Rangers Re-Sign Kaapo Kakko to 2-Year/$4.2M Extension; $2.1M AAV

[Pete]

8 hours ago, CCCP said:

I believe you will be wrong. I believe Laf will come around and dominate. He’s the whole package. He’s everything you’d want in a player—can pass, can score, physical, take no shit kind of player. It will just take him a little longer than we all would hope. He’s the future captain!!

I believe you're high. 

[Phil]

3 hours ago, Gravesy said:

I'm not sure your definition of slam dunk vs consensus is the dictionary version of not, but I would've thought my point was pretty clear. 

There's no point going down the road of "The Rangers should've taken player X instead of Kakko" or "player Y instead of Lafreniere" with the benefit of hindsight. Because, when the Rangers were on the clock, taking anyone other than the players they took would've been insanity and would've gone done as something like top 10 reaches of all time. The fact neither of them has panned out so far is a combination of bad luck, situation and the Rangers as a developmental organization. And possibly also the hockey community as a whole under rating the importance of skating and foot speed for prospects in the modern game.

But like I said, literally every GM past and present would've taken those two when it was time to turn the card in.

Whether or how you pay them is a separate discussion, and one where I think we're aligned.

 

I have no issue whatsoever with how the Rangers develop. They made stupid promises they couldn't keep with guys like Kravtsov, but the actual process of bringing guys along is just fine. No better or worse than any other team, no matter what Twitter would have you believe. If the Rangers were guilty of "ruining" players, it wouldn't happen so selectively, but much more often. The success of Schneider, Miller, Chytil, etc is literal evidence that "The Rangers don't know how to develop players/first round picks" is absolute nonsense.

[jsm7302]

1 minute ago, Phil said:

 

I have no issue whatsoever with how the Rangers develop. They made stupid promises they couldn't keep with guys like Kravtsov, but the actual process of bringing guys along is just fine. No better or worse than any other team, no matter what Twitter would have you believe. If the Rangers were guilty of "ruining" players, it wouldn't happen so selectively, but much more often. The success of Schneider, Miller, Chytil, etc is literal evidence that "The Rangers don't know how to develop players/first round picks" is absolute nonsense.

Team needs vs individual needs is the argument at hand. The former will always trump the latter. However, an organization that has more of a balance may see success from prospects quicker. Laf and Kakko both struggled and could have used some time in the A to gain confidence and acclimate to playing with men. The team needed them on this roster and crossed every body part available that they would figure it out and succeed. It has taken longer than expected but both have semi come around. They aren't what they were projected to be but they are serviceable on an NHL roster. To some that is acceptable and others it isn't. 

 

At this point we have to live with those decisions of management. I just wish we drafted for org needs as opposed to BPA. 

[Cash or Czech]

11 hours ago, Phil said:

 

This is a nonsense, unfalsifiable argument that permanently paints the player as a victim and absolves them of any potential wrongdoing or responsibility in their own development.

 

Did the Rangers "ruin" Lias Andersson and Vitali Kravtsov, too? Must be why they're not doing shit for other orgs. They were "ruined" here.

 

If you wanna make it relevant to him, don't forget Gauthier.

[BrooksBurner]

13 hours ago, The Dude said:

Kakko has that body language again. The unsure of himself,  questioning his own existence and fear of fucking up look on his face. 

 

I'll always say the Rangers ruined him.

Agree with the first part. I don’t agree about the Rangers part. I think that’s just him and his personality. It’s been that way since damn near day one.

[Phil]

59 minutes ago, jsm7302 said:

Team needs vs individual needs is the argument at hand. The former will always trump the latter. However, an organization that has more of a balance may see success from prospects quicker. Laf and Kakko both struggled and could have used some time in the A to gain confidence and acclimate to playing with men. The team needed them on this roster and crossed every body part available that they would figure it out and succeed. It has taken longer than expected but both have semi come around. They aren't what they were projected to be but they are serviceable on an NHL roster. To some that is acceptable and others it isn't. 

 

At this point we have to live with those decisions of management. I just wish we drafted for org needs as opposed to BPA. 

 

Sure. I argued the same. Laf couldn't go to the A, for the record, but I still don't think it's some damning indictment of the Rangers' ability to develop young players when literal young, first-round players are simultaneously developing all around the usual suspects.

 

At some point, you simply have to look at players and say "he is what he is."

 

But I do agree that scouts probably need to take a much more serious look at how they grade prospects who can't skate well. It's a major issue in the modern game. Especially for expected top-end forwards.

[Albatrosss]

3 hours ago, Pete said:

I believe you're high. 

You’re not wrong but i stand by what i think of Laf. 

[Pete]

1 minute ago, CCCP said:

You’re not wrong but i stand by what i think of Laf. 

Precisely. 

[Albatrosss]

14 minutes ago, Pete said:

Precisely. 

Can you tell what im wearing?

[Phil]

5 minutes ago, CCCP said:

Can you tell what im wearing?

 

That's easy. Nothing on bottom. T-shirt on top.

[Gravesy]

2 hours ago, Phil said:

 

I have no issue whatsoever with how the Rangers develop. They made stupid promises they couldn't keep with guys like Kravtsov, but the actual process of bringing guys along is just fine. No better or worse than any other team, no matter what Twitter would have you believe. If the Rangers were guilty of "ruining" players, it wouldn't happen so selectively, but much more often. The success of Schneider, Miller, Chytil, etc is literal evidence that "The Rangers don't know how to develop players/first round picks" is absolute nonsense.

I don't think their success with homegrown players compares particularly favorably with any of the successful organizations in the past couple of decades. But that's not really the point here. The point is that the two guys were drafted by a good team, who are trying to win now, who aren't really in the business of sacrificing short term success for the development of young players and where they subsequently were never going to be handed anything. As opposed to most other top 2 picks who typically get long leashes on the 1st line and PP1, which has a tendency to fast track development.

That being said, I feel pretty comfortable in saying that regardless of who drafted them, these two guys were never the franchise altering pieces they were sold as. They probably have absolute ceilings of good to very good 2nd line wingers.

[Pete]

1 hour ago, CCCP said:

Can you tell what im wearing?

A look of shame and regret.

[jsm7302]

39 minutes ago, Gravesy said:

I don't think their success with homegrown players compares particularly favorably with any of the successful organizations in the past couple of decades. But that's not really the point here. The point is that the two guys were drafted by a good team, who are trying to win now, who aren't really in the business of sacrificing short term success for the development of young players and where they subsequently were never going to be handed anything. As opposed to most other top 2 picks who typically get long leashes on the 1st line and PP1, which has a tendency to fast track development.

That being said, I feel pretty comfortable in saying that regardless of who drafted them, these two guys were never the franchise altering pieces they were sold as. They probably have absolute ceilings of good to very good 2nd line wingers.

That would be nice....30g/30a or 20g/40a guys.

 

I'd take that over 40 point career highs....

[Albatrosss]

50 minutes ago, Pete said:

A look of shame and regret.

you looked into my soul.  Can you also tell that i'm extremely horny right now?

[Ozzy]

I'm hoping that Kakko is picking up on how Tarasenko plays.  I would like to envision Kakko becoming a similar player.  They're both pretty good skaters, have wicked shots, and it looks like Kakko is going to be a bigger, stronger winger like Tarasenko.

 

I think it's pretty fortunate to get a guy like Tank in here right now, the kids can pick up things from him.....especially Kakko.

[Pete]

2 minutes ago, CCCP said:

you looked into my soul.  Can you also tell that i'm extremely horny right now?

Hence the shame and regret. That poor dog of yours...

[Pete]

2 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

I'm hoping that Kakko is picking up on how Tarasenko plays.  I would like to envision Kakko becoming a similar player.  They're both pretty good skaters, have wicked shots, and it looks like Kakko is going to be a bigger, stronger winger like Tarasenko.

 

I think it's pretty fortunate to get a guy like Tank in here right now, the kids can pick up things from him.....especially Kakko.

Kakko had one play last game when the Rangers were skating right to left, he was at the top of the screen in the corner and pulled the sickest cutback...Canes were so faked that he had a huge lane right to the net, and instead of exploiting that lane, he cut back again for no reason...And skated right back into the confused mess of players who's ankles he just broke.

 

If he makes better decisions on plays like that, the sky is the limit.

Edited March 23, 2023 by Pete

[Ozzy]

Just now, Pete said:

Kakko had one play last game when the Rangers were skating right to left, he was at the top of the screen in the corner and pulled the sickest cutback...Canes were so faked that he had a huge lane right to the net, and instead of exploiting that lane, he cut back again for no reason.

 

If he makes better decisions on plays like that, the sky is the limit.

 

That's the play, and a few in the Pittsburgh game that I wish he would bull his way to the net and maybe if not score, draw a penalty.

 

I guess he'll get there.  But I see it in him!

[Ozzy]

I'm starting to see a personality on these kids.  Kakko seems like a shy kid, and I can understand that, especially being in America as a Fin...but once he drops that shy shit, this kid's gonna break out.

 

I can't help it, I really like the kid and see so much he can do.

Laff is a goofball, but he has plenty of talent too.  He's got some work to do on his skating, but he has the hands and the IQ.

I'm not even concerned about K'.  He just needs someone to show him the way, as Peter Frampton once put it so eloquently. 

[Albatrosss]

18 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

I'm starting to see a personality on these kids.  Kakko seems like a shy kid, and I can understand that, especially being in America as a Fin...but once he drops that shy shit, this kid's gonna break out.

 

I can't help it, I really like the kid and see so much he can do.

Laff is a goofball, but he has plenty of talent too.  He's got some work to do on his skating, but he has the hands and the IQ.

I'm not even concerned about K'.  He just needs someone to show him the way, as Peter Frampton once put it so eloquently. 

its not Miller's first year playing defense.  you'd think someone showed him how to play defense by now.  i just dont think he's got it between the years to be a solid dman

[Albatrosss]

28 minutes ago, Pete said:

Hence the shame and regret. That poor dog of yours...

leave your relatives out of this

[Tomas Sandstrom]

Just want to point out you are talking about kids...one who just turned 22 (Kakko) and a 21 year old (Laf).  

 

Question to those of you who want to call them busts or want to get rid of them:

Do you really not think they will improve as they get older and mature?   

 

This whole discussion is sort of silly to me...and I know we can go back and find similar silly discussions about Chytil when he was a similar age.

 

Yes, in a perfect world, you would draft an 18 year old kid with a high draft pick, and when they are 19 they are playing on line 1 and scoring 30 goals and 30 assists.    But the world doesn't always work that way.

 

Look, if in 3 years, these guys aren't producing much more than they are now, I will agree with you.  But, my lord, can we give them some time to develop and mature?  Can we at least give them until they are 23 years old?  

 

 

Patience is a virtue.

 

[Pete]

17 minutes ago, CCCP said:

leave your relatives out of this

No. Because your relatives really like me. Like....a lot.

[Albatrosss]

1 minute ago, Pete said:

No. Because your relatives really like me. Like....a lot.

no one likes you, they just put up with you....a lot

[Pete]

10 minutes ago, Tomas Sandstrom said:

Just want to point out you are talking about kids...one who just turned 22 (Kakko) and a 21 year old (Laf).  

 

Question to those of you who want to call them busts or want to get rid of them:

Do you really not think they will improve as they get older and mature?   

 

This whole discussion is sort of silly to me...and I know we can go back and find similar silly discussions about Chytil when he was a similar age.

 

Yes, in a perfect world, you would draft an 18 year old kid with a high draft pick, and when they are 19 they are playing on line 1 and scoring 30 goals and 30 assists.    But the world doesn't always work that way.

 

Look, if in 3 years, these guys aren't producing much more than they are now, I will agree with you.  But, my lord, can we give them some time to develop and mature?  Can we at least give them until they are 23 years old?  

 

 

Patience is a virtue.

 

Kakko and Chytil I'm willing to be patient with.

 

Lafreniere can't skate, can't create, decent shot he never gets off or on net, no vision, not good one on one.

 

There's no "there" there. It's been this way since he came into the league. Kakko had something but couldn't skate. He really worked on it. Chytil always oozed offensive potential, his problem is health and consistency.

 

Lafreniere has been...this...since he came into the league. He's JAG.