Serious Question — is Anyone Surprised Where the Rangers Are At?

[goondman]

So, I've been screaming since last season, for peeps not to get too excited as it was a fluke season; advising, that by (US) thanks giving(2022), fans would be calling for GG's removal. I also said we'd be out of playoff picture by now as well, which we might as well be. 

 

Is anyone really surprised where our beloved NYR are at?

[Morphinity 2.0]

Look around. No one is surprised. Disappointed for sure though. 

[Cash or Czech]

 

Disappointed. The team isn't living up to it's potential. 

Edited November 28, 2022 by Cash or Czech

[siddious]

Could you also give me the lottery numbers?

[goondman]

2 minutes ago, siddious said:

Could you also give me the lottery numbers?

Surely you jest 

[siddious]

1 minute ago, goondman said:

Surely you jest 

Only if you don’t really have them 

[goondman]

14 minutes ago, siddious said:

Only if you don’t really have them 

I don't, sorry

[Ozzy]

The sad part is that I don't think we've hit rock bottom yet!

 

[Phil]

I'm not surprised by what's happening. They've always been what they are — an elite PP and elite goaltender carrying a replacement-level 5v5 offensive and defensive team. But I am a little surprised by just how quickly they've come crashing back to earth after last season.

[Valriera]

I'm surprised. This team may not be eastern conference finals worthy and rode some lightning last year, but they are showing absolutely nothing that was consistent for them all last year. Swagger, competitiveness, and a never quit attitude won them a lot of games they had no business winning last year. This year they have none of it. 

 

I also maintain there is a certain element of bad luck here too. Through the first handful of games they were extremely unlucky not to have scored many more goals. Now? They're not even playing hard enough to earn the luck, so I backseat that argument to just the will to win until that returns. 

 

Last year this team came out in not one, but two playoff series and shellacked two very good teams in Carolina and Pittsburgh for multiple games in a row. They were hard to play against. I'm surprised that this element is gone and it feels very much like a four year step backwards to me, especially after that Edmonton disaster. 

[Sharpshooter]

@Valrieranailed it, plus they're not getting the otherworldly goaltending they got last year also which obviously won them a lot of games. Shesterkin has just been alright so far and a couple of extra goals against each game or so is going to make a huge difference.

[Pete]

We now have multiple data points confirming what we knew to be true last year, that they can't score at 5v5 and they can't defend either. The more chances they got this year, the more chances they gave up. Now that Shesterkin looks normal (I'm astonished by how many people assumed he's just run back out another .930 season just like that, that was an awful bet to make), Kreider is back to who he is, there's a lot of mistakes not being covered.

 

Last year they were never as good as their record indicated, and this year they're not as bad as what we've seen on the ice—Coaching is clearly the issue. I've never seen the wheels fall off this quickly...A handful of games in and you see Trouba and ZIb shell shocked in the post game presser, now you've got GG saying "They need to figure it out" and Kreider saying he doesn't know why no one does what they should be doing...Supreme lack of leadership from the coach to the guys wearing letters.

[Ozzy]

6 minutes ago, Pete said:

We now have multiple data points confirming what we knew to be true last year, that they can't score at 5v5 and they can't defend either. The more chances they got this year, the more chances they gave up. Now that Shesterkin looks normal (I'm astonished by how many people assumed he's just run back out another .930 season just like that, that was an awful bet to make), Kreider is back to who he is, there's a lot of mistakes not being covered.

 

Last year they were never as good as their record indicated, and this year they're not as bad as what we've seen on the ice—Coaching is clearly the issue. I've never seen the wheels fall off this quickly...A handful of games in and you see Trouba and ZIb shell shocked in the post game presser, now you've got GG saying "They need to figure it out" and Kreider saying he doesn't know why no one does what they should be doing...Supreme lack of leadership from the coach to the guys wearing letters.

 

A couple of you guys called this last year, so that's why I'm really NOT surprised.  I remember reading more than a few posts last season saying that we really can't continue to roll on smoke and mirrors. 

Igor masked a ton of breadowns and mistakes and the PP more than made up for our 5v5 shortcomings.  So yeah, I'm not as shocked as to the way things are shaking out right now.

 

I don't think we are THIS bad though.  Unfortunately, I also don't think we're going to get a whole lot better without some changes.  I'll be surprised if they cut Gallant loose though.  I'm thinking that trip to the ECF bought him some rope.  Albeit he's used up a lot of it of late.  I'd think January at the earliest for a last ditch effort to make the playoffs.

[RangersIn7]

Not too surprised as the issues didn’t seem to get corrected and they were reliant on PP and goaltending that was stratospherically good.

 

But maybe they need this adversity. 

[Phil]

27 minutes ago, Pete said:

We now have multiple data points confirming what we knew to be true last year, that they can't score at 5v5 and they can't defend either. The more chances they got this year, the more chances they gave up. Now that Shesterkin looks normal (I'm astonished by how many people assumed he's just run back out another .930 season just like that, that was an awful bet to make), Kreider is back to who he is, there's a lot of mistakes not being covered.

 

Last year they were never as good as their record indicated, and this year they're not as bad as what we've seen on the ice—Coaching is clearly the issue. I've never seen the wheels fall off this quickly...A handful of games in and you see Trouba and ZIb shell shocked in the post game presser, now you've got GG saying "They need to figure it out" and Kreider saying he doesn't know why no one does what they should be doing...Supreme lack of leadership from the coach to the guys wearing letters.

 

[Sharpshooter]

52 minutes ago, Pete said:

We now have multiple data points confirming what we knew to be true last year, that they can't score at 5v5 and they can't defend either. The more chances they got this year, the more chances they gave up. Now that Shesterkin looks normal (I'm astonished by how many people assumed he's just run back out another .930 season just like that, that was an awful bet to make), Kreider is back to who he is, there's a lot of mistakes not being covered.

 

Last year they were never as good as their record indicated, and this year they're not as bad as what we've seen on the ice—Coaching is clearly the issue. I've never seen the wheels fall off this quickly...A handful of games in and you see Trouba and ZIb shell shocked in the post game presser, now you've got GG saying "They need to figure it out" and Kreider saying he doesn't know why no one does what they should be doing...Supreme lack of leadership from the coach to the guys wearing letters.

When I heard Kreider say that, I was like, "Oh, boy".

[cupalife]

The playoff run last year might have been a terrible thing for this team.  They were getting shit on by the Pens when Crosby was healthy.  He get's hurt and the Rangers were finally able to take advantage of the third string goalie they were playing with.  The Canes series was again against a backup goalie and we see now that the Canes were a little overrated anyway.  

 

The Rangers are not a good hockey team and they'll get worse as the game tightens up.  The only thing that would give hope is that Igor and many others do have more in them.  Igor can go on a hot streak and carry this team into a playoff spot.  The 5 on 5 play is beyond alarming though.  This team needs major major changes to it's roster.  Everyone other than Igor should be on the table.   

[Sharpshooter]

4 minutes ago, cupalife said:

The playoff run last year might have been a terrible thing for this team.  They were getting shit on by the Pens when Crosby was healthy.  He get's hurt and the Rangers were finally able to take advantage of the third string goalie they were playing with.  The Canes series was again against a backup goalie and we see now that the Canes were a little overrated anyway.  

 

The Rangers are not a good hockey team and they'll get worse as the game tightens up.  The only thing that would give hope is that Igor and many others do have more in them.  Igor can go on a hot streak and carry this team into a playoff spot.  The 5 on 5 play is beyond alarming though.  This team needs major major changes to it's roster.  Everyone other than Igor should be on the table.   

The team is kind of a hodge podge of different players from two different General Managers, and it feels like kind of a cluster. That on top of a coach that has no answers except, "Just ask them", or, "Let them deal with it". Not good.

[Pete]

19 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

The team is kind of a hodge podge of different players from two different General Managers, and it feels like kind of a cluster. That on top of a coach that has no answers except, "Just ask them", or, "Let them deal with it". Not good.

I don't know that I really agree with this because Drury was AGM and part of the plan.

 

The issue is they edited around the margins. They basically swapped out Strome from Trocheck in a move that looked great on paper, but not to much on the ice. Trocheck looks fine, he just doesn't look good with Panarin.

 

So you replaced a perimeter player with one who plays more in traffic and thought "Cool, we're done here! Let's just give young guys larger roles and count on a young, perimeter, soft player to round the top 9....And we'll just not worry about play without the puck, at all."

[Scott]

imo there's concerns throughout from the GM, coach and players.  Their stars aren't performing and on many occasions have been sleep walking and just flat out making brain dead plays.  Being caught out of position, not tying up sticks or taking the body, playing soft as baby shit on the perimeter.  Their kids (Laf, Kakko and Krav) all given top 6 roles have failed in those roles, that hurts on top of the bigger names struggling as mentioned.  The top two lines have RWs that have no business being there but are because we truly don't have better. Sorry swapping Gauthier up there is plug for plug. It truly doesn't solve a massive problem, it's more lipstick on the pig.

 

Igor has proven to be human, their defense is easy to play against, Trouba running around like a headless chicken.  As a group making mistakes kids learn not to make when they first start lacing them up game after game.

 

The smoke and mirrors are gone.  The coach will eventually lose his job, at best I think they will see a dead cat bounce with the right coaching change but ultimately I believe this team is flawed in many ways with way too many under performing passionless passengers.

 

In all the post game interviews I've seen from our Capt and leaders I haven't heard one guy say "I've gotta be better"  and especially for Trouba he should be saying "It starts with me",  not once from any of them.  What I do hear is "we know what we have to do" or "we got away from our game". Everybody keeps kicking the can down the road.

[Sharpshooter]

1 minute ago, Pete said:

I don't know that I really agree with this because Drury was AGM and part of the plan.

 

The issue is they edited around the margins. They basically swapped out Strome from Trocheck in a move that looked great on paper, but not to much on the ice. Trocheck looks fine, he just doesn't look good with Panarin.

 

So you replaced a perimeter player with one who plays more in traffic and thought "Cool, we're done here! Let's just give young guys larger roles and count on a young, perimeter, soft player to round the top 9....And we'll just not worry about play without the puck, at all."

He was, but he's now the main guy making personnel decisions. I don't know if that factors in to anything, and if they would've wound up making the same moves if Gorton and JD were still here. Given the cap restraints they were depending on Kakko, Chytil and Lafreniere to continue to improve and be big contributors. It's happened to a degree with Chytil and Kakko (I guess). I feel like Lafreniere has taken a step back with how he looked in the second half of the season and into the playoffs.

[Morphinity 2.0]

5 minutes ago, jsrangers said:

imo there's concerns throughout from the GM, coach and players.  Their stars aren't performing and on many occasions have been sleep walking and just flat out making brain dead plays.  Being caught out of position, not tying up sticks or taking the body, playing soft as baby shit on the perimeter.  Their kids (Laf, Kakko and Krav) all given top 6 roles have failed in those roles, that hurts on top of the bigger names struggling as mentioned.  The top two lines have RWs that have no business being there but are because we truly don't have better. Sorry swapping Gauthier up there is plug for plug. It truly doesn't solve a massive problem, it's more lipstick on the pig.

 

Igor has proven to be human, their defense is easy to play against, Trouba running around like a headless chicken.  As a group making mistakes kids learn not to make when they first start lacing them up game after game.

 

The smoke and mirrors are gone.  The coach will eventually lose his job, at best I think they will see a dead cat bounce with the right coaching change but ultimately I believe this team is flawed in many ways with way too many under performing passionless passengers.

 

In all the post game interviews I've seen from our Capt and leaders I haven't heard one guy say "I've gotta be better"  and especially for Trouba he should be saying "It starts with me",  not once from any of them.  What I do hear is "we know what we have to do" or "we got away from our game". Everybody keeps kicking the can down the road.

I think, with the right structure, this team could perform very well. That's why so many are hoping for Trotz, not just because he's the sexy free agent.

 

Some of their depth still isn't up to snuff, but getting more out of the kids and actually having a defensive scheme that resembles something coherent would be a big boon for this team.

[deejaid]

This team is soft, no doubt about it, but to give up this many third period leads, to play down to weaker opponents, it is a culture problem.   This group of players, particularly the core,  have shown they can't fix this amongst themselves.  They need a coach that can lead them.  Gallant just says 'It's up to them to figure it out".  That's bullshit.  It's up to the players to play the game to the gameplan as dictated by the coach, which I don't even really see if Gallant has a plan.

 

I harp on my kids all the time that determination is much more important to achieving success than talent.  Here we have a team with tons of talent, but no determination.

Edited November 28, 2022 by deejaid

[Bugg]

Looking back at spring 2022 run, and especially this game. Looking at the  results of the 1st 2 rounds, they played with fire over and over. They would get leads and not hold them. There is no defensive structure. And there's no direction from the coach. Which is how you go from being 25 minutes from going up 3-0 in a conference finals to getting closed out in short order. This has been a hallmark of Gallant's teams.; they jump out like rabbits and have no idea how take the game to the end.A complete lack of focus on the basics.  Saturday was the latest example. They don't make teams go the length of the ice. They make stupid entries; why the hell does Panarin insist on stickhandliing at the blue instead of just going into the zone Saturday? You would be hard pressed to find a hockey team that appears to be so disinterested in scoring goals. And once they get caught, it's over.  It's lazy and lacking any direction. Picture Trouba getting the stick knocked out his hands forever. 

 

https://www.hockey-reference.com/boxscores/202206050TBL.html

Edited November 28, 2022 by Bugg

[Scott]

1 hour ago, Morphinity 2.0 said:

I think, with the right structure, this team could perform very well. That's why so many are hoping for Trotz, not just because he's the sexy free agent.

 

Some of their depth still isn't up to snuff, but getting more out of the kids and actually having a defensive scheme that resembles something coherent would be a big boon for this team.

Hope you're right. I just disagree that it's mostly coaching and a lack of a plan. The one thing the players at least have been saying until the last 2 (I haven't watched the post games) is they gotten away from their game, they know what to do they just have to execute. Now if you want to say fire the coach, I'm good with it. I think it runs way deeper than that. I think it's great GG publically called them out saying they have to figure it out. His top players do have to figure it out, they've been meh and playing dumb lazy hockey at times. Like somebody else pointed out for many some of these guys it's gonna the third coach with the same shit. Even if some of the players have changed the song remains the same.  I think what we're seeing this year is what this group is compared to where they ended up last year.  I wonder if they all bought into their own hype and didn't truly realize how they got as far as they did.  It was a combination of things that were highly unlikely to ever happen again. 

 

How many guys are going the wrong way vs. improving?  So the coach will go, eventually.

 

I think they are where they stand a borderline playoff team.

Edited November 28, 2022 by jsrangers