Rangers Trade Vitali Kravtsov to Canucks for William Lockwood, 2026 7th Round Pick

[Sharpshooter]

14 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said:

At least they got Chytil and Miller in those drafts. Softens the blow slightly.

A little, yes. Just imagine how good those drafts would have been if they didn't reach so hard on those top ten picks though?

[Sharpshooter]

5 minutes ago, siddious said:

remember when we all thought he was amazing lmao

Pepperidge Farm remembers. Honestly, I never liked the guy. He always came off as he thinks he's smarter than everyone else. All he did was (mostly) fuck over this franchise on too many reaches in the draft.

[siddious]

10 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

Pepperidge Farm remembers. Honestly, I never liked the guy. He always came off as he thinks he's smarter than everyone else. All he did was (mostly) fuck over this franchise on too many reaches in the draft.

lol

 

thats the thing with scouts it takes a while to realize they suck unfortunately. 

[RangersIn7]

25 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

A little, yes. Just imagine how good those drafts would have been if they didn't reach so hard on those top ten picks though?

Both those picks are, to me, completely inexcusable.

 

I follow prospects and the draft very closely and have for many years.

 

Lias had, from the 12-20 major entities that rank prospects, an average rank of around 17. As far as I can remember, no one had him above the 12-13 range, and in a draft that was universally thought of as below average, average at best.

You can’t take that guy in that draft at #7 OVA. 
 

Though I will say in their defense  that everything leading up to that pick centered around them trading into the top-5 to pick Pettersson, and they had a deal in place with Vancouver to do so, but at the last minute it didn’t materialize. And in the process they got Stepan off the books. Those things, plus getting Chytil… ok… they can have a pass.

 

But Kravtsov, the next year, at 9th overall when he had an average grade in the 20’s… including a couple of entities which didn’t even have him at a 1st round grade, is not ok. I wanted Wahlstrom. He’d have been the absolute right pick and the safe pick. Granted, there were a few places that had Kravtsov as high as the top-10, but Wahlstrom was a consensus top-10

 

No excuses on either. And you can only grant 1 pass over 2 drafts. 

[Sharpshooter]

2 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said:

Both those picks are, to me, completely inexcusable.

 

I follow prospects and the draft very closely and have for many years.

 

Lias had, from the 12-20 major entities that rank prospects, an average rank of around 17. As far as I can remember, no one had him above the 12-13 range, and in a draft that was universally thought of as below average, average at best.

You can’t take that guy in that draft at #7 OVA. 
 

Though I will say in their defense  that everything leading up to that pick centered around them trading into the top-5 to pick Pettersson, and they had a deal in place with Vancouver to do so, but at the last minute it didn’t materialize. And in the process they got Stepan off the books. Those things, plus getting Chytil… ok… they can have a pass.

 

But Kravtsov, the next year, at 9th overall when he had an average grade in the 20’s… including a couple of entities which didn’t even have him at a 1st round grade, is not ok. I wanted Wahlstrom. He’d have been the absolute right pick and the safe pick. Granted, there were a few places that had Kravtsov as high as the top-10, but Wahlstrom was a consensus top-10

 

No excuses on either. And you can only grant 1 pass over 2 drafts. 

Man, it's unfortunate that Pettersson deal didn't happen. Can you imagine? Oh, man. But yeah, I tend to be a little more forgiving of that whole thing for those points about Chytil and Stepan. It's still awful, but it softens the blow.

 

I was pissed when they didn't take Wahlstrom. Not only that, but he winds up going to the Islanders. lol

[Gravesy]

Now, in fairness, in hindsight where the Rangers took Kravtsov wasn’t a great place to pick.

 

1	9	NY Rangers	Vitali Kravtsov
1	10	Edmonton	Evan Bouchard
1	11	NY Islanders	Oliver Wahlstrom
1	12	NY Islanders	Noah Dobson
1	13	Dallas	Ty Dellandrea
1	14	Philadelphia	Joel Farabee
1	15	Florida	Grigori Denisenko
1	16	Colorado	Martin Kaut
1	17	New Jersey	Ty Smith
1	18	Columbus	Liam Foudy
1	19	Philadelphia	Jay O'Brien
1	20	Los Angeles	Rasmus Kupari
1	21	San Jose	Ryan Merkley

Obviously the Rangers set fire to their pick, but that’s not a who’s who of guys tearing up the league. 

[RangersIn7]

2 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

Man, it's unfortunate that Pettersson deal didn't happen. Can you imagine? Oh, man. But yeah, I tend to be a little more forgiving of that whole thing for those points about Chytil and Stepan. It's still awful, but it softens the blow.

 

I was pissed when they didn't take Wahlstrom. Not only that, but he winds up going to the Islanders. lol

Yeah. 2017 and Andersson… it’s ok. They never intended to pick him. They wanted Pettersson and came within inches of getting him… and they kind of scrambled at the last minute and it fizzled. Still a mistake and they absolutely should have had a better contingency plan, but good things came from that deal and draft, etc. Especially Chytil. If his birthday is 6 days later, he goes to the 2018 Draft and probably would have been been a top-10 pick in that class. Plus in that class, he was a reach, but not to the degree of Chytil the following year.

 

But Kravtsov… I’m sorry. No. 
That class wasn’t much better, but you can’t do that there. Not at all. He was a BIG reach by all measurements. And there was an undeniable and consensus top-10 player at the same position available. 

 

[RangersIn7]

6 minutes ago, Gravesy said:

Now, in fairness, in hindsight where the Rangers took Kravtsov wasn’t a great place to pick.

 

1	9	NY Rangers	Vitali Kravtsov
1	10	Edmonton	Evan Bouchard
1	11	NY Islanders	Oliver Wahlstrom
1	12	NY Islanders	Noah Dobson
1	13	Dallas	Ty Dellandrea
1	14	Philadelphia	Joel Farabee
1	15	Florida	Grigori Denisenko
1	16	Colorado	Martin Kaut
1	17	New Jersey	Ty Smith
1	18	Columbus	Liam Foudy
1	19	Philadelphia	Jay O'Brien
1	20	Los Angeles	Rasmus Kupari
1	21	San Jose	Ryan Merkley

Obviously the Rangers set fire to their pick, but that’s not a who’s who of guys tearing up the league. 

No. It isn’t. You’re 100% correct. But look at the 3 players picked right behind him.

Bouchard

Wahlstrom

Dobson

 

Point is… you had a pick at a spot where if you hadn’t gone off-board, you’d now have a player in hand that you would be pretty damn happy with. 

[Pete]

1 hour ago, siddious said:

remember when we all thought he was amazing lmao

Because there was a time he was. We don't need to forget that. 

[RJWantsTheCup]

At least half of Rangers fans thought they were picking Wahlstrom. 

[LindG1000]

2 hours ago, Sharpshooter said:

A little, yes. Just imagine how good those drafts would have been if they didn't reach so hard on those top ten picks though?

 

It's hindsight, but both of those drafts really stunk once you got away from the sure things. 

 

Suzuki and Necas were picked after Andersson, but there's a lot of "buyer beware" in that 7-21 or so range. Sure, if we could re-do that draft we'd pick Necas at 7 and Robertson at 21, but like....everyone who picked in that first round after us would say the same thing. 

Even 2018 - do you want any of those defenders over Miller, who does not get picked if we take Dobson or Bouchard? Like...what's the alternate history here, we draft Dobson and then Dominik Bokk? Are we really that much better for it?

[RangersIn7]

14 minutes ago, LindG1000 said:

 

It's hindsight, but both of those drafts really stunk once you got away from the sure things. 

 

Suzuki and Necas were picked after Andersson, but there's a lot of "buyer beware" in that 7-21 or so range. Sure, if we could re-do that draft we'd pick Necas at 7 and Robertson at 21, but like....everyone who picked in that first round after us would say the same thing. 

Even 2018 - do you want any of those defenders over Miller, who does not get picked if we take Dobson or Bouchard? Like...what's the alternate history here, we draft Dobson and then Dominik Bokk? Are we really that much better for it?

Robertson went 39th OVA… a higher 2nd round pick. No one had a 1st round grade on him I don’t believe. And then he spent the next 2 seasons in Juniors, plus a year in the AHL. 
 

No. We aren’t better off.

 

But they could’ve drafted Wahlstrom, and then Miller and Lundkvist still. 

[Phil]

1 hour ago, Gravesy said:

Now, in fairness, in hindsight where the Rangers took Kravtsov wasn’t a great place to pick.

 

1	9	NY Rangers	Vitali Kravtsov
1	10	Edmonton	Evan Bouchard
1	11	NY Islanders	Oliver Wahlstrom
1	12	NY Islanders	Noah Dobson
1	13	Dallas	Ty Dellandrea
1	14	Philadelphia	Joel Farabee
1	15	Florida	Grigori Denisenko
1	16	Colorado	Martin Kaut
1	17	New Jersey	Ty Smith
1	18	Columbus	Liam Foudy
1	19	Philadelphia	Jay O'Brien
1	20	Los Angeles	Rasmus Kupari
1	21	San Jose	Ryan Merkley

Obviously the Rangers set fire to their pick, but that’s not a who’s who of guys tearing up the league. 

 

Bouchard, Wahlstrom, Dobson, Dellandrea — all better picks. Wahlstrom was the pick. He's not great either, but at least he's an NHLer.

[Albatrosss]

2 hours ago, Sharpshooter said:

Pepperidge Farm remembers. Honestly, I never liked the guy. He always came off as he thinks he's smarter than everyone else. All he did was (mostly) fuck over this franchise on too many reaches in the draft.

He looked like a washed up drunk to me. 

[RangersIn7]

10 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

Bouchard, Wahlstrom, Dobson, Dellandrea — all better picks. Wahlstrom was the pick. He's not great either, but at least he's an NHLer.

Wahlstrom will develop into a 20-30 goal, 50 point guy or better at this point. 

[Gravesy]

51 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

Bouchard, Wahlstrom, Dobson, Dellandrea — all better picks. Wahlstrom was the pick. He's not great either, but at least he's an NHLer.

Well yeah, like I said, the Rangers set fire to their pick. Most of that list would have been better selections. However, it’s not a great list of prospects. Iirc D was basically not in the conversation. I wanted Wahlstrom too and was fucking seething when they passed on him, but he’s completely underwhelming too. Obviously he’s here and playing which in and of itself is a huge upgrade on Kravtsov.

Not defending the pick at all, just saying that part of the draft wasn’t particularly strong in terms of forwards. 

 

[Gravesy]

2 hours ago, RangersIn7 said:

Point is… you had a pick at a spot where if you hadn’t gone off-board, you’d now have a player in hand that you would be pretty damn happy with. 

Maybe we’ve been watching different games, but I’m pretty sure no one would be “damn happy“ with Wahlstrom and what he’s been able to do so far.

[RangersIn7]

2 hours ago, Gravesy said:

Maybe we’ve been watching different games, but I’m pretty sure no one would be “damn happy“ with Wahlstrom and what he’s been able to do so far.

Fair enough.

 

But you can’t deny that picking him yielded a better result than picking the Commie did, does, or will. 

[RangersIn7]

2 hours ago, Gravesy said:

Maybe we’ve been watching different games, but I’m pretty sure no one would be “damn happy“ with Wahlstrom and what he’s been able to do so far.

I’d rather him than Kravtsov. He’s already established as an NHL player. 

No matter where he ends up, unless there’s some catastrophic consequences, he’s better than Kravtsov.

And he probably hits a 25-30 goal ceiling. With more maybe possible.

And guess what…? He had a top-10 grade and they passed.
And Bouchard and Dobson are both now considered top-4 NHL defensemen. And both RH too boot.

 

Its indefensible and none of the 3 picked behind him should be used in argument against that. 

Horrible.

In that draft.

With 2 other 1sts behind him, plus assets and cap space to move up and maneuver.

 

You can’t take a flyer there.

 

If they had Wahlstrom now… he’d not only be on the roster, but be part of the future plan and be figured in moving forward and we’d probably all be at least reasonably optimistic as to what might happen with him….

 

Vs..

 

A 7th round pick and William Lockwood. 

 

I’ll just take Oli and yeah…damn happy about it. 
 

 

 

[The Dude]

17 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said:

I’d rather him than Kravtsov. He’s already established as an NHL player. 

No matter where he ends up, unless there’s some catastrophic consequences, he’s better than Kravtsov.

And he probably hits a 25-30 goal ceiling. With more maybe possible.

And guess what…? He had a top-10 grade and they passed.
And Bouchard and Dobson are both now considered top-4 NHL defensemen. And both RH too boot.

 

Its indefensible and none of the 3 picked behind him should be used in argument against that. 

Horrible.

In that draft.

With 2 other 1sts behind him, plus assets and cap space to move up and maneuver.

 

You can’t take a flyer there.

 

If they had Wahlstrom now… he’d not only be on the roster, but be part of the future plan and be figured in moving forward and we’d probably all be at least reasonably optimistic as to what might happen with him….

 

Vs..

 

A 7th round pick and William Lockwood. 

 

I’ll just take Oli and yeah…damn happy about it. 
 

 

 

The move was to trade up to 4 after stupid Montreal passed on Tkachuk.

 

The 9 pick and the Boston pick from the Nash deal that they traded up for Miller with (or less). 

[RangersIn7]

3 hours ago, The Dude said:

The move was to trade up to 4 after stupid Montreal passed on Tkachuk.

 

The 9 pick and the Boston pick from the Nash deal that they traded up for Miller with (or less). 

You’re right except that they were unlikely to reach that high. 
 

And the price would’ve been higher than that. 

Edited May 26, 2023 by RangersIn7

[Gravesy]

10 hours ago, RangersIn7 said:

I’d rather him than Kravtsov. He’s already established as an NHL player. 

No matter where he ends up, unless there’s some catastrophic consequences, he’s better than Kravtsov.

 

Of course. Getting a functional if underwhelming 3rd liner is obviously far better than getting what in essence is nothing for the pick. I would have thought it’s obvious that wasn’t my point though. 
My point was simply that, if you look at the forwards on the board at the time it’s a distinctly meh group. Like I said, a horrific scouting job and I’m not defending the pick, just stating that it’s not as if the Rangers reached on Kravtsov in a position where they had their pick of a bunch of talented forwards. 
 

On Wahlstrom, he hasn’t been able to stay on the ice and his best season is 24 points. Again, would rather him than Kravtsov, but in reality he’s done nothing and I’m fairly certain Rangers fans would be quite far from “damn happy” with what he’s been able to do so far.

[Sharpshooter]

Maybe Krav wouldn't have been a bad NHL player if he was more committed and his attitude didn't suck. Because he did show some decent stretches of what could've been, albeit very few and very far between. He was a pretty good defensive player I thought, so that he could do. Yeah, that draft overall wasn't great but as others mentioned, a few of those guys I'd rather have over what we have now for it....nothing.

[The Dude]

12 hours ago, RangersIn7 said:

You’re right except that they were unlikely to reach that high. 
 

And the price would’ve been higher than that. 

We've seen less given up to slide up 5 slots. 

 

Doesn’t matter. Was just an observation. Not going to go back and forth on something that can't be undone. 

[Ozzy]

1 hour ago, The Dude said:

We've seen less given up to slide up 5 slots. 

 

Doesn’t matter. Was just an observation. Not going to go back and forth on something that can't be undone. 

 

Yup, I hear ya Dude man!!

 

We've spent probably more time on this douche bag than he deserves at this point.  Just wash our hands of this fucking clown and move forward.

 

What's done is done!