ThirtyONE Posted September 9, 2019 Posted September 9, 2019 "If Two Players Hold Out But No One Cares, Did They They Really Hold Out At All?" That was gonna be the original headline. Simply put, the Rangers don't have cap space to give them more money. They don't have negotiation power to get more money. So the easiest solution for everyone is that they just sign their QO and prove they're worth keeping around. I love Lemieux's game but not at the expense of anyone else and DeAngelo's long term future in NY is about as tenuous as you can get. He could be replaced by Miller as soon as next year. His role as the "offensive dman" was already supplanted by Fox for this season. Missing games this season will hurt DeAngelo more than it will Lemieux, but from my perspective, it won't hurt the Rangers at all. So the boys should just bite the bullet, sign on the dotted line and try to make their next contract a big one. Otherwise, I could see someone like DeAngelo being forced to start his European career early.
Phil Posted September 9, 2019 Posted September 9, 2019 They can hold out all they like. There's literally no incentive to get either of them signed, so the only thing they're doing is losing potential paychecks before eventually giving in to the fact that there are finite dollars available to the two of them.
BlairBettsBlocksEverything Posted September 9, 2019 Posted September 9, 2019 we just have to be cap compliant once camp starts right? Currently (according to capgeek) we have $1 million in cap space so once camp starts, can't we right away, demote Belesky and McKegg (who they currently count against our cap) and make enough room for both of them to sign?
Dunny Posted September 9, 2019 Posted September 9, 2019 The incentive is having them in the lineup, and not a bunch of garbage roster filler, which looks to be the other option. All depends on what they're holding out for, really. We don't know.
Phil Posted September 9, 2019 Posted September 9, 2019 we just have to be cap compliant once camp starts right? Currently (according to capgeek) we have $1 million in cap space so once camp starts, can't we right away, demote Belesky and McKegg (who they currently count against our cap) and make enough room for both of them to sign? Yes. But the numbers are still finite. It's why most projections effectively condemn Smith before he's even had a chance to play.
ThirtyONE Posted September 9, 2019 Author Posted September 9, 2019 The incentive is having them in the lineup, and not a bunch of garbage roster filler, which looks to be the other option. All depends on what they're holding out for, really. We don't know. Garbage? I dunno about that. Lesser players? Probably. But not garbage. I like both players and I like the bite they bring a lot. But I can't imagine they're asking for that much more than their QO at this point. Is it really worth missing camp for? They should sign and then be resigned once we figure out what's happening with Kreider, Names, Fast, etc. later in the season. They can get paid, now is just not the time.
josh Posted September 9, 2019 Posted September 9, 2019 They can hold out all they like. There's literally no incentive to get either of them signed, so the only thing they're doing is losing potential paychecks before eventually giving in to the fact that there are finite dollars available to the two of them. I think there is incentive in having them there, to see how they will fit in with this group moving forward past this season. This is still a feeling out process for the coach, and which players will be contributing players moving into the future of this team. While they are missing pay checks, they/the team is missing valuable bonding time which is necessary for young teams coming together, working together, and growing together.
Pete Posted September 9, 2019 Posted September 9, 2019 ADA is the real "loss", mitigated by Trouba and Fox. Lemieux is purely entertainment. He's easily replaced by any competent player.
BlairBettsBlocksEverything Posted September 9, 2019 Posted September 9, 2019 Yes. But the numbers are still finite. It's why most projections effectively condemn Smith before he's even had a chance to play. yeah but in terms of this topic, for signing these guys, isn't it an easy fix? Like, if they have to technically miss the first day of camp, and we immediately demote whatever cap casualties we have left, can't we instantly sign them?
josh Posted September 9, 2019 Posted September 9, 2019 ADA is the real "loss", mitigated by Trouba and Fox. Lemieux is purely entertainment. He's easily replaced by any competent player. Honestly, I dont think we know what we have with either, at this point. They could be vital players moving forward. Or, easily replaceable. This season will tell, and I'd like to see them both around and get a chance to prove they want, and deserve, to be here when this team is successful.
ThirtyONE Posted September 9, 2019 Author Posted September 9, 2019 Honestly, I dont think we know what we have with either, at this point. They could be vital players moving forward. Or, easily replaceable. This season will tell, and I'd like to see them both around and get a chance to prove they want, and deserve, to be here when this team is successful. Agreed. That said, it's not the Rangers decision to make. Hopefully they're both a part of the team from the start.
Dunny Posted September 9, 2019 Posted September 9, 2019 The process is just really flawed. Why can't they just go to arbitration?
Pete Posted September 9, 2019 Posted September 9, 2019 Because that comes with tenure. Neither has earned anything.
Costa Posted September 9, 2019 Posted September 9, 2019 Chances are once Smith and Beleskey are waived and sent down to the A, 2.15 mil in cap space will be freed up and they will get signed toot suite.
ThirtyONE Posted September 9, 2019 Author Posted September 9, 2019 Chances are once Smith and Beleskey are waived and sent down to the A, 2.15 mil in cap space will be freed up and they will get signed toot suite. I saw a tweet that Lemiuex was at informal practices. No mention of DeAngleo though.
Phil Posted September 9, 2019 Posted September 9, 2019 I think there is incentive in having them there, to see how they will fit in with this group moving forward past this season. This is still a feeling out process for the coach, and which players will be contributing players moving into the future of this team. While they are missing pay checks, they/the team is missing valuable bonding time which is necessary for young teams coming together, working together, and growing together. What I'm saying is that the Rangers aren't pressed to make this happen, so if both of their camps choose to hold out, the Rangers will wait, qualifying offer in hand. When they're ready to sign for QO value (give or take), they'll be welcomed back. The dollars literally don't exist to do anything else, and both of their agent's know this. So, they can either sign, wait and hope a trade frees more room, or watch from home. yeah but in terms of this topic, for signing these guys, isn't it an easy fix? Like, if they have to technically miss the first day of camp, and we immediately demote whatever cap casualties we have left, can't we instantly sign them? It all depends on who makes the team and who doesn't. But almost every roster projection leaves very little room left for the two of them.
CBrowningPI Posted September 9, 2019 Posted September 9, 2019 Chances are once Smith and Beleskey are waived and sent down to the A, 2.15 mil in cap space will be freed up and they will get signed toot suite.Vinny Letteri: " Shit "
LindG1000 Posted September 9, 2019 Posted September 9, 2019 I mean, does it really hurt us if Lettieri and Lindgren make this team because these two don't sign?
Phil Posted September 9, 2019 Posted September 9, 2019 I mean, does it really hurt us if Lettieri and Lindgren make this team because these two don't sign? Probably, because I'm not sure either is an NHLer, but relatively speaking, I get your point.
Pete Posted September 9, 2019 Posted September 9, 2019 What makes Lindgren not an NHLer? He was fine in a small sample size.
Phil Posted September 9, 2019 Posted September 9, 2019 I didn't say he wasn't, I said I'm not sure he is. Haven't really seen enough of him yet, and what I did see and read about from Hartford wasn't glorious either ? the Pack being a flaming tire fire notwithstanding. He's a good skater, which might be all he really needs to make the jump, but it's odd that someone with his skill set isn't able to put up more points at lower levels. Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk
Pete Posted September 9, 2019 Posted September 9, 2019 I didn't say he wasn't, I said I'm not sure he is. Haven't really seen enough of him yet, and what I did see and read about from Hartford wasn't glorious either ? the Pack being a flaming tire fire notwithstanding. He's a good skater, which might be all he really needs to make the jump, but it's odd that someone with his skill set isn't able to put up more points at lower levels. Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk I didn't say he wasn't, I said I'm not sure he is. OK, and that's why I asked what makes him not lol. Jeez. Anyways... Haven't really seen enough of him yet, and what I did see and read about from Hartford wasn't glorious either ? the Pack being a flaming tire fire notwithstanding. He's a good skater, which might be all he really needs to make the jump, but it's odd that someone with his skill set isn't able to put up more points at lower levels. Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Lindgren, at worst, is a 7th based on his skating and physical play, IMO. Regardless what he did in the A... In the NHL he didn't seem to struggle ... on a bad team.
josh Posted September 10, 2019 Posted September 10, 2019 What I'm saying is that the Rangers aren't pressed to make this happen, so if both of their camps choose to hold out, the Rangers will wait, qualifying offer in hand. When they're ready to sign for QO value (give or take), they'll be welcomed back. The dollars literally don't exist to do anything else, and both of their agent's know this. So, they can either sign, wait and hope a trade frees more room, or watch from home. It all depends on who makes the team and who doesn't. But almost every roster projection leaves very little room left for the two of them. I understand and don’t conpletely disagree with what you said. Ultimately, it would be more beneficial for both guys to be there and grow with the team. And the team would benefit from both of the guys being there to work and develop with the team. With so much change and turnover, it’s more important than Han ever to be there as much as possible.
josh Posted September 10, 2019 Posted September 10, 2019 Say they hold out for a month, replaced by scrubs, and the team suffers. Then they come back, and it takes a month for them to adjust and be useful - thats another blown month. When you have this many guys developing, the games count. You need those role players and energy guys that we saw in these 2 at the end of last season.
Pete Posted September 10, 2019 Posted September 10, 2019 Say they hold out for a month, replaced by scrubs, and the team suffers. Then they come back, and it takes a month for them to adjust and be useful - thats another blown month. When you have this many guys developing, the games count. You need those role players and energy guys that we saw in these 2 at the end of last season.But really, big deal? It's 2 months into a learning season anyway. The only people who won't be learning as them.
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