being worth more than a qualifying offer or Brendan lemieux. He?s not wrong. He has no leverage so he?s in a tough spot. The rangers could pay him an extra 500-750k and the situation ends. He could say fuck it, it?s just almost double what I make and play a show me year. Problem is the rangers are in worse shape next year in trying to pay him then. It?s a tough situation all around and he?s the guy left without a chair cap wise. The rangers hand out extra money like candy. It?s hard to find an underpaid ranger. Tony DeAngelo is about to become that rare thing. And the fans reaction is to shut the fuck up and play. And this why nobody wants him. It?s ridiculous. It?s a business and he?s got every right to fight for himself as any other player. They are not in worse shape next year. Buyout total next year goes up $4.1M. Namestnikov, Storme, and Beleskey are gone totaling $7.9M. So there alone is $3.8M extra. Fast's contract is also up ($1.8M). We'll see what happens with Kreider ($4.6M). The cap will go up. No one of significance needs to be resigned next summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted September 15, 2019 Share Posted September 15, 2019 I’m not disparaging fox at all. I’m just taking the view of DeAngelo and trying to view it in his shoes. I know how awful. I totally understand people’s thought that he’s hurting himself. However him holding out to get more than peanuts is not an example of the problems that come with him. He is more than is $900k defenseman in this league. He’s more than most of what the rangers put out there at defense. I’m sure the rangrers aren’t taking a player looking out for himself as personal or as him being a negative. Same goes with DeAngelo towards the rangers. It’s the business. He will either get his raise or cave. For fans to negatively bash a player taking responsibility for his life is ridiculous. The money you are talking about here isn’t life changing. He will have to work after hockey if his career ended after this year. The guy views himself as being worth more than a qualifying offer or Brendan lemieux. He’s not wrong. He has no leverage so he’s in a tough spot. The rangers could pay him an extra 500-750k and the situation ends. He could say fuck it, it’s just almost double what I make and play a show me year. Problem is the rangers are in worse shape next year in trying to pay him then. It’s a tough situation all around and he’s the guy left without a chair cap wise. The rangers hand out extra money like candy. It’s hard to find an underpaid ranger. Tony DeAngelo is about to become that rare thing. And the fans reaction is to shut the fuck up and play. And this why nobody wants him. It’s ridiculous. It’s a business and he’s got every right to fight for himself as any other player. You like using this word describing other's points of view when it doesn't fit into line with yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted September 15, 2019 Share Posted September 15, 2019 You like using this word describing other's points of view when it doesn't fit into line with yours. Do I? That’s great. How about addressing my post instead of your issue with me? Are fans not speaking out negatively here about him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYR2711 Posted September 15, 2019 Share Posted September 15, 2019 Do I? That’s great. How about addressing my post instead of your issue with me? Are fans not speaking out negatively here about him? Fans speak negatively about any player who holds out. You don’t think fans were ripping Marner in Toronto for holding out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted September 15, 2019 Share Posted September 15, 2019 you have no idea what the Rangers have offered him to this point beyond the qualifying offer. How do you know they haven't offered him 2 million? Only going on what is being reported that all indications they are offering him the same as lemieux. But fine I don’t know for sure and neither do you. Doesn’t matter though because the larger point here is that the rangers do need him. He shouldn’t just shut up and play because the fans don’t think he has right to ask for more. If he does holdout it certainly hurts him but I’m also arguing it hurts the team which some on here state makes difference. That is my larger point. I’m supposedly the negative one here and all you have issue because I think a current ranger is being undervalued and does have at least some kind of ground on to ask for more. Of course if he’s being offered $2m a year then yes he’s totally Dillusional Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted September 15, 2019 Share Posted September 15, 2019 It's pretty simple; ADA makes the best deal he can right now for this year and bets on himself improving his numbers so either the NYR will sign him long term to a great deal, or some other NHL team will either looks to trade for him or sign him to an offer sheet next season. Or go play in Europe on a flexible contract but probably have everyone stop caring about you. Unless another team looks to bolster their defense at the deadline. And further add to his rep as a problem child, whether that's fair or not. Know a bit about the Milano situation, and even though he's a forward , same kind of thing; American kid who has dreamt of playing int he NHL forever. You only get so many seasons to make your mark in the NHL. ADA if he holds out or goes to Europe is giving up one of them . Milano's relationship to the team and the coach of the CBJ is not good, but the option was Europe. And he sensibly choose to bet on himself and tough it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted September 15, 2019 Share Posted September 15, 2019 No.... They don't need him. He's a "nice to have" Only going on what is being reported that all indications they are offering him the same as lemieux. But fine I don?t know for sure and neither do you. Doesn?t matter though because the larger point here is that the rangers do need him. He shouldn?t just shut up and play because the fans don?t think he has right to ask for more. If he does holdout it certainly hurts him but I?m also arguing it hurts the team which some on here state makes difference. That is my larger point. I?m supposedly the negative one here and all you have issue because I think a current ranger is being undervalued and does have at least some kind of ground on to ask for more. Of course if he?s being offered $2m a year then yes he?s totally Dillusional Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slobberknocker Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 you have no idea what the Rangers have offered him to this point beyond the qualifying offer. How do you know they haven't offered him 2 million? watched JD's presser on msg over the weekend. worth the 20 min. on this topic while JD didn't say what was offered he did say that ADA's camp knows the Rangers position and the Rangers know his. Black and white and the ball is in his court essentially, I'm paraphrasing here. I understand it's a business but believe ADA's best course of action is to sign what the Rangers are offering for a year and get his ass into what's set up to be a very competitive camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThirtyONE Posted September 16, 2019 Author Share Posted September 16, 2019 watched JD's presser on msg over the weekend. worth the 20 min. on this topic while JD didn't say what was offered he did say that ADA's camp knows the Rangers position and the Rangers know his. Black and white and the ball is in his court essentially, I'm paraphrasing here. I understand it's a business but believe ADA's best course of action is to sign what the Rangers are offering for a year and get his ass into what's set up to be a very competitive camp. Exactly right. It's a business and so his contract is such that he has no leverage. If he wants to have leverage next year he should be doing all he can to earn a huge payday in July. His only other option is likely not being in the NHL at all considering all the bridges he's burned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4EverRangerFrank Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 ^This! :clap: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lefty9 Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 watched JD's presser on msg over the weekend. worth the 20 min. on this topic while JD didn't say what was offered he did say that ADA's camp knows the Rangers position and the Rangers know his. Black and white and the ball is in his court essentially, I'm paraphrasing here. I understand it's a business but believe ADA's best course of action is to sign what the Rangers are offering for a year and get his ass into what's set up to be a very competitive camp. Exactly right. It's a business and so his contract is such that he has no leverage. If he wants to have leverage next year he should be doing all he can to earn a huge payday in July. His only other option is likely not being in the NHL at all considering all the bridges he's burned.right on guy's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYR2711 Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 With the way Fox played last night, ADA should be signing today if he is smart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 Exactly right. It's a business and so his contract is such that he has no leverage. If he wants to have leverage next year he should be doing all he can to earn a huge payday in July. His only other option is likely not being in the NHL at all considering all the bridges he's burned. If they're lowballing him now, how would he have any better leverage at the end of this season? He's just going to get lowballed again. More likely, his numbers will decrease because he's not going to get PP time. He has no motivation to play right now, because he has no opportunity to improve his status this year. It's the Rangers who are screwing up, because they're just letting a talented, young asset sit and rot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 No motivation to play? Other than a paycheck and his NHL career.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 No motivation to play? Other than a paycheck and his NHL career.... "Right Now" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 If they're lowballing him now, how would he have any better leverage at the end of this season? He's just going to get lowballed again. More likely, his numbers will decrease because he's not going to get PP time. He has no motivation to play right now, because he has no opportunity to improve his status this year. It's the Rangers who are screwing up, because they're just letting a talented, young asset sit and rot. He played 60 games. Half of which he played well, and the other half not so much. The rest of the season he was benched for one reason or another. They aren't lowballing him. They have offered him a fair 1 year contract to prove himself, especially given he is an RFA without arbitration rights and limited experience. The more time that passes without him signing, the more I see DeAngelo in an unfavorable light. He should have more confidence in his abilities to make the Rangers want to pay him next year, and less ego about what he's proven to this point in his career (which isn't much). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 He played 60 games. Half of which he played well, and the other half not so much. The rest of the season he was benched for one reason or another. They aren't lowballing him. They have offered him a fair 1 year contract to prove himself, especially given he is an RFA without arbitration rights and limited experience. The more time that passes without him signing, the more I see DeAngelo in an unfavorable light. He should have more confidence in his abilities to make the Rangers want to pay him next year, and less ego about what he's proven to this point in his career (which isn't much). A contract lower than some ELCs (including Rykov and Lindgren) for a defenseman who scored 30 points and played 19:00/night is a lowball offer, period. Pionk got $3m and Shatty got $1.75m. How on Earth is $875k a fair offer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 Who said that's the offer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 It’s not. Him having no leverage is the problem. That said a reasonable offer of $1.25-$1.5 should get it done. It’s fair money for the rangers and DeAngelo would still be getting less than he’s worth but with his leverage it’s reasonable to know you’re not getting full value. Any reasonable person would view paying DeAngelo $1.25m as good value. Some will say it’s only $400k why hold out for so little? It’s not little when the starting point is $875k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 A contract lower than some ELCs (including Rykov and Lindgren) for a defenseman who scored 30 points and played 19:00/night is a lowball offer, period. Pionk got $3m and Shatty got $1.75m. How on Earth is $875k a fair offer? Would like to think with the talent on hand, ADA would not be expected to play that much this season. Remember arguably one of your top 4 Shatty was always hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 Who said that's the offer? https://nypost.com/2019/09/12/rangers-and-tony-deangelo-seeking-contract-solution-to-avoid-holdout/ No, we don't know that they didn't offer $2m, but we can only go by what's out there. JD straight up said they weren't moving so it's doubtful that NYR has more than doubled their offer in the last 7 days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 Would like to think with the talent on hand, ADA would not be expected to play that much this season. Remember arguably one of your top 4 Shatty was always hurt. Shatty missed like 5 games to injury last year, ADA was just way better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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