GDT 2021-22 ECSF #2: (2M) Rangers at (1M) Carolina Hurricanes — Check That Tone

[The Dude]

20 hours ago, Keirik said:

I was saying mostly this before the playoffs started. His game is meant for the regular season and I didn’t think he really had all that amazing of a season. Lowest goal total of his career in a full season when he’s meant to be one of the go to guys. He’s a shell of what he was his first year here. 
 

Compound his cap hit and adding in Fox himself jumps up to 9.5m next year. Has his play been anywhere near that cap hit? This is why I wanted him handsomely bridged at like 7m instead. 9.5m I expect more on both sides of the ice. 11.5m I expect someone that’s a potential game changer on every shift, not just ones in November. 
 

 

   They ain’t dead yet but it’s getting late awfully early. 

 

I think ever since this happened,  he's been a different player. He's definitely banged up, but there's no excuse for his brain dead decisions with the puck. He has zero jump in his legs. This is a different player than the one we saw prior to Wilson or maybe even before that absence for a month last season with that Putin stuff. 

 

 

[josh]

7 hours ago, G1000 said:

I'm just throwing this out there as a potential thing: is it entirely possible that there was an acceptable effort last night and Carolina is just extremely good at defensive hockey?

You’ll never see Carolina play that poorly for consecutive games ever again.

 

[Keirik]

1 hour ago, The Dude said:

 

I think ever since this happened,  he's been a different player. He's definitely banged up, but there's no excuse for his brain dead decisions with the puck. He has zero jump in his legs. This is a different player than the one we saw prior to Wilson or maybe even before that absence for a month last season with that Putin stuff. 

 

 

I dont really buy the banged up part. Who isn’t? It’s the playoffs. He certainly looked fine celebrating his ot goal against the Pens. He just looks like he only wants to pass. Personally, I think a lot of this is on Gallant. He’s a players coach to the extreme. He’s even said it in an earlier press conference that he’s not going to tell a player how to play. That’s fine but it works if the player has the intelligence to read the game, situation, style, etc. It starts to go bad though when that player takes it too far and has cart blanc like Panarin does. It also seems a bit contagious with some of the other guys too. I’ve watched Ziby do it, I’ve watched Fox do it, and I’ve watched Kreider do it. Frankly, the player that seems to understand the moment in terms of getting pucks on the net mostly is Strome. He has a muffin though but at least he uses it. 

[SaveByRichter35]

Its as if Panarin has completely forgotten his own comment after winning game 7.  Something along the lines of "I guess I need to start shooting more", or whatever it was he said.

[The Dude]

2 hours ago, Keirik said:

I dont really buy the banged up part. Who isn’t? It’s the playoffs. He certainly looked fine celebrating his ot goal against the Pens. He just looks like he only wants to pass. Personally, I think a lot of this is on Gallant. He’s a players coach to the extreme. He’s even said it in an earlier press conference that he’s not going to tell a player how to play. That’s fine but it works if the player has the intelligence to read the game, situation, style, etc. It starts to go bad though when that player takes it too far and has cart blanc like Panarin does. It also seems a bit contagious with some of the other guys too. I’ve watched Ziby do it, I’ve watched Fox do it, and I’ve watched Kreider do it. Frankly, the player that seems to understand the moment in terms of getting pucks on the net mostly is Strome. He has a muffin though but at least he uses it. 

He and Copp were hot coming into the playoffs, then they both got hurt and missed a game or 2 to end the season (i think fox too). They both haven't looked very aggressive ever since. 

 

Thats why I think they are banged up. I don't think you can gauge if a player is injured by looking at their goal celebration. 

 

Panarin is an elite player. He's not going to go out there and suck because.... he wants to. 

 

I think it's pretty obvious something is bothering him. Copp too. Strome is just cold. To me Zibanejad and Kreider look exhausted and burnt out. As does Fox. 

 

IMO, the abundance of icetime given all season to the top 6, has taken its toll.  All the special teams minutes probably did a number on their bodies. They've had no legs upon entering the playoffs. Distribution of icetime through the special teams should have been managed more. Both PP and the PK personnel. 

 

These guys are shot. I don't think it's a matter of wanting it or being bad. 

 

[Keirik]

9 minutes ago, The Dude said:

He and Copp were hot coming into the playoffs, then they both got hurt and missed a game or 2 to end the season (i think fox too). They both haven't looked very aggressive ever since. 

 

Thats why I think they are banged up. I don't think you can gauge if a player is injured by looking at their goal celebration. 

 

Panarin is an elite player. He's not going to go out there and suck because.... he wants to. 

 

I think it's pretty obvious something is bothering him. Copp too. Strome is just cold. To me Zibanejad and Kreider look exhausted and burnt out. As does Fox. 

 

IMO, the abundance of icetime given all season to the top 6, has taken its toll.  All the special teams minutes probably did a number on their bodies. They've had no legs upon entering the playoffs. Distribution of icetime through the special teams should have been managed more. Both PP and the PK personnel. 

 

These guys are shot. I don't think it's a matter of wanting it or being bad. 

 

Well, I never said he was going out there to intentionally suck because he wants to. He doesn’t even suck. He’s just not at the level he needs to be and this team needs him with his decision making. That’s not an injury.  Fox, Copp, et al are different issues. Panarin might have a nagging issue but it’s not stopping him from curling into the middle and dishing it off or flipping it around passing it behind his back, or doing all the little dipsy doodling to get in a shooting position.  
 

If we are going to try and say an injury is preventing him from going into the hard places then fine. I don’t agree with it since he’s been that way all year but whatever.  He’s just simply not shooting as much as he used to. 
his first year here he had 209 shots in 69 games.

this year? 177.  Shot attempts are down as well. He’s just simply falling in love with setting up the sweet assist and on his line that’s not acceptable. 

[The Dude]

36 minutes ago, Keirik said:

Well, I never said he was going out there to intentionally suck because he wants to. He doesn’t even suck. He’s just not at the level he needs to be and this team needs him with his decision making. That’s not an injury.  Fox, Copp, et al are different issues. Panarin might have a nagging issue but it’s not stopping him from curling into the middle and dishing it off or flipping it around passing it behind his back, or doing all the little dipsy doodling to get in a shooting position.  
 

 

 

Well if it's an arm, elbow, wrist or hand issue, it sure would affect his decision making because he's less likely to be able to do what you're asking here. 

 

He does suck right now. His decision making is really bad and while we all expect some turn overs from him, he's just been terrible and maddening. 

 

Like I said. He was getting hot prior to the playoffs. Copp had injected new life into that line and had a lot of us raving about how all Panarin needed alllll season was a legit player to play RW. 

 

They both came back more quickly than anyone thought. They look like shit since coming back.  Sure, we all expect these guys to just tough it out. Sometimes you just can't.  

 

I'd rather believe they are ailing over them not wanting to do what they made careers of doing,  for whatever reason you're thinking it is.

 

Panarin has 35 points in 39 playoff games. It's not like he's typically a no show come post season.  There's more there than a guy that just overthinks or does whatever he wants. To me his demeanor is of a guy in discomfort and duress. Just what I'm seeing. 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 22, 2022 by The Dude

[Keirik]

10 hours ago, The Dude said:

 

 

Well if it's an arm, elbow, wrist or hand issue, it sure would affect his decision making because he's less likely to be able to do what you're asking here. 

 

He does suck right now. His decision making is really bad and while we all expect some turn overs from him, he's just been terrible and maddening. 

 

Like I said. He was getting hot prior to the playoffs. Copp had injected new life into that line and had a lot of us raving about how all Panarin needed alllll season was a legit player to play RW. 

 

They both came back more quickly than anyone thought. They look like shit since coming back.  Sure, we all expect these guys to just tough it out. Sometimes you just can't.  

 

I'd rather believe they are ailing over them not wanting to do what they made careers of doing,  for whatever reason you're thinking it is.

 

Panarin has 35 points in 39 playoff games. It's not like he's typically a no show come post season.  There's more there than a guy that just overthinks or does whatever he wants. To me his demeanor is of a guy in discomfort and duress. Just what I'm seeing. 

 

 

 

 

Panarin literally took some slap shots during the Penguin series I believe.  And Copp has nothing to do with Panarin. You keep folding other guys in the conversation about Artemi Panarin. I’d rather believe what is exactly being presented in front of us. Panarin has made jokes all year about preferring to pass to shooting. 
 

the only evidence of it being due to a lingering issue is him missing the last few games of the regular season because of a back issue I believe. The evidence of him preferring to pass rather than shoot comes from an entire year worth of evidence, interviews of him saying it, etc. This isn’t new. 

[The Dude]

3 hours ago, Keirik said:

Panarin literally took some slap shots during the Penguin series I believe.  And Copp has nothing to do with Panarin. You keep folding other guys in the conversation about Artemi Panarin. I’d rather believe what is exactly being presented in front of us. Panarin has made jokes all year about preferring to pass to shooting. 
 

the only evidence of it being due to a lingering issue is him missing the last few games of the regular season because of a back issue I believe. The evidence of him preferring to pass rather than shoot comes from an entire year worth of evidence, interviews of him saying it, etc. This isn’t new. 

Copp only PLAYS with Panarin....  and got hurt the same day. It's relevant to talk about.  They are linemates. They both were playing really good with each other prior to their injuries.

 

Folding other guys into the conversation? Are you gonna throw in the proverbial stay on topic line Pe, errr Keirik?

 

The only evidence of a lingering injury is that he fucking sucks right now and he isn't leaning into any contact or any wrist shots. 

 

His talking about the preference to pass instead of shoot is more tongue in cheek in my opinion and is a joke/ shot at people suggesting to an elite player on how to play. " Maybe I should listen to the people who keep telling me to shoot more" is not a serious comment. 

 

Copp being pedestrian as well as Strome is a relevant addition to the topic, because of how good they WERE playing together and are also not looking very good. Panarin needs support. 

[Keirik]

8 hours ago, The Dude said:

Copp only PLAYS with Panarin....  and got hurt the same day. It's relevant to talk about.  They are linemates. They both were playing really good with each other prior to their injuries.

 

Folding other guys into the conversation? Are you gonna throw in the proverbial stay on topic line Pe, errr Keirik?

 

The only evidence of a lingering injury is that he fucking sucks right now and he isn't leaning into any contact or any wrist shots. 

 

His talking about the preference to pass instead of shoot is more tongue in cheek in my opinion and is a joke/ shot at people suggesting to an elite player on how to play. " Maybe I should listen to the people who keep telling me to shoot more" is not a serious comment. 

 

Copp being pedestrian as well as Strome is a relevant addition to the topic, because of how good they WERE playing together and are also not looking very good. Panarin needs support. 

So before Copp arrived, Panarin was what, just moderate? Copp has nothing to do with Breads performance. Copps performance might. Strome has little to do with Breads performance. Stromes performance might. Bread brought his star with him. He’s just decided to evolve into trying to make others stars in games we need his star to shine in the first place.  
 

   Honestly, what is the Keirik err Pe supposed to mean?  I discuss that Panarin isnt doing the things he was doing say year one here. He’s rapidly falling in love with just passing at all costs. You disagree? Fine.ignore the statistics. Then just leave it at that. I’m Keith, or Keirik. Pete is his own man. Why even go there? And you do it so often.  

  Panarin is doing full wind ups and shooting. Or rolling his wrists with behind the back passes. Or slap passing like he did today which led to our first goal. Worked today but we still need the Panarin of 19/20 right now. Guys like him are brought in for these moments. And to bring it every single game. 
 

 My comments are about Panarin falling in love with passing. Telling me I’m being someone else is just ridiculous. Telling me it’s an injury serious enough to not allow him to shoot when there is little proof to that right now doesn’t hold much in my eyes. Telling me he needs help in a discussion about him not shooting when all he does is dish it off is just odd. 

[The Dude]

Panarin had 23 points in his final 16 games of the regular season, with Copp as his linemate. 9 of which were goals.

 

I don't know how you don't understand how much better the line AND Panarin were in that time span. It had a shit ton to do with Copp. Star players can benefit by playing with players that have actual hockey skills. 

 

Copp opened up the ice for Panarin to GET to the high traffic areas, to get better shots off.

 

Neither are comfortable in playing the way they were in March and April. Usually that is due to something physical (they both got injured at seasons end and haven't been the same since). Not just some random decision to play pussy hockey after a month plus of playing differently.

 

If you want to argue that it's something mental and the 2 of them are scared of playing at a high level, I'd like to hear why you think a player would just decide to do so. Especially Copp. Panarin, I could maybe agree he's got some lingering fear from the Tom Wilson incident. 

 

You want to talk about how Panarin was better in year 1 here? Well look who he played with as his RW, the years after. Blackwell  and Hunt. Theres your answer. Plain as day. Insert Copp and he fucking took off. Talk about ignoring the stats 

 

You can't look at Panarin in the vacuum that you are. There ARE variables. There were obvious ups and downs in his performances and to me it's quite obvious it had a lot to do with his linemates.

 

You won't agree on that.

 

I think that's a straight up fact. As good as Panarin can be, he is better when he has support. You see it differently and won't budge on this and feel the need to dismiss the fact and the stats, because... well because you say so. 

 

 

 

 

[Keirik]

5 hours ago, The Dude said:

Panarin had 23 points in his final 16 games of the regular season, with Copp as his linemate. 9 of which were goals.

 

I don't know how you don't understand how much better the line AND Panarin were in that time span. It had a shit ton to do with Copp. Star players can benefit by playing with players that have actual hockey skills. 

 

Copp opened up the ice for Panarin to GET to the high traffic areas, to get better shots off.

 

Neither are comfortable in playing the way they were in March and April. Usually that is due to something physical (they both got injured at seasons end and haven't been the same since). Not just some random decision to play pussy hockey after a month plus of playing differently.

 

If you want to argue that it's something mental and the 2 of them are scared of playing at a high level, I'd like to hear why you think a player would just decide to do so. Especially Copp. Panarin, I could maybe agree he's got some lingering fear from the Tom Wilson incident. 

 

You want to talk about how Panarin was better in year 1 here? Well look who he played with as his RW, the years after. Blackwell  and Hunt. Theres your answer. Plain as day. Insert Copp and he fucking took off. Talk about ignoring the stats 

 

You can't look at Panarin in the vacuum that you are. There ARE variables. There were obvious ups and downs in his performances and to me it's quite obvious it had a lot to do with his linemates.

 

You won't agree on that.

 

I think that's a straight up fact. As good as Panarin can be, he is better when he has support. You see it differently and won't budge on this and feel the need to dismiss the fact and the stats, because... well because you say so. 

 

 

 

 

What you’re saying ONlY makes sense if Panarin wasn’t already perform sing at a ppg pace long before Copp joined the team. I’m not sure why you’re clinging to such a false point. And again, it had little to do with Panarin passing up shots from the slot to pass to guys in no position to shoot. 
 

No one said Panarin does everything by himself. However, to say Copp is responsible for it is silly. He posted 95 points in 69 games his first year with us. Stop it already.

Even this year, was Copp responsible when Panarin posted 13 points in 11 games in November?

how about 15 points in 11 games in December?

13 points in 10 games in January? 
 

panarins best month was March, 24 points in 15 games. 16 of them were before Copp even joined the team. There was a good 4-5 game period of a bump then his April stats are the same as every other month. 
16 points in 12 games in April. 
 

Copp didn’t bump Panarin into anything other than what he already was with x,y, or ,z at right wing. Panarin had a better year one because HE SHOT MORE and directly scored more. He attempted shots more. he attempted to have an impact on the game more himself. 

 

[The Dude]

4 hours ago, Keirik said:

What you’re saying ONlY makes sense if Panarin wasn’t already perform sing at a ppg pace long before Copp joined the team. I’m not sure why you’re clinging to such a false point. And again, it had little to do with Panarin passing up shots from the slot to pass to guys in no position to shoot. 
 

No one said Panarin does everything by himself. However, to say Copp is responsible for it is silly. He posted 95 points in 69 games his first year with us. Stop it already.

Even this year, was Copp responsible when Panarin posted 13 points in 11 games in November?

how about 15 points in 11 games in December?

13 points in 10 games in January? 
 

panarins best month was March, 24 points in 15 games. 16 of them were before Copp even joined the team. There was a good 4-5 game period of a bump then his April stats are the same as every other month. 
16 points in 12 games in April. 
 

Copp didn’t bump Panarin into anything other than what he already was with x,y, or ,z at right wing. Panarin had a better year one because HE SHOT MORE and directly scored more. He attempted shots more. he attempted to have an impact on the game more himself. 

 

Ok, so there was zero uptick in THIS year's production when Copp was put on his line.... Ok, guess everyone here imagined that,  when we all were raving about how much more presence the Panarin line had once that line was constructed. 

 

I'm not sure what Panarin's first year here has anything to do with right now or this season. He played with Fast and I think Buchnevich for most of that year. He's played with Blackwell and Hunt as his other wing in the seasons you're saying he wasn't very good in.

 

I mean, wait.... you're saying he was a ppg player last year and this year... But you think he isn't playing up to par or think something is mentally wrong and he's too stupid to play like he did his first year here. Oh and that his production didn't uptick when paired with Copp, despite the stats and goal production saying otherwise. 

 

Yeah. Yeah... He's fine man. He's just stupid and doesn't know how to play hockey... You do though... 

[Keirik]

6 hours ago, The Dude said:

Ok, so there was zero uptick in THIS year's production when Copp was put on his line.... Ok, guess everyone here imagined that,  when we all were raving about how much more presence the Panarin line had once that line was constructed. 

 

I'm not sure what Panarin's first year here has anything to do with right now or this season. He played with Fast and I think Buchnevich for most of that year. He's played with Blackwell and Hunt as his other wing in the seasons you're saying he wasn't very good in.

 

I mean, wait.... you're saying he was a ppg player last year and this year... But you think he isn't playing up to par or think something is mentally wrong and he's too stupid to play like he did his first year here. Oh and that his production didn't uptick when paired with Copp, despite the stats and goal production saying otherwise. 

 

Yeah. Yeah... He's fine man. He's just stupid and doesn't know how to play hockey... You do though... 

my god. I literally showed you monthly statistics. If you want to ignore them then so be it. And no, last year was not his first year with us. This is Panarins third year here. 
 

this is beyond ridiculous but let’s recap.

1. I start this off saying he’s a shell of what he was his first year here. That’s two years ago. 19/20, not last year. He paced nearly 40 goals. Probably would have had 35-38 or so. 

   You followed it up to say he’s currently injured. 

2. I say I don’t believe that’s the reason because his shot totals and shot attempts are down all year (209 shots and 403 attempts in 69 games vs 177 and 360 in 75 games this year). You bring up Copp being injured. I show you breakdowns of how his stats aren’t incredibly affected by Copps presence.
        

Quote

Panarin posted 13 points in 11 games in November

15 points in 11 games in December

13 points in 10 games in January
 

panarins best month was March, 24 points in 15 games. 16 of them were before Copp even joined the team. There was a good 4-5 game period of a bump then his April stats are the same as every other month. 
16 points in 12 games in April. 

  Hell I’ll thrown in now that 12 out of the 17 games after Copp arrived Bread had 2 or less shots on goal per game also. 
   You start calling me Pete, which at this point I assume is some weird infatuation for you. 
 

3. Now I see you’re asking what does Breads first year have to do with this year when my entire first argument was that we really need the Bread of 19/20 in the playoffs and not the one from 21/22 that has fallen in love with passing only all year. The accusing me of calling him stupid is just odd. This discussion has steeped into elementary school level and I have a lot better things to do. Enjoy the rest of your day, night, or whatever. 

 

[The Dude]

5 hours ago, Keirik said:

my god. I literally showed you monthly statistics. If you want to ignore them then so be it. And no, last year was not his first year with us. This is Panarins third year here. 
 

this is beyond ridiculous but let’s recap.

1. I start this off saying he’s a shell of what he was his first year here. That’s two years ago. 19/20, not last year. He paced nearly 40 goals. Probably would have had 35-38 or so. 

   You followed it up to say he’s currently injured. 

2. I say I don’t believe that’s the reason because his shot totals and shot attempts are down all year (209 shots and 403 attempts in 69 games vs 177 and 360 in 75 games this year). You bring up Copp being injured. I show you breakdowns of how his stats aren’t incredibly affected by Copps presence.
        

  Hell I’ll thrown in now that 12 out of the 17 games after Copp arrived Bread had 2 or less shots on goal per game also. 
   You start calling me Pete, which at this point I assume is some weird infatuation for you. 
 

3. Now I see you’re asking what does Breads first year have to do with this year when my entire first argument was that we really need the Bread of 19/20 in the playoffs and not the one from 21/22 that has fallen in love with passing only all year. The accusing me of calling him stupid is just odd. This discussion has steeped into elementary school level and I have a lot better things to do. Enjoy the rest of your day, night, or whatever. 

 

Who said last year was his first year here? I have repeatedly said he played last year with  Blackwell and this year with Hunt. Then said he played with Fast and possibly Buchnevich in his first year, thinking you'd catch on that he had the better year with the more talented players on his opposite wing.  Guess I gave you too much credit for that as you couldn't even read that I listed who he played with over the 3 years.. 

 

You showed me monthly stats and ignored the pace he was on AFTER the decent pace he was already on. His shot totals leveled out but he fucking scored about 3/8 of his goals for the season in the last 16 games of the season... Again totally dismissing the fact that the line was giving everyone hope that the Rangers were now a complete team as they were dominating and a legit threat instead of the one man army it was perceived to be for the year and the year before. 

 

You stated off saying that you were saying what Dunny was saying, in that he thinks Panarin is a pussy.  To which, I intervene with bringing up a possible injury..  So yeah. No .You did bring up that he was better in his first year and had more shots that year. Somehow you don't deem his linemates as any possible connection to this observation. 

 

You show me stats to prove Copp has no effect on Panarins numbers..... but you're wrong,  as his numbers and goals clicked up and like I said the entire board was electric about the lines play.

 

You talk about his shots going down.  I talk about the puck going in the net more....  which one matters more here? You want him to win the most shots award? Puck goes in the net. That's GOOD. Right? Right. 

 

You were making the rules as the discussion went on. I brought up Copp and the chemistry the line had since his arrival and for some reason you decided Copp couldn't be talked about and had no bearing on the play of Panarins.  Again bringing up his first year as an example of how he doesn't need Copp. 2 years ago is 2 years ago and he has played with dogshit on his RW since..  But to you that means nothing. You dismiss the lines success and ignore the wanted improvement in Panarins game.. Because you said so... Who does that?  Yup.

 

 

You're first argument was in agreement with Dunny, in that he thinks Panarin is a pussy. Your take on his first season was a 2nd thought on the matter and had zero to do with what I brought to the conversation.

 

I was clearly talking about Panarin not necessarily being a pussy, but more likely injured. Which brought his play with Copp to the discussion. 

 

The only reason this is at elementary school level is that you're pretty much stomping your feet in a hissy fit screaming about Panarin needing to shoot more, like he did in his first season here and reflecting on most of this season (without Copp) and last. Not willing to bend on the idea that his RW linemates may have had an impact on this take of yours, which I can agree on.  I'd like to see him shoot more, but you don't like to hear any ideas on why he hasn’t been, or that he was having a bit more success with shooting once Copp got here. 

 

I say he scores more and plays a bit more aggressive when healthy and with a quality RW. You just keep saying he's a PPG player that should score more goals like he did in year one.

 

I'm trying to make the logical connection as to why he scores more goals when he's not playing with AHL lifers as his RW ( I mean does it have to be explained?).

 

What ever. Panarin needs to step up.  Injured or not. Agree?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Keirik]

1 hour ago, The Dude said:

Who said last year was his first year here? I have repeatedly said he played last year with  Blackwell and this year with Hunt. Then said he played with Fast and possibly Buchnevich in his first year, thinking you'd catch on that he had the better year with the more talented players on his opposite wing.  Guess I gave you too much credit for that as you couldn't even read that I listed who he played with over the 3 years.. 

 

You showed me monthly stats and ignored the pace he was on AFTER the decent pace he was already on. His shot totals leveled out but he fucking scored about 3/8 of his goals for the season in the last 16 games of the season... Again totally dismissing the fact that the line was giving everyone hope that the Rangers were now a complete team as they were dominating and a legit threat instead of the one man army it was perceived to be for the year and the year before. 

 

You stated off saying that you were saying what Dunny was saying, in that he thinks Panarin is a pussy.  To which, I intervene with bringing up a possible injury..  So yeah. No .You did bring up that he was better in his first year and had more shots that year. Somehow you don't deem his linemates as any possible connection to this observation. 

 

You show me stats to prove Copp has no effect on Panarins numbers..... but you're wrong,  as his numbers and goals clicked up and like I said the entire board was electric about the lines play.

 

You talk about his shots going down.  I talk about the puck going in the net more....  which one matters more here? You want him to win the most shots award? Puck goes in the net. That's GOOD. Right? Right. 

 

You were making the rules as the discussion went on. I brought up Copp and the chemistry the line had since his arrival and for some reason you decided Copp couldn't be talked about and had no bearing on the play of Panarins.  Again bringing up his first year as an example of how he doesn't need Copp. 2 years ago is 2 years ago and he has played with dogshit on his RW since..  But to you that means nothing. You dismiss the lines success and ignore the wanted improvement in Panarins game.. Because you said so... Who does that?  Yup.

 

 

You're first argument was in agreement with Dunny, in that he thinks Panarin is a pussy. Your take on his first season was a 2nd thought on the matter and had zero to do with what I brought to the conversation.

 

I was clearly talking about Panarin not necessarily being a pussy, but more likely injured. Which brought his play with Copp to the discussion. 

 

The only reason this is at elementary school level is that you're pretty much stomping your feet in a hissy fit screaming about Panarin needing to shoot more, like he did in his first season here and reflecting on most of this season (without Copp) and last. Not willing to bend on the idea that his RW linemates may have had an impact on this take of yours, which I can agree on.  I'd like to see him shoot more, but you don't like to hear any ideas on why he hasn’t been, or that he was having a bit more success with shooting once Copp got here. 

 

I say he scores more and plays a bit more aggressive when healthy and with a quality RW. You just keep saying he's a PPG player that should score more goals like he did in year one.

 

I'm trying to make the logical connection as to why he scores more goals when he's not playing with AHL lifers as his RW ( I mean does it have to be explained?).

 

What ever. Panarin needs to step up.  Injured or not. Agree?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here are Panarins monthly goal totals 

Oct 9 games 1 goal

Nov 11 games 4 goals

Dec 11 games 5 goals

Jan 10 games 2 goals

Feb 7 games 2 goals

Mar 15 games 4 goals

Apr 12 games 4 goals

 

iIf you want to get even more statistical, from the day Copp was traded here,

17 regular season games, 6 goals. There is no huge jump.

   
     It’s not just shots. I just figured anyone could look up goal totals with ease. Didn’t know I even had to point out his goal total being relatively the same as well as shots and shot attempts being down.  Are you really arguing that there is a huge difference because might have scored 1 or 2 more goals or so in a month?  His best month technically was December in a gpg rate. This isn’t about his linemates. This is about Panarin and his decisions. Hell, if his linemates are worse, his shot attempts should go way up. He’s on the puck a lot. He’s one of the guys that rags the puck around, brings the puck in the zone, and dictates a play. 

 

It seems to me the hissy fit is when I actually show statistics that don’t support your idea. But sure, I’ll stomp my feet. 

and nope, I already said in my initial point. We really could use the Panarin of his first year here. I’ve said it elsewhere. I’ve said it here. You reading more into that is on you. If you were confused you could just ask. 

  Regardless, this is enough. The future is more important than going over the past. Dead horse beaten enough. 

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

You guys are crazy lol

[phillyb]

Only opened this thread cause I thought it was today’s GDT haha