The Rangers Need a Right-Wing (Again)

[The Dude]

2 hours ago, CCCP said:

if Drury is thinking about trading anyone, Kreider has to be in his mind too.  Just because other "big names" are untradeable. 

you're not going to move the needle by trading Goodrow. 

With a new coach coming in, I think Kreider checks more boxes as a player the new coach will want around.  

[leetchy2]

1 hour ago, The Dude said:

I've mentioned it before.  I'd totally move Fox and cash the fuck in. Some say he's too vital to the team.  I dunno. Sometimes he is. 

 

I think Fox plays too much during the regular season so that when the playoffs roll around he is out of gas. No reason he should be killing penalties. Would rather have Schneider & Trouba as they are big enough to clear the crease.

 

Kreider should not be traded, IMO. He still has the tools (speed, toughness, shooting ability, etc..) but for whatever reason he doesn't use them. He's fast enough to get in on the forecheck and pound defenders through the glass like Adam Graves but doesn't. This is just coaching.

[BrooksBurner]

30 minutes ago, leetchy2 said:

I think Fox plays too much during the regular season so that when the playoffs roll around he is out of gas. No reason he should be killing penalties. Would rather have Schneider & Trouba as they are big enough to clear the crease.

 

Kreider should not be traded, IMO. He still has the tools (speed, toughness, shooting ability, etc..) but for whatever reason he doesn't use them. He's fast enough to get in on the forecheck and pound defenders through the glass like Adam Graves but doesn't. This is just coaching.

Kreider is 32. He’s not changing his stripes. Ditto for Panarin. We can’t expect coaching to change the vets and that’s the problem with scapegoating the coach. That’s why Drury needs to pick a coach who has the best chance to tap into Chytil/Miller/Kakko/Lafreniere more.

Edited May 15, 2023 by BrooksBurner

[BrooksBurner]

1 hour ago, The Dude said:

I've mentioned it before.  I'd totally move Fox and cash the fuck in. Some say he's too vital to the team.  I dunno. Sometimes he is. 

 

With that said, I'd imagine he and Shesterkin are the only actual unavailable players on the roster in Drurys eyes. Can't really argue it either. 

Brutal take unless it’s McDavid.

[The Dude]

2 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

Brutal take unless it’s McDavid.

Brutal take. 

 

You can get an entire line for him. You don't deal such a player in a 1 for 1 move. You fix your franchise by getting multiple working pieces that aren't on your team or in your system. 

[Br4d]

5 hours ago, jsm7302 said:

A year away from NMC going to NTC. Guy has been great but plays a position of excess  in this org and we have other holes. Problem may be that Zib goes into a season long depression without CK20 here. We can't afford that. Kreids has shown up as of the past couple seasons more consistently than ANY of us ever though he would. 

 

Hell, look at the cats. They don't even have to have a great regular season. Just get into the tournament and see where it goes. This roster isn't going to do it though; changes must be made. 

 

IMO, the play is to test the market for Miller and Fox in a hockey 1 for 1 trade. We have the depth to do that. Or talk to Kreids about waiving that NMC. Everyone is gunna scream that I said Fox but ya know what. His half ass effort sometimes is beyond frustrating, and it was glaring in Game 7 of all games.

 

Trading the young star defenseman didn't work out for the Rangers in the 70's and it is unlikely to workout now.  They need to move Panarin.  If they really can't do that they need to move Kreider.  The Rangers need to give Lafreniere the full shot with no BS in front of him if the move is slow to succeed.  It's time.

[BrooksBurner]

54 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Brutal take. 

 

You can get an entire line for him. You don't deal such a player in a 1 for 1 move. You fix your franchise by getting multiple working pieces that aren't on your team or in your system. 

 

If Fox is ever on the market it's after he's in his 30s and the team is non-competitive anymore. Not a second sooner.

 

He and Makar are the two defensemen in the league you trade under no circumstances, unless it's for the best player to put skates on since Gretzky/Mario.

[siddious]

1 minute ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

If Fox is ever on the market it's after he's in his 30s and the team is non-competitive anymore. Not a second sooner.

 

He and Makar are the two defensemen in the league you trade under no circumstances, unless it's for the best player to put skates on since Gretzky/Mario.

but we already have jimmy Vesey so no reason to trade fox 

[BrooksBurner]

1 minute ago, siddious said:

but we already have jimmy Vesey so no reason to trade fox 

 

Shick individual

[Br4d]

18 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

If Fox is ever on the market it's after he's in his 30s and the team is non-competitive anymore. Not a second sooner.

 

He and Makar are the two defensemen in the league you trade under no circumstances, unless it's for the best player to put skates on since Gretzky/Mario.

 

McDavid is a great player.

 

Phil Esposito had 127 pts or higher 5 seasons in a row, including completely McDavid-like numbers, when the Rangers traded Park for him.  Yes he was older and coming out of his prime and it was just a completely crappy trade given who else was also involved.  However the Rangers gave up the 2nd best defenseman in the NHL in the deal and everything had to work out perfectly for them for the deal to be good.

[RichieNextel305]

I personally want to see Kreider skate on a 3rd line with Trocheck to start next year. That isn’t an indictment on Kreider at all either. I just think it checks a lot of boxes. Kreider was actually pretty good 5-on-5, and we all know about the love affair with him and Mika. But moving him down (at least to start) gives Lafreniere the opportunity to get a legit shot, on his comfortable side, in the Top-6. I also think Kreider could pair good with Trocheck on a 3rd line that could be annoying to play against, can score, can defend, can cycle the puck down low and be a good aggressive line for us to use in all situations. Doesn’t take Kreider off the PP1 unit; let him still set up shop there. But again, just my opinion.

[H-Dreamer]

7 hours ago, RichieNextel305 said:

Kane looked hurt and I’m sure played hurt. But lets not forget that he put up 92 points on a bad Chicago team just a season ago. Whether it’s a full summer of rest and he comes back on a discount or he gets the surgery and goes on LTIR (still discounted contract), the Rangers can benefit here. 

And Brett Favre looked like an MVP on the Vikings in 2009 and then fell of a cliff in 2010, old and injured players are more likely to regress than return to form. 

Not sure what the discount would have to be to off-set that risk. 

 

Edited May 16, 2023 by H-Dreamer

[Jdog99]

wtf can't panarin play RW? for 11.6m he should be able to.

 

he does do pretty well adapting to various placement on the pp, i think.

 

kreider-zib-panarin

 

and if he doesnt like it he can agree to a trade...

[RichieNextel305]

8 minutes ago, H-Dreamer said:

And Brett Favre looked like an MVP on the Vikings in 2009 and then fell of a cliff in 2010, old and injured players are more likely to regress than return to form. 

Not sure what the discount would have to be to off-set that risk. 

 

Kane isn’t 40. He’s 34. 

[The Dude]

47 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

 

If Fox is ever on the market it's after he's in his 30s and the team is non-competitive anymore. Not a second sooner.

 

He and Makar are the two defensemen in the league you trade under no circumstances, unless it's for the best player to put skates on since Gretzky/Mario.

Disagree.  Times change. Free agency has changed the sport as has the salary cap. 

 

We've seen a few teams jump ship from their top offensive D men over the years. It's not unheard of. 

 

Why not a second sooner? If they can get a top tier RW in his prime plus?

 

If the Rangers can survive without Panarins 90+ points (as you suggest), why can't they survive without Fox's 70? I'm not certain the Rangers would suffer greatly if they moved Fox. 

 

It's all for not. He's probably not going to be moved. I'm just entertaining the post for discussion. 

[SaveByRichter35]

On 5/14/2023 at 9:02 PM, SaveByRichter35 said:

Can Miller play the on the right?  I know I asked this question before but I don't remember what the response was.  His defense is terrible, we won't miss him there.  Maybe we can find cheaper options to backfill the defense while he moves up to the wing?

[H-Dreamer]

29 minutes ago, RichieNextel305 said:

Kane isn’t 40. He’s 34. 

Sure, but for some it happens earlier than for others, also depends on the injuries they had.

[RichieNextel305]

18 minutes ago, H-Dreamer said:

Sure, but for some it happens earlier than for others, also depends on the injuries they had.

But again, Kane put up 92 points. On a bad team. Last year. It’s not as if he’s 40 and his career is over. And again, this is if he’s healthy/going on LTIR and willing to take a pay cut.

 

I get the knee jerk reaction to what happened and needing drastic change. One year is speed, another is talent, another is size and grit.

 

Who says, with the some cap management, that we can’t have both? What that management is? My guess is as good as yours. But if Kane is willing to take a haircut to stay, I’d be more than willing to listen. And saying yes doesn’t mean going back to the well. With or without him, the identity of this team will look different. And with a new coach too, Lord only knows what type of style will be implemented. Who knows if Drury makes any drastic changes to the roster too?

 

But having Kane, Panarin and Zibanejad in your Top-6 isn’t a bad start, regardless of how this all ended. And hopefully, it would be complimented with Chytil, Kakko and Lafreniere. It is literally put up or shut up time, and we are either going to sink or swim here with them taking the next step or regressing.

Edited May 16, 2023 by RichieNextel305

[H-Dreamer]

3 minutes ago, RichieNextel305 said:

But again, Kane put up 92 points. On a bad team. Last year. It’s not as if he’s 40 and his career is over. And again, this is if he’s healthy/going on LTIR and willing to take a pay cut.

 

I get the knee jerk reaction to what happened and needing drastic change. One year is speed, another is talent, another is size and grit.

 

Who says, with the some cap management, that we can’t have both? What that management is? My guess is as good as yours. But if Kane is willing to take a haircut to stay, I’d be more than willing to listen. And saying yes doesn’t mean going back to the well. With or without him, the identity of this team will look different. And with a new coach too, Lord only knows what type of style will be implemented. Who knows if Drury makes any drastic changes to the roster too?

 

But having Kane, Panarin and Zibanejad in your Top-6 isn’t a bad start, regardless of how this all ended. And hopefully, it would be complimented with Chytil, Kakko and Lafreniere. It is literally put up or shut up time, and we are either going to sink or swim here with them taking the next step or regressing.

I am all for giving this core another shot with a new coach and system, but I won't hold my breath waiting for it to succeed.

So far coaching changes haven't gotten us over the hump since I've been following the team (since about 2000).

Neither has going after other teams Stars past their prime or the big free agent signing, St.Louis coming closest to it.

Of course that makes Laf and Kakko not developing as fast (or at all) as we'd hope worse.

 

Maybe the stats tell a different story, I am not sure I don't really know how to check, but sure feels like we suck at drafting and developing forwards. There's Kreider and who else in the last decade?

 

All in all I am pretty lost on what the way to go is from here.

 

 

 

[Phil]

15 minutes ago, RichieNextel305 said:

But again, Kane put up 92 points. On a bad team. Last year. It’s not as if he’s 40 and his career is over. And again, this is if he’s healthy/going on LTIR and willing to take a pay cut.

 

I get the knee jerk reaction to what happened and needing drastic change. One year is speed, another is talent, another is size and grit.

 

Who says, with the some cap management, that we can’t have both? What that management is? My guess is as good as yours. But if Kane is willing to take a haircut to stay, I’d be more than willing to listen. And saying yes doesn’t mean going back to the well. With or without him, the identity of this team will look different. And with a new coach too, Lord only knows what type of style will be implemented. Who knows if Drury makes any drastic changes to the roster too?

 

But having Kane, Panarin and Zibanejad in your Top-6 isn’t a bad start, regardless of how this all ended. And hopefully, it would be complimented with Chytil, Kakko and Lafreniere. It is literally put up or shut up time, and we are either going to sink or swim here with them taking the next step or regressing.

 

Having Kane, Panarin, and Zibanejad in the top-six is a recipe to repeat the same thing and just hope for a different result. Forgive me for not joining you on the regular season ride to playoff disappointment again.

[RichieNextel305]

15 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

Having Kane, Panarin, and Zibanejad in the top-six is a recipe to repeat the same thing and just hope for a different result. Forgive me for not joining you on the regular season ride to playoff disappointment again.

I don’t think it is. All 3 have, at certain points, been great players come playoff time. 
 

Listen, I know the wounds are still fresh. And believe me, I am furious with the top players on this team and how little they looked against New Jersey. And I’m not looking to run it back 100%. But, if you remove Tarasenko from the team (likely given what he will get on the market), you lose firepower that we were looking to acquire before the deadline. Before the deadline, it was easy to see this team needed help up front. We went out, got Vladdy and the lineup looked more full. And then everyone thought Kane was overkill, etc etc.

 

I’m not saying we don’t need more grit, more sandpaper, who doesn’t? But we also need to realize that having some finesse guys also wouldn’t hurt. You can’t just look at what’s left now and be like “look at them!” It’s recency bias. If our horses played like horses, we beat the Devils; especially after being given a 2-0 lead in the series. Our top guys, all of them, either didn’t show up at all or showed up too little.

 

Again, I’m not saying to go all out to bring him back. But if he gets fixed this summer, or the rest is recommended and he’s willing to stay for well below market value, it’s something to entertain.

 

Lets see what Drury does. I’ve said this before and I’ll keep saying it: Unpredictable. That’s the best way to describe this summer; it’s going to be unpredictable. I have no idea what Drury does here. 

Edited May 16, 2023 by RichieNextel305

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

6 hours ago, The Dude said:

Why not a second sooner? If they can get a top tier RW in his prime plus?

Why would we trade one of the best 1D's in the league for a RW? Creating a huge hole in our lineup to fill a less important hole?

 

6 hours ago, The Dude said:

If the Rangers can survive without Panarins 90+ points (as you suggest), why can't they survive without Fox's 70? I'm not certain the Rangers would suffer greatly if they moved Fox. 

Because there's a lot more to Fox than just his points. And do you really want to see Trouba on the 1st PP unit? 

[The Dude]

51 minutes ago, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

Why would we trade one of the best 1D's in the league for a RW? Creating a huge hole in our lineup to fill a less important hole?

 

Because there's a lot more to Fox than just his points. And do you really want to see Trouba on the 1st PP unit? 

I trade one of the best 1 Ds to improve the team. Like I said. You'd be getting more than one player back. Not just the needed RW. The Rangers have 1 RW and he's teetering on bust status . 

 

What good is having one of the best 1Ds in the game if the rest of your roster is so "meh" and literally incomplete?  Are we trying to win? Or just trying to have one of the best offensive D men in the game (24 straight without a goal this season)? 

 

I'll never be on board with saying any player is untouchable. 

 

Trouba wouldn't be on the PP1 unit. Aren't we in love with Miller's offensive game? 40 points and no PP time? 

 

Again,  it's never going to happen.  He's untouchable as is Shesterkin in Drurys eyes. Was just going with the posters thought. 

[Pete]

11 hours ago, BrooksBurner said:

Kreider is 32. He’s not changing his stripes. Ditto for Panarin. We can’t expect coaching to change the vets and that’s the problem with scapegoating the coach. That’s why Drury needs to pick a coach who has the best chance to tap into Chytil/Miller/Kakko/Lafreniere more.

That's just not true. Yzerman was pushing 30 when Scotty Bowman took over the Red wings and he changed his playing style to the tune of four cups. That included being more physical and more defensively responsible.

[Pete]

8 hours ago, RichieNextel305 said:

I don’t think it is. All 3 have, at certain points, been great players come playoff time. 
 

Listen, I know the wounds are still fresh. And believe me, I am furious with the top players on this team and how little they looked against New Jersey. And I’m not looking to run it back 100%. But, if you remove Tarasenko from the team (likely given what he will get on the market), you lose firepower that we were looking to acquire before the deadline. Before the deadline, it was easy to see this team needed help up front. We went out, got Vladdy and the lineup looked more full. And then everyone thought Kane was overkill, etc etc.

 

I’m not saying we don’t need more grit, more sandpaper, who doesn’t? But we also need to realize that having some finesse guys also wouldn’t hurt. You can’t just look at what’s left now and be like “look at them!” It’s recency bias. If our horses played like horses, we beat the Devils; especially after being given a 2-0 lead in the series. Our top guys, all of them, either didn’t show up at all or showed up too little.

 

Again, I’m not saying to go all out to bring him back. But if he gets fixed this summer, or the rest is recommended and he’s willing to stay for well below market value, it’s something to entertain.

 

Lets see what Drury does. I’ve said this before and I’ll keep saying it: Unpredictable. That’s the best way to describe this summer; it’s going to be unpredictable. I have no idea what Drury does here. 

I completely agree with this. It's almost like people don't remember that in the first two games of the series the Rangers completely dismantled the devils.

 

What changed? What gave the devils an edge? A coaching adjustment. 

 

Everybody looks at the devils and says we need to be as fast as them to win! Playing fast doesn't always mean you have the fastest skaters in the league, playing fast means you make quick decisions. You know how you make quick decisions? You install a system that takes a lot of decision making for the players out of the equation.

 

I said this already, but these players are constantly having to read the play every time they have the puck because nobody knows what the other guy is going to do. If you put three decisions in front of a player instead of 10, they will make a quicker decision and the team will play quicker.

 

The idea of people wanting to trade players, again, is only because people are mad at certain players. You don't see anybody wanting to trade the players who are the easiest to move and have the most value right now. You only see people suggesting trading players who they're angry at. And none of the trades make the team better.

 

Removing a 95 point player from the top six so that you can elevate a 40 point player who also had 0 points in the playoffs doesn't really make any sense. At all. Period. I don't care how young he is, he has not earned a shot. He needs to earn a shot because he has zero work ethic.

 

If any of the kids deserve to be elevated and handed the keys to the kingdom, it's Kakko or Chytil. Not Laugh. 

Edited May 16, 2023 by Pete