2023-24 Training Camp Thread

[RangersIn7]

Final roster released yet?

 

If not, anyone know when???

[Scott]

8 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said:

Final roster released yet?

 

If not, anyone know when???

 

[The Dude]

1 hour ago, Cash or Czech said:

 

I stopped reading here. Gustafsson had 42 points last season. He was able to step up and run the Caps PP1 when Carlson got hurt. Zac Jones has 8 career NHL points. We are not here to develop talent. As pissed as you are that Laf doesn't produce in third line minutes, you want Jones given a bigger role to see what he's got based on previous performance of...what exactly?

Cool story. Gustafsson averaged 20+ minutes and got a ton of PP time. He's not getting that here and to expect similar production from him shows that you miss the point.

 

He gets decent point totals when he gets top minutes. Such players typically can't reproduce their points output in a reduced role. He's averaged like 19 minutes a game fir his career. He's on a 3rd pairing and will be lucky to get 15. 

 

It's not like you can pro-rate his production by saying he got 40 points with 20 minutes last year, so we should expect 30 points with the 15 minutes he's going to get on the 3rd pair. 

 

Atleast Jones can learn on the job. 

This "we are not here to develop talent " is a tired phrase. Why is Cuylle on the roster then? Why are the trying to give Lafrenière more opportunities to succeed? It's called development. It's not like half the team has to be developed. This take is old and really has zero truth to it. This coaching staff is here to do both develop and to win. 

[Long live the King]

11 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Cool story. Gustafsson averaged 20+ minutes and got a ton of PP time. He's not getting that here and to expect similar production from him shows that you miss the point.

 

He gets decent point totals when he gets top minutes. Such players typically can't reproduce their points output in a reduced role. He's averaged like 19 minutes a game fir his career. He's on a 3rd pairing and will be lucky to get 15. 

 

It's not like you can pro-rate his production by saying he got 40 points with 20 minutes last year, so we should expect 30 points with the 15 minutes he's going to get on the 3rd pair. 

 

Atleast Jones can learn on the job. 

This "we are not here to develop talent " is a tired phrase. Why is Cuylle on the roster then? Why are the trying to give Lafrenière more opportunities to succeed? It's called development. It's not like half the team has to be developed. This take is old and really has zero truth to it. This coaching staff is here to do both develop and to win. 

 

It's pretty simple.  Cuylle earned a spot with his play.  Jones hasn't. 

[Scott]

6 minutes ago, Long live the King said:

 

It's pretty simple.  Cuylle earned a spot with his play.  Jones hasn't. 

[The Dude]

1 hour ago, Long live the King said:

 

It's pretty simple.  Cuylle earned a spot with his play.  Jones hasn't. 

The competition was vastly different. Don't ya think? 

 

Annnnnd Jones made the team,  so....?

Edited October 8, 2023 by The Dude

[Cash or Czech]

2 hours ago, The Dude said:

Cool story. Gustafsson averaged 20+ minutes and got a ton of PP time. He's not getting that here and to expect similar production from him shows that you miss the point.

 

He gets decent point totals when he gets top minutes. Such players typically can't reproduce their points output in a reduced role. He's averaged like 19 minutes a game fir his career. He's on a 3rd pairing and will be lucky to get 15. 

 

It's not like you can pro-rate his production by saying he got 40 points with 20 minutes last year, so we should expect 30 points with the 15 minutes he's going to get on the 3rd pair. 

 

Atleast Jones can learn on the job. 

This "we are not here to develop talent " is a tired phrase. Why is Cuylle on the roster then? Why are the trying to give Lafrenière more opportunities to succeed? It's called development. It's not like half the team has to be developed. This take is old and really has zero truth to it. This coaching staff is here to do both develop and to win. 

 

Cuylle didn't earn a spot to so we can develop him. He earned a spot based on his performance in camp and the thought that he can provide the grit and scoring touch that Lav wants from a bottom-6 player.

 

Lafreniere is being given more opportunities to succeed because despite the 1OA pedigree and lack of production compared to his peers in that draft spot, he has scored 32 even strength goals over the last two seasons, ranking third on the team behind Kreider, Panarin, and ahead of Zibanejad. There's a player in there somewhere and the team thinks with increased role, he can provide increased production. We aren't seeing it on the ice yet with his play, but the production indicates he can fill a role that otherwise we do not have a good fit for.

 

Jones made the team out of camp last season IIRC and he put up 2 points in 16 games. He has 8 points in 38 NHL games like I said. He got supplanted by Ben fucking Harpur. He isn't an improvement on the ice versus anything else we have.

Edited October 8, 2023 by Cash or Czech

[Long live the King]

1 hour ago, The Dude said:

The competition was vastly different. Don't ya think? 

 

Annnnnd Jones made the team,  so....?

 

Was the competition different?  You just got done telling us how Guss sucks.

 

Jones made the team as the 7th D because he won't clear waivers.  They should have better luck trading him than Hajek though because Hajek sucks.

[The Dude]

4 hours ago, Long live the King said:

 

Was the competition different?  You just got done telling us how Guss sucks.

 

 

I did?

 

Where?

 

I said he's a plug. He is. He's on a league minimum 1 year contract. Are you thinking this guy is a long term plan? 

 

He's looked really good in preseason when getting quality minutes. I don't recall saying he sucks. Infact I complimented him.

 

But yeah ..   go on, show me where I said Gustafsson sucks. 

 

I promise I'm done on the subject. It's not that important to me to go back and forth about. I should have stopped earlier. 

[RJWantsTheCup]

Cuylle practicing at 2nd line RW.

Lafraniere 3rd line LW.

[Kevin]

On 10/8/2023 at 8:49 AM, siddious said:

I think you can get a 2nd rounder for him 

Really? I think most teams probably view him like we do at this point: too good for the AHL, not good enough to make a difference in the NHL. I’d be shocked if teams would offer a 4th for him.

[Pete]

18 minutes ago, Kevin said:

Really? I think most teams probably view him like we do at this point: too good for the AHL, not good enough to make a difference in the NHL. I’d be shocked if teams would offer a 4th for him.

I think he's good enough to make a difference, on a team that can give him a role. He was a 3rd rounder, so I think you can probably get a 2nd/3rd back.

[siddious]

43 minutes ago, Kevin said:

Really? I think most teams probably view him like we do at this point: too good for the AHL, not good enough to make a difference in the NHL. I’d be shocked if teams would offer a 4th for him.

 

24 minutes ago, Pete said:

I think he's good enough to make a difference, on a team that can give him a role. He was a 3rd rounder, so I think you can probably get a 2nd/3rd back.

^ this

[jsm7302]

Jones has a Nils Lundkvist feel to him. Might make a bottom pair somewhere but it wont be here. Best this kid can do is ask for a trade 

[Scott]

1 hour ago, Kevin said:

Really? I think most teams probably view him like we do at this point: too good for the AHL, not good enough to make a difference in the NHL. I’d be shocked if teams would offer a 4th for him.

I'm going with a 3rd at best, he was a 3rd himself who's done little to nothing to force his way onto the roster and has consistently been looked at as a guy who can and should be upgraded since he's been here.  

[Pete]

13 minutes ago, jsrangers said:

I'm going with a 3rd at best, he was a 3rd himself who's done little to nothing to force his way onto the roster and has consistently been looked at as a guy who can and should be upgraded since he's been here.  

I'm not really sure this is an accurate read on him. He wasn't going to displace Fox on the power play, or Miller for that matter.

 

This is the reason you develop prospects. You either play them, or in the event that you have no role for them, you can flip them to address a need or for futures.

 

He was a third rounder, he's now developed, so if somebody wants to trade a third rounder or a second rounder for a third rounder who is already here and could probably step into an NHL lineup with a room to grow... There you go. 

Edited October 9, 2023 by Pete

[Scott]

9 minutes ago, Pete said:

I'm not really sure this is an accurate read on him. He wasn't going to displace Fox on the power play, or Miller for that matter.

 

This is the reason you develop prospects. You either play them, or in the event that you have no role for them, you can flip them to address a need or for futures.

 

He was a third rounder, he's now developed, so if somebody wants to trade a third rounder or a second rounder for a third rounder who is already here and could probably step into an NHL lineup with a room to grow... There you go. 

Maybe. I'm not totally convinced what he's developed into in his limited NHL time with not much to show for in that time. He's done well in the AHL, that doesn't always guarantee much of anything at the next level. Maybe it will for Jones, barring injuries I don't think he'll see a real chance here. So I agree you move a guy like that to fill a need because he's likely not a fit here. If you can pull a 2nd rd pick great, I would be pleasantly surprised.