Jacob Trouba Is This Season's MVP: Change My Mind

[Karan]

19 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

A yes/no, or multi-candidate question?

 

I was thinking a multi-candidate poll, but I don't want to hijack the OP's thread so yes/no would probably be more appropriate. 

[Pete]

1 hour ago, Phil said:

 

Yes, they're marketing a moment that happened — one I don't think it's any stretch to suggest was a/the spark that turned their season around.

I'd might agree if they won that game. But they didn't.

 

Maybe it's party because I refuse to believe that pro athletes are inspired by that series of events. They're adults. The most likely out come was they said "Wow, he's pissed", and they went on with their lives.

[Br4d]

3 minutes ago, Pete said:

I'd might agree if they won that game. But they didn't.

 

Maybe it's party because I refuse to believe that pro athletes are inspired by that series of events. They're adults. The most likely out come was they said "Wow, he's pissed", and they went on with their lives.

 

We just saw the helmet throw because it was on the ice as he exited at the end.  We have no idea what followed in the locker room but past experience suggests that Trouba was vocal there as well because that's what he does.  One of the reasons he was made Captain is that he is more likely to take players aside and assist and welcome and also talk to the room in general when he thinks it's needed.

[Phil]

1 hour ago, BlairBettsBlocksEverything said:

Trouba is a good captain. Whatever you may think of his play, the team will follow him into a fight, that much is clear. It will be interesting that he's the one who will get the cup first this year lol

 

MVP is either Mika or Fox though

 

Yup. I think it's honestly his most valuable trait — that ability to drag the team into the fight. It sucks that it sometimes requires it, but you can literally see the difference in games in which he gets involved in a big way. Big hit, big fight, whatever.

[Phil]

14 minutes ago, Pete said:

I'd might agree if they won that game. But they didn't.

 

Maybe it's party because I refuse to believe that pro athletes are inspired by that series of events. They're adults. The most likely out come was they said "Wow, he's pissed", and they went on with their lives.

 

I just can't agree, for the reasons stated above. This team has "woken up" numerous times this year when they're dragged into the fight, often on the heels of something Trouba has done. Perhaps it's all coincidence that he's the one seemingly always involved, but when they're forced to get physical, get involved in scrums, defend their players, their goalie, etc. they just play completely differently.

 

Maybe in an ideal world you don't need or want adults who require this kind of motivation, but I just don't think that comports to reality very often. I feel like the teams that are entirely self-sufficient in that regard are unicorns (like the Bruins).

[Phil]

1 hour ago, Karan said:

 

I was thinking a multi-candidate poll, but I don't want to hijack the OP's thread so yes/no would probably be more appropriate. 

 

Right. @Valriera it's your thread — do you have a preference (if you want a poll at all)?

[Pete]

11 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

I just can't agree, for the reasons stated above. This team has "woken up" numerous times this year when they're dragged into the fight, often on the heels of something Trouba has done. Perhaps it's all coincidence that he's the one seemingly always involved, but when they're forced to get physical, get involved in scrums, defend their players, their goalie, etc. they just play completely differently.

 

Maybe in an ideal world you don't need or want adults who require this kind of motivation, but I just don't think that comports to reality very often. I feel like the teams that are entirely self-sufficient in that regard are unicorns (like the Bruins).

While this may be true it doesn't apply to Trouba. His fights are all self defense. He doesn't come to the aid of teammates that often.

 

People can believe what they want, and I don't believe a thrown helmet is what it was regardless of the surrounding coincidence.

Edited March 27, 2023 by Pete

[Pete]

15 minutes ago, Br4d said:

 

We just saw the helmet throw because it was on the ice as he exited at the end.  We have no idea what followed in the locker room but past experience suggests that Trouba was vocal there as well because that's what he does.  One of the reasons he was made Captain is that he is more likely to take players aside and assist and welcome and also talk to the room in general when he thinks it's needed.

I believe this to be much more likely.

[Phil]

Just now, Pete said:

While this may be true it doesn't apply to Trouba. His fights are all self defense. He doesn't come to the aid of teammates that often.

 

Sure, but the end result is always the same.  Dragged into the fight = better team play = stellar record since The Helmet Throw™.

 

[BrooksBurner]

All I can picture right now is the helmet throw getting memorialized on the big screen at the Stanley Cup Champs parade, highlighted as the turning point of the season. The whole crowd starts getting chills and goosebumps. @Pete turns to @Phil in the crowd and says "what a bunch of fairy tale bullshit, they didn't even come back to win that game", ruining the moment for anyone in earshot.

[Pete]

2 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said:

All I can picture right now is the helmet throw getting memorialized on the big screen at the Stanley Cup Champs parade, highlighted as the turning point of the season. The whole crowd starts getting chills and goosebumps. @Pete turns to @Phil in the crowd and says "what a bunch of fairy tale bullshit, they didn't even come back to win that game", ruining the moment for anyone in earshot.

And that's accurate. 

[Rangers]

On 3/26/2023 at 9:51 AM, siddious said:

Might be the greatest helmet throw in history 

End the only!

[Valriera]

3 hours ago, Phil said:

 

Right. @Valriera it's your thread — do you have a preference (if you want a poll at all)?

Added

Edited March 27, 2023 by Valriera

[Valriera]

Back to topic, Mika is the only one who makes me think twice here, for the consistent 2-way center argument. I don't have a counter argument because that's all true. The guy should get Selke consideration. I just have trouble using stats as the indicator here. If we miss the playoffs and Mika plays the same way, we probably don't care about how consistent he was and probably are talking about how he didn't show up when it mattered most. The whole league would do the same of Patrice Bergeron if he wasn't also the guy you want on the ice leading your team and produced results doing so.

 

I've been on teams with a shit ton of talent before that didn't have leadership, and that is this team, without Trouba. We can debate until the cows come home how he does it, why, when, etc, but what's clear over the past few years, from the moment he went down, to when we got trounced by the Isles, to when JD and Gorton got fired, to last year when he knocked Crosby out of the series, to this year, is that he's the leader. This year, maybe not last year, or other years, the team would have missed the playoffs without their leader waking them up a couple times, and that's exactly what he's done. Swap Mika for any strong 1C and this team has roughly the same record as they do now. Can you confidently swap Trouba for someone else making his salary, this season, and say we even make the playoffs? Idk, I can't. Hedman? Not even a fair comparison because Hedman is so much better and I still don't even know that it happens. 

The interesting part of this is that it kind of gets into what your definition of MVP is that we have every time the Hart trophy gets brought up so, I concede that my opinion is probably contrary to what the conventional way of thinking about that is, but to me it's not "best", it's "most irreplaceable". Often those two are the same, but not always, and on a team with this much talent but not so much backbone, I feel like the backbone is the most irreplaceable.  

[CBrowningPI]

33 minutes ago, Valriera said:

Back to topic, Mika is the only one who makes me think twice here, for the consistent 2-way center argument. I don't have a counter argument because that's all true. The guy should get Selke consideration. I just have trouble using stats as the indicator here. If we miss the playoffs and Mika plays the same way, we probably don't care about how consistent he was and probably are talking about how he didn't show up when it mattered most. The whole league would do the same of Patrice Bergeron if he wasn't also the guy you want on the ice leading your team and produced results doing so.

 

I've been on teams with a shit ton of talent before that didn't have leadership, and that is this team, without Trouba. We can debate until the cows come home how he does it, why, when, etc, but what's clear over the past few years, from the moment he went down, to when we got trounced by the Isles, to when JD and Gorton got fired, to last year when he knocked Crosby out of the series, to this year, is that he's the leader. This year, maybe not last year, or other years, the team would have missed the playoffs without their leader waking them up a couple times, and that's exactly what he's done. Swap Mika for any strong 1C and this team has roughly the same record as they do now. Can you confidently swap Trouba for someone else making his salary, this season, and say we even make the playoffs? Idk, I can't. Hedman? Not even a fair comparison because Hedman is so much better and I still don't even know that it happens. 

The interesting part of this is that it kind of gets into what your definition of MVP is that we have every time the Hart trophy gets brought up so, I concede that my opinion is probably contrary to what the conventional way of thinking about that is, but to me it's not "best", it's "most irreplaceable". Often those two are the same, but not always, and on a team with this much talent but not so much backbone, I feel like the backbone is the most irreplaceable.  

Right. So if we think about the Rangers starting the playoffs tomorrow and you had one of Trouba or Zibanejad injured, which one would have more of an impact on the team? Really thinking about it makes me think Trouba. So I'm on the Trouba train.

[Ozzy]

3 minutes ago, CBrowningPI said:

Right. So if we think about the Rangers starting the playoffs tomorrow and you had one of Trouba or Zibanejad injured, which one would have more of an impact on the team? Really thinking about it makes me think Trouba. So I'm on the Trouba train.

 

I think we need both of them to win, Browny.  Without one or the other changes the chemistry of the team, I believe.  I think Mika is simply more valuable because he's the most well-rounded, skilled hockey player we have.  The guy does it all in my book.

 

Trouba is the force that leads by example, and he does that better than anyone on the team.  We can't NOT have that either.

[Pete]

15 hours ago, Valriera said:

Back to topic, Mika is the only one who makes me think twice here, for the consistent 2-way center argument. I don't have a counter argument because that's all true. The guy should get Selke consideration. I just have trouble using stats as the indicator here. If we miss the playoffs and Mika plays the same way, we probably don't care about how consistent he was and probably are talking about how he didn't show up when it mattered most. The whole league would do the same of Patrice Bergeron if he wasn't also the guy you want on the ice leading your team and produced results doing so.

 

I've been on teams with a shit ton of talent before that didn't have leadership, and that is this team, without Trouba. We can debate until the cows come home how he does it, why, when, etc, but what's clear over the past few years, from the moment he went down, to when we got trounced by the Isles, to when JD and Gorton got fired, to last year when he knocked Crosby out of the series, to this year, is that he's the leader. This year, maybe not last year, or other years, the team would have missed the playoffs without their leader waking them up a couple times, and that's exactly what he's done. Swap Mika for any strong 1C and this team has roughly the same record as they do now. Can you confidently swap Trouba for someone else making his salary, this season, and say we even make the playoffs? Idk, I can't. Hedman? Not even a fair comparison because Hedman is so much better and I still don't even know that it happens. 

The interesting part of this is that it kind of gets into what your definition of MVP is that we have every time the Hart trophy gets brought up so, I concede that my opinion is probably contrary to what the conventional way of thinking about that is, but to me it's not "best", it's "most irreplaceable". Often those two are the same, but not always, and on a team with this much talent but not so much backbone, I feel like the backbone is the most irreplaceable.  

This might be the first time I've ever seen anybody make a case that a player is the MVP because he goes out and tries to injure players on the other team LOL. 

 

The second bolded sentence is just mind-blowing. It's almost to the point where it can't be responded to because it's so irrational. 

[Valriera]

On 3/28/2023 at 5:44 AM, Pete said:

This might be the first time I've ever seen anybody make a case that a player is the MVP because he goes out and tries to injure players on the other team LOL. 

 

The second bolded sentence is just mind-blowing. It's almost to the point where it can't be responded to because it's so irrational. 

Yikes, Pete.  

[Pete]

1 hour ago, Valriera said:

Yikes, Pete.  

Dude cut me some slack lol... you're saying even if you swapped him with Hedman you're not sure we would make the playoffs? Come on.

 

Let's just go based on pay, per your comment... Here's defense by cap hit. Trouba is 15. Go 5 spots up and 5 spots down and I count 7 guys (skipped Weber) out of 10 who are much better players or are at least "as good". 

 

https://www.capfriendly.com/browse/active/2023/caphit/all/defense?stats-season=2023

 

Makar

Heiskanen

Chabot

Carlsson

Burns

Hedman

Spurgeon

 

And that doesn't count Quinn Hughes because I don't know if he sucks at D, barely watch Vancouver. 

 

He isn't some kind of unicorn. He throws some nice open ice hits that are more often than not borderline and he also misses a good amount that leave him out of position.

 

Look I don't have much issue Trouba the player or as a C but he should be making half what he makes and needs to be sheltered with a very strong defensive partner because he's just not a great defensive player. 

 

He is by no means irreplaceable. He's not even the MVD on this team, let alone MVP. Losing Fox or Lindgren for the playoffs would be far more detrimental than Trouba. 

 

Edited March 29, 2023 by Pete

[Sharpshooter]

If you've watched every game this year, it shouldn't be hard to change your mind. lol It's Mika Zibanejad.

 

Trouba might have ignited the turnaround with that display of emotion, but he hasn't been that great this year and is massively overrated and overpaid.

 

Once they start voting for the Extra Effort award, I really hope he doesn't get it because of that. It's been overblown anyway.

[Ozzy]

I still have to go with Shesterkin.

 

The guy is the most irreplaceable player on the team, in my book. 

[siddious]

8 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

I still have to go with Shesterkin.

 

The guy is the most irreplaceable player on the team, in my book. 

He’s the most important player on this team

but I don’t know if he’s been the mvp. He’s had a pretty pedestrian season sans the last few games. 

[Ozzy]

28 minutes ago, siddious said:

He’s the most important player on this team

but I don’t know if he’s been the mvp. He’s had a pretty pedestrian season sans the last few games. 

 

I really couldn't expect him to have a save % like last season, Pete.  The main thing is getting hot for the playoffs.  But he's definitely kept us in games this season.

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

 

[RJWantsTheCup]

Well deserved for Mika. 
Lindgren won the Players Player Award.