Mike Babcock Resigns as Blue Jackets Coach Amid Investigation Involving Players’ Photos

[The Dude]

8 hours ago, RangersIn7 said:

To be perfectly honest, what he actually did in specifics is immaterial. His actual intentions are immaterial as well. 

 

He had to know that he’d be under scrutiny and that players would be coming in from the outset with at least some apprehension about him.

So he couldn’t do anything in terms of tactics that were questionable or that might make anyone feel uncomfortable in the least.

 

 

And then he did. 
That’s as far as you need to go. 
Cause that’s the ballgame. 
 

Also, if he did in fact possess someone’s device and go through it privately, that’s really messed up. 

Odd. I feel like intent is everything. Not sure how some of you are saying it's irrelevant.  

 

It's everything. 

[The Dude]

6 hours ago, jsm7302 said:

What makes you lean that way? It isn't his history. I'm not sure how you can come to that conclusion.

Because some people can change and adapt. We give prison inmates fresh starts and the benefit of the doubt.  But not asshole, mean hockey coaches? 

 

And, well... that's what Babcock,  the GM the President and 2 veteran players (that had the sack to go on record ) said it was. 

 

The nameless hide behind their words and got the guy removed without any provided detail about the scenario.  Just kinda left it for people to run with and make up their own stories.  Like he ran away to a non team facility  with a players phone as seen in this thread. 

 

I'll go with the people who are willing to put their name out there and attach it to their account of the interaction with the coach.  

[The Dude]

5 hours ago, RangersIn7 said:

Yeah

And that’s what I think happened.

 

Listen, frame it all properly.

 

Its an organizational failure.

 

I am not a Babcock fan.

Before all of this, and clearly indeed after, he SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN HIRED!

 

 

He is a good coach with a very successful career, but he’s employed very harsh and at times downright inappropriate tactics in terms of dealing with his team and players.

He got fired for it in Toronto 5 years ago. And he’s now 60. 
He should not have been brought back.

Not because he’s a horrible human, or some extreme deviant or psychologically dangerous person, which I don’t think he is.

He’s just a guy who employs methods and a mindset that can’t work now.

 

Again, obvious 5 years ago.

 

And much more came to light since.

 

And he hasn’t actually coached anyone in a meaningful way in 5 years. 

Ok.

5 years pass.

He says he’s changed. There’s maybe something to support that claim.

They hired him.

It was a risk.

While I’m sure they did their due diligence, they clearly ignored it and downplayed some issues.

There’s gonna be apprehension from players.

He’s gonna be under scrutiny.

 

Now… going in…if you seriously bring him back…,

Everyone in authority in that organization, mostly the ownership group, JD as Team President, Jarmo as GM, Babcock himself as HC, plus his assistants, numerous other team officials at the management level and above, and even the veteran players on the team, have all got to know he needs to be very measured and careful in his approach to his players. 
 

If a guy needs to be watched that closely, you can’t hire him. Period.

Not as a HC.

If he were looking for an assistant job, under the right HC, and they wanted to do that… that’s at least something to consider.

 

He does this thing.

Its a thing that is questionable and potentially explosive cause if even one player is uncomfortable, it’s a big deal.

And his players are walking in with reservations or apprehension or reluctance or even downright hostile feelings or almost unwillingness to play for him.

 

And he employs a poorly conceived approach in a bad way. And executes it poorly to boot.

Not because he’s evil.

But because he’s passé and out of touch.

Which he proved 5 years ago and that was ignored with not too much to say it had changed.

 

 

My feeling is that this management knew the risks and should have went to bat for the guy they hired. 

 

In reading JDs reaction,  it sounds like he's saying "ah well kids today... they are our future,  so we have to take their feelings into account,  because if I say otherwise,  I'm a Mike Babcock clone". 

 

They knew the risk and they folded on something that (to me) is a very big over reaction.  Have some balls and go to bat for the guy. It makes you look weak and powerless as president of the team. 

 

I love JD and thought the guy would command a lot of respect.  He's been shit out of 3 organizations and came crawling back to Columbus to just get stepped on again.  Maybe he should go back to broadcasting.  

[The Dude]

6 hours ago, Keirik said:

For anyone that wants to hear Spittin Chicklets most recent take on it. Looks like it starts around 13 minutes

 

 

Sounds like a couple of guys that are saying they didn't try to get another guy fired, but aren't sorry they did, because they absolutely hate him. So... yeah.   they did.

 

I'm not buying this crap. If this is a thing he's always done (with the phones), wouldn't the word spread to be ready for it? They act like they are protecting these nameless sources and know it's a hole in their reputation. They get a little extra pissy when they bring up people questioning why these sources won't step into the light. As if Mike Babcock has any pull to black list players who would come out against him. 

 

IDK, these guys are just douchey and I don't find them entertaining anymore. It's been a couple years since I have.

 

Maybe it's all true. I'll wait for a reputable source to look more professionally into it. 

[The Dude]

5 hours ago, BlairBettsBlocksEverything said:

it doesn't matter what they 'have to hide'

 

what if its personal stuff? what if they sent something political to a friend and the coach doesn't agree with them and will base their opinion of the player on non-hockey related stuff? All the info that's already come out about it, it's become ovewhelmingly clear that this was not just a casual 'let me get to know your family' nor was it 'I'm trying to see if there's anything i need to know that you might have gotten into this summer'    if there was one player who may have done something illegal/wrong in the offseason, its not the coaches job to just pull him in and get your phone. That's a job for upper management/lawyers and only if they had some kind of suspicion that there was any wrongdoing they need to be aware of. And even then, its not their job unless it was something improper done on team time/property

 

 

Again.  I don't get why political views or whatever need to be so private.

 

I get the banking stuff like Phil mentioned, but such things require passwords. As would health stuff. I mean are we thinking stupid Babcock knows how to crack passwords? 

 

As for what's out. It's very conflicting.  Babcock,  the GM, the president and 2 veteran players are on the record with their names as saying that it was about getting to know the players.

 

Yet, nameless voices from the shadows are saying it was this demented whack job that hasn't learned his lesson. Voices that have been in contact with the SC podcast hosts who revert to more nameless voices from the shadows as they admittedly really really hate the guy. 

[siddious]

The nhlpa is pretty reputable 

[Scott]

According to JD's we fucked up presser the league was a part of the investigation are we completely disregarding them along with the team and the NHLPA in determining there was no way forward with this guy? All 3?  

 

What reputable source are you waiting on?

 

I agree with you on Chicklets guys and I don't think the players going to them was the right way to go about it.

[siddious]

2 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Again.  I don't get why political views or whatever need to be so private.

 

I get the banking stuff like Phil mentioned, but such things require passwords. As would health stuff. I mean are we thinking stupid Babcock knows how to crack passwords? 

 

As for what's out. It's very conflicting.  Babcock,  the GM, the president and 2 veteran players are on the record with their names as saying that it was about getting to know the players.

 

Yet, nameless voices from the shadows are saying it was this demented whack job that hasn't learned his lesson. Voices that have been in contact with the SC podcast hosts who revert to more nameless voices from the shadows as they admittedly really really hate the guy. 

Post the last 20 pics in your photos reel and while you’re at it I’d love a transcript of the last couple Text convos too.

 

Don’t worry my motive is good

[Keirik]

18 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Sounds like a couple of guys that are saying they didn't try to get another guy fired, but aren't sorry they did, because they absolutely hate him. So... yeah.   they did.

 

I'm not buying this crap. If this is a thing he's always done (with the phones), wouldn't the word spread to be ready for it? They act like they are protecting these nameless sources and know it's a hole in their reputation. They get a little extra pissy when they bring up people questioning why these sources won't step into the light. As if Mike Babcock has any pull to black list players who would come out against him. 

 

IDK, these guys are just douchey and I don't find them entertaining anymore. It's been a couple years since I have.

 

Maybe it's all true. I'll wait for a reputable source to look more professionally into it. 

That part is a pretty good point. Like I said in my line of work, they go through all your crap during the hiring process. I’ve warned countless people that have told me “oh, I just got called for X county in Long Island.”  I’ve literally told people to scrub their whole social media, hide every bad pic they have in your phone, and hell, even delete old texts. Not everyone has it happen, but many do or used to at least. 

[Keirik]

4 minutes ago, siddious said:

Post the last 20 pics in your photos reel and while you’re at it I’d love a transcript of the last couple Text convos too.

 

Don’t worry my motive is good

I’ll do it, but I’m texting you some real weird shit first 

[siddious]

Just now, Keirik said:

I’ll do it, but I’m texting you some real weird shit first 

Don’t you always?

[Scott]

@Keirik but even today LE is still kind of the exception how many other jobs do you have to go for a psychiatric eval as a part of the hiring process? I know in the corp world, very very little to none.

 

As for sharing here you go:

 

Edited September 20, 2023 by jsrangers

[The Dude]

11 minutes ago, siddious said:

Post the last 20 pics in your photos reel and while you’re at it I’d love a transcript of the last couple Text convos too.

 

Don’t worry my motive is good

I'll do it. But what does this prove? 

 

[The Dude]

26 minutes ago, jsrangers said:

According to JD's we fucked up presser the league was a part of the investigation are we completely disregarding them along with the team and the NHLPA in determining there was no way forward with this guy? All 3?  

 

What reputable source are you waiting on?

 

I agree with you on Chicklets guys and I don't think the players going to them was the right way to go about it.

I have no idea what you're saying about JD.  

 

Reputable source I'm waiting on is a player with a name saying what his account is of what happened.  As well as the unnamed person Bissonnette claims called him about Babcock and his phone stuff being something he has always done. I don't want to back track and I could be wrong,  but I think Bissonnette said this person that called him wanted to talk with the "uncomfortable " players..  

[The Dude]

33 minutes ago, siddious said:

The nhlpa is pretty reputable 

The NHLPA didn't recommend firing someone. They claim a couple of players weren't comfortable with the interaction. Nothing more. Nothing less. They didn't give detail on what made them uncomfortable. They didn't make any recommendations for any sort of fine/suspension. So, that doesn't seem like it was something horrific. Just "uncomfortable"  

 

 

[siddious]

8 minutes ago, The Dude said:

I'll do it. But what does this prove? 

 

I don’t even know where to begin lol

[The Dude]

13 minutes ago, siddious said:

I don’t even know where to begin lol

And I'm pretty confident 60+ year old  Mike Babcock wouldn't either. 

 

What does this prove?  

 

 

You see that double rainbow in there?  Blumpkin on a pumpkin? You think that 2" grooved cap shows signs that the antifreeze loop at Gabes may be effecting the couplings as they all show signs of leakage and odd discoloration?  Do you think Horse chestnut can help hemorrhoids?  That Oglethorpe tee is bad ass, but not as bad ass as those K Swiss sneakers on that clearance table.  Man I hope I win that Gas monkey TRX.

 

Ughhh. I'm SO UNCOMFORTABLE!!

 

Siddious should be fired. He asked to see my pictures!!

Edited September 20, 2023 by The Dude

[Keirik]

26 minutes ago, The Dude said:

I'll do it. But what does this prove? 

 

It proves that ginger ale is on fucking sale boys!  Let’s gooooooo

[siddious]

7 minutes ago, The Dude said:

And I'm pretty confident 60+ year old  Mike Babcock wouldn't either. 

 

What does this prove?  

 

 

You see that double rainbow in there?  Blumpkin on a pumpkin? You think that 2" grooved cap shows signs that the antifreeze loop at Gabes may be effecting the couplings as they all show signs of leakage and odd discoloration?  Do you think Horse chestnut can help hemorrhoids?  That Oglethorpe tee is bad ass, but not as bad ass as those K Swiss sneakers on that clearance table.  

 

Ughhh. I'm SO UNCOMFORTABLE!!

 

Siddious should be fired. He asked to see my pictures!!

See the difference is you had the option to delete/hide stuff before you posted. You also didn’t show me your messages (don’t post them I don’t actually want to see them). 
 

i still don’t get why you think it would be acceptable for a supervisor to make this request. 
 

i don’t know your age but I’m going to guess older than me (36)? Maybe it’s a generational thing but to people my age and younger this is akin to reading our diary. 
 

Edit: also hope those hemeroids cleared up 

Edited September 20, 2023 by siddious

[Scott]

18 minutes ago, The Dude said:

I have no idea what you're saying about JD.  

 

Reputable source I'm waiting on is a player with a name saying what his account is of what happened.  As well as the unnamed person Bissonnette claims called him about Babcock and his phone stuff being something he has always done. I don't want to back track and I could be wrong,  but I think Bissonnette said this person that called him wanted to talk with the "uncomfortable " players..  

I'm pretty sure he says there was an investigation including the NHL & NHLPA and those results made it clear there was no path forward with Babcock, he also says they (he) got it wrong hiring him and those outside the org who questioned it from the get go.....

 

 

[Keirik]

37 minutes ago, jsrangers said:

@Keirik but even today LE is still kind of the exception how many other jobs do you have to go for a psychiatric eval as a part of the hiring process? I know in the corp world, very very little to none.

 

As for sharing here you go:

 

In the sports world there are draft tests. Wonderlic is a great example. Law enforcement is definitely an exception for sure. But there are plenty of examples of mind fuck games coaches do. Herb Brooks comes to mind. Mike Keenan had some mind fucks too. Bill Bellichek amd Bill Parcels as well. 
 

im not trying to really justify Babcock as much as I’m saying we are attacking him based on his track record. Also, we are making some big leaps of intent in some cases. He’s a mind fuck kind of guy. He’s not the only one though. He just stopped winning along the way so it became a bigger and bigger deal. 

[siddious]

1 minute ago, Keirik said:

In the sports world there are draft tests. Wonderlic is a great example. Law enforcement is definitely an exception for sure. But there are plenty of examples of mind fuck games coaches do. Herb Brooks comes to mind. Mike Keenan had some mind fucks too. Bill Bellichek amd Bill Parcels as well. 
 

im not trying to really justify Babcock as much as I’m saying we are attacking him based on his track record. Also, we are making some big leaps of intent in some cases. He’s a mind fuck kind of guy. He’s not the only one though. He just stopped winning along the way so it became a bigger and bigger deal. 

“Mind fucks” is being blurred with straight up being a piece of shit here though. 
 

 Chiclets made a great comparison … torts is known for yelling and being hard on guys but there’s not a single guy out there who doesn’t consider him a good person off the ice. 
 

if you haven’t heard the stories then google babcock and Franzen, or Babcock and marner. It’s just straight up unnecessary. 
 

and yea you’re right it’s a lot easier to look past something like this when you win. It’s also unfair to based current events on past history but alas that’s how the world works. Karma finally caught up to him I guess. 
 

 

[Scott]

13 minutes ago, jsrangers said:

I'm pretty sure he says there was an investigation including the NHL & NHLPA and those results made it clear there was no path forward with Babcock, he also says they (he) got it wrong hiring him and those outside the org who questioned it from the get go.....

 

 

Going around in circles but in here the first video mentions the investigations and a discussion with Babcock  their was no going back.

 

Presser/Video  Mentioning Investigation with NHL/NHLPA and Resulting Talk with Babcock

[Keirik]

4 minutes ago, siddious said:

“Mind fucks” is being blurred with straight up being a piece of shit here though. 
 

 Chiclets made a great comparison … torts is known for yelling and being hard on guys but there’s not a single guy out there who doesn’t consider him a good person off the ice. 
 

if you haven’t heard the stories then google babcock and Franzen, or Babcock and marner. It’s just straight up unnecessary. 
 

and yea you’re right it’s a lot easier to look past something like this when you win. It’s also unfair to based current events on past history but alas that’s how the world works. Karma finally caught up to him I guess. 
 

 

Don’t disagree with anything you are saying really. I have heard all the stories and I’m sure they are all true. And I guest that he doesn’t deserve the benefit of the doubt at all, but as you said, 4 years removed and this first event to me wasn’t as bad as its being portrayed. Plus there is a fuck ton of other speculation and connections we are making unverified. 
 

I kind of think of this kind of like giving that horrible ex that would disappear and cheat on you a second chance because she promises she missed you and is different now. 
 

    The first time she disappears for half a day being MIA you know you’d flip out, accuse her of cheating again, and dump her in seconds.  That doesn’t prove she actually cheated again but it sure proves that you never should have given her that chance because you’d never get over what she was. 

[Phil]

3 hours ago, Keirik said:

I will say this. After listening to them and Chelios speak, I'm willing to concede a bit that I'm more 75% leaning on the players side rather than previous 50/50. I do think that this sets a kind of slippery slope though that whenever a player deems he is being mistreated, bullied, etc.

 

I still 100% maintain that some players were just looking for anything though to get out of playing for this guy. The common idea is "well, do you blame them?" The answer is a bit muddy to me. 

 

Progress of a kind!

 

I actually hope it does set a standard — a standard of the NHLPA taking this shit more seriously to begin with so players don't feel their only recourse is leaking to friends in the media. Remember, the PA was notified initially and agreed with the league and CBJ with the Jenner account, which tells me they very much did not do their jobs until they were made painfully aware that this was deeper than was being let on.

 

3 hours ago, Pete said:

Right, so where I'm going with this is let's say Babs has the phone and a text pops up "You at Jerkoff's house? How's it going?"

 

What happens then?

 

Nothing good, I'd imagine. Nothing in Babcock's history suggests he'd look the other way with that sort of thing, at least. I'd venture a guess that that player would become a target for him.

 

2 hours ago, The Dude said:

Odd. I feel like intent is everything. Not sure how some of you are saying it's irrelevant.  

 

It's everything. 

 

I probably shouldn't have said that intent doesn't matter. I'm happy to walk that back some. But it does and it doesn't. What I mean by that is, It matters, and is contextually relevant, but it's still mostly irrelevant in this case for two reasons:

 

1. He improperly rifled through his own players' personal devices in bad faith. Hard to buy an argument of "team-building" when Babcock's idea of building the team is exerting a power dynamic out of the gate. He has it. Players don't. At least in his mind. The only culture this will build is one of fear.

 

2. Even if Babcock's intent was team-building (and I don't buy for a fucking second that it was given everything that's come out), his actions alienated multiple players. So, this is not simply a case of caving to "the minority." We know of at least two players who were "very uncomfortable" with what happened, and the Chiclets accounts infer even more. It's a 20-ish-man roster. What percentage of it are you willing to go into the season with feeling this way? Any non-zero number would be diconcerting, to say the least.