What Are We Looking at Here with Lundkvist?

[The Dude]

I gotta say. Rangers prospects that have gotten into the lineup regularly the last 2 seasons have been a disappointment to say the least. 

 

We've gone on and on about Lafreniere. But let's move on to another underwhelming prospect so far. 

I'm not seeing that "it" factor that people were talking up for 2 years now with Lundkvist. 

What I expected was a great skating, solid puck handling, polarizing offensive player that wasn't too shaby defensively. 

He's been so "blah" that I think they really need to sell now on him. Lesser players have done more with the opportunity he's been handed. I wasn't impressed in camp and I'm not impressed now really. 

What am I missing here? Is it Nemeth? Am I exaggerating? 

With such a deep group of defensive prospects,  why is THIS kid here still and not working on his game in the A?

[jsm7302]

5 minutes ago, The Dude said:

I gotta say. Rangers prospects that have gotten into the lineup regularly the last 2 seasons have been a disappointment to say the least. 

 

We've gone on and on about Lafreniere. But let's move on to another underwhelming prospect so far. 

I'm not seeing that "it" factor that people were talking up for 2 years now with Lundkvist. 

What I expected was a great skating, solid puck handling, polarizing offensive player that wasn't too shaby defensively. 

He's been so "blah" that I think they really need to sell now on him. Lesser players have done more with the opportunity he's been handed. I wasn't impressed in camp and I'm not impressed now really. 

What am I missing here? Is it Nemeth? Am I exaggerating? 

With such a deep group of defensive prospects,  why is THIS kid here still and not working on his game in the A?

Nerves, transition to the NHL, etc. I think we will see a Kakko like transition. Id give him another year to make some progress. Too much potential seen prior to give up on this early.

 

The reality is, not a lot of prospects make an impact quickly but we hope to get a 5-10 year return on these kids after a few years of patience. 

[josh]

4 minutes ago, The Dude said:

I gotta say. Rangers prospects that have gotten into the lineup regularly the last 2 seasons have been a disappointment to say the least. 

 

We've gone on and on about Lafreniere. But let's move on to another underwhelming prospect so far. 

I'm not seeing that "it" factor that people were talking up for 2 years now with Lundkvist. 

What I expected was a great skating, solid puck handling, polarizing offensive player that wasn't too shaby defensively. 

He's been so "blah" that I think they really need to sell now on him. Lesser players have done more with the opportunity he's been handed. I wasn't impressed in camp and I'm not impressed now really. 

What am I missing here? Is it Nemeth? Am I exaggerating? 

With such a deep group of defensive prospects,  why is THIS kid here still and not working on his game in the A?

I think it's unrealistic expectations showered on the guys by people that have never seen them play. Then regular fans expect a kid to turn into a dominant all-star his first season in the league.

Lundkvist is a sound, smooth skater. He has good puck handling which benefits him from moving the puck out of pressure and help springing the breakout. He is not Adam Fox or Tony DeAngelo, distributing the puck on the PP. Lundkvist always played the shooter role on the left wall.

Defensively, he has great positioning and uses his stick well. Transitioning to the NHL rink, with bigger players, less time - guys are immediately on top of you, or around you. Stick defending isnt the same in the NHL, and requires more physical play.

He's a quiet, sound player. Not loud or flashy.

With any defenseman, it takes longer to adjust to the pro game.

[Pete]

They've really done him no favors pairing him with Nemeth who's abjectly terrible in every department. 

[Ozzy]

20 minutes ago, Pete said:

They've really done him no favors pairing him with Nemeth who's abjectly terrible in every department. 

...makes you wonder how he'd do with Trouba, right?

I'm not exactly disappointed with Lundqvist.  I've seen him show some good movement in the D zone, and some good vision to make plays to get the puck out.  He's got a pretty good shot, that I would like to see him use more often, but yeah...I'm seeing some good signs in Lundy.

[josh]

makes you wonder if that same logic applies to other players and their linemates/partners/opportunities.

[Drew a Penalty]

I agree with this. Lundkvist has been fine. I don't think he's helped at all by Nemeth, but it's not as though he's carrying that pair either.

I've called him Anton Stralman numerous times and that might just be an unfair Swedish comparison, although I do think it reflects Lundkvist's ceiling pretty well as a smaller less dynamic defenseman. His shot is great when he has a lane, but he's particularly bad at finding shooting lanes or shooting through traffic. It's as though he doesn't know he can shoot for tips. The rest of his offense is unspectacular.  I don't find him to be particularly strong on breakouts because he carries the puck in a very stiff manner, and his first passes seem to handcuff forwards by throwing them into bad spots. He's not the only one to do it, Nemeth does it more, but it's particularly bad that the Rangers have a third pair that can't breakout well.

I'd like to see Jones get more of a look just because he has that dynamic element Lundkvist just doesn't have. Watch how he does everything in motion and there's fluidity to every single movement. I love watching Jones because you can see him putting all of his skills to use. His hands, his hip/body positioning, his edgework, etc. For those that bemoaned DeAngelo's departure, Jones is his left-handed counterpart and honestly might be an even smoother player. Defense is probably a wash between Jones and Lundkvist, though I think Lundkvist is stronger while Jones is much better at reading play.

[Ozzy]

The Official Song of NY Rangers fans:

 

[Pete]

20 minutes ago, josh said:

makes you wonder if that same logic applies to other players and their linemates/partners/opportunities.

Well, no because we've seen he is a sound, smooth skater. He has good puck handling which benefits him from moving the puck out of pressure and help springing the breakout. He is not Adam Fox or Tony DeAngelo, distributing the puck on the PP. Lundkvist always played the shooter role on the left wall.

Defensively, he has great positioning and uses his stick well. Transitioning to the NHL rink, with bigger players, less time - guys are immediately on top of you, or around you. Stick defending isnt the same in the NHL, and requires more physical play.

What we've seen from Loaf is...nothing. 

[leetchy2]

I'm not unhappy with Lundqvist but was surprised that Schneider didn't get the 6th D-spot out of camp. I think Schneider has a more complete game as he can bring the physical play too. That's why I'd be interested in trading Lundy and Chytil for an upgrade at the center position.

[josh]

57 minutes ago, Pete said:

Well, no because we've seen he is a sound, smooth skater. He has good puck handling which benefits him from moving the puck out of pressure and help springing the breakout. He is not Adam Fox or Tony DeAngelo, distributing the puck on the PP. Lundkvist always played the shooter role on the left wall.

Defensively, he has great positioning and uses his stick well. Transitioning to the NHL rink, with bigger players, less time - guys are immediately on top of you, or around you. Stick defending isnt the same in the NHL, and requires more physical play.

What we've seen from Loaf is...nothing. 

I meant Trouba.

[josh]

47 minutes ago, leetchy2 said:

I'm not unhappy with Lundqvist but was surprised that Schneider didn't get the 6th D-spot out of camp. I think Schneider has a more complete game as he can bring the physical play too. That's why I'd be interested in trading Lundy and Chytil for an upgrade at the center position.

 

Look at it as good for Robertson, not as a bad thing for Schneider 

Robertson has been playing on the right side opposite Jones, recently. He’s also older, bigger and more consistent. Don’t sleep on Robertson. 

[The Dude]

2 hours ago, josh said:

I think it's unrealistic expectations showered on the guys by people that have never seen them play. Then regular fans expect a kid to turn into a dominant all-star his first season in the league.

Lundkvist is a sound, smooth skater. He has good puck handling which benefits him from moving the puck out of pressure and help springing the breakout. He is not Adam Fox or Tony DeAngelo, distributing the puck on the PP. Lundkvist always played the shooter role on the left wall.

Defensively, he has great positioning and uses his stick well. Transitioning to the NHL rink, with bigger players, less time - guys are immediately on top of you, or around you. Stick defending isnt the same in the NHL, and requires more physical play.

He's a quiet, sound player. Not loud or flashy.

With any defenseman, it takes longer to adjust to the pro game.

Well, ok, but maybe he can learn these pretty major differences/transitions in the minors.

I feel like they are rushing a bit on him.  He doesn't HAVE  TO be in the NHL at this moment and maybe someone else would be a better fit and contribute more right now.  

I get it's a learning process,  but to me he's looking very overwhelmed and outclassed.  What you describe as his attributes are barely if at all showing in the NHL.

Judging between what I have seen from Lundkvist so far and what we saw from Jones in his short stint with the big club last year, Jones is wayyy ahead of Lundkvist in development and should probably stay with the club after the Covid stuff is done, sending Lundkvist to the A. 

They always say D men take longer to develop.  Well, he's got a lot of developing to do. It doesn't have to happen in the NHL right now. 

Edited December 28, 2021 by The Dude

[josh]

He needs to learn at the NHL level. There's nothing wrong with sitting out games here and there. 50+ games here, practicing, training, learning here is better than anything in the AHL. 

 

[The Dude]

2 hours ago, josh said:

He needs to learn at the NHL level. There's nothing wrong with sitting out games here and there. 50+ games here, practicing, training, learning here is better than anything in the AHL. 

 

Sometimes..  But when you are part of a pairing that isn't exactly doing well, I fail to see how in this case it's true. Especially when other prospects can step in and play better. Gimme Jones, Schneider or Robertson over Lundkvist any day of the week. 

Whats with this take that nothing is good about the AHL? If it's so bad, why keep ANY prospects there? Why sign any vets? 

Every prospects gotta learn at the NHL level now? 

This urge to just push every hyped prospect through has to stop. They DONT all have to learn at the NHL level INSTANTLY.  You can't continually do this. Kakko, Miller, Lafreniere and now Lundkvist.  It's really starting to show that this thinking doesn't work. Every prospect has struggled and taken steps backwards due to doing it this way. 

If Shestyorkin had to prove he was ready in the AHL before being thrown into the fire, these lesser prospect most certainly should too.

Lundkvist needs icetime and confidence.  2 things he doesn't have going for him at the NHL level. Nobody got better by playing less. He should be in the AHL for his own good. 

 

Edited December 29, 2021 by The Dude

[Valriera]

Here let me answer: we’re looking at a  defenseman who is far too young to have any conclusions drawn about his game at the nhl level.

I read these threads on our 19. 20, 21 year old boys, bc that’s what they are, boys, and wonder what the hell anyone expects from them. Mind boggling. Kid’s played 21 games. That’s one quarter of his first nhl season. If you have any judgment on what he’s going to be right now, good or bad, you would only be right by coincidence if it pans out that way. Did you expect him to score 21 points? I mean he’s got four and is +2. What was the expectation?

the only types of young players who light up the league this early in their careers are exceptions, and there are plenty of good players you want on your team who didn’t do that.
 

[Keirik]

2 hours ago, Valriera said:

Here let me answer: we’re looking at a  defenseman who is far too young to have any conclusions drawn about his game at the nhl level.

I read these threads on our 19. 20, 21 year old boys, bc that’s what they are, boys, and wonder what the hell anyone expects from them. Mind boggling. Kid’s played 21 games. That’s one quarter of his first nhl season. If you have any judgment on what he’s going to be right now, good or bad, you would only be right by coincidence if it pans out that way. Did you expect him to score 21 points? I mean he’s got four and is +2. What was the expectation?

the only types of young players who light up the league this early in their careers are exceptions, and there are plenty of good players you want on your team who didn’t do that.
 

While I get what you are saying, there is a big difference in a guy drafted 28th overall I’m round 1 and guys drafted 1st and 2nd. 
 

I don’t think anyone has the same expectations between Nils and Alf/KK

[The Dude]

11 hours ago, Valriera said:

Here let me answer: we’re looking at a  defenseman who is far too young to have any conclusions drawn about his game at the nhl level.

I read these threads on our 19. 20, 21 year old boys, bc that’s what they are, boys, and wonder what the hell anyone expects from them. Mind boggling. Kid’s played 21 games. That’s one quarter of his first nhl season. If you have any judgment on what he’s going to be right now, good or bad, you would only be right by coincidence if it pans out that way. Did you expect him to score 21 points? I mean he’s got four and is +2. What was the expectation?

the only types of young players who light up the league this early in their careers are exceptions, and there are plenty of good players you want on your team who didn’t do that.
 

I expect the hype that came with him. Let's not act like the expectations were low. They were high. Lots of talk over the last 2 years about how special this kid is. 

I don't understand why people get so defensive when anyone questions where a prospect is at, then suggests that they look over matched. Yes he's young. Yes it's early.  But also,  OTHERS IN THE SYSTEM LOOK MORE READY. 

Why does this or other prospects get this opportunity handed to them? With Kakko, Lafreniere and Chytil,  I get it. Draft status should go a long way and they don't have many options anymore  That's not the case on D. 

Gallant is to ice the best team available to him. I think Jones, Schneider or Robertson may bring more to the team at this time. 

What is wrong with that? Why is this some sort of insult to those who seem to want to push these kids, when they don't have to be.  

In actuality,  where I'm going with this is more supportive than your take in a way. I am saying he doesn't look ready and that maybe he should work on his game in the AHL 

You're saying you don't care and to let one of our top prospects play less and stall his development simply because... he's young... admittedly not ready and to expect more is irrational.... 

What does he benefit by playing less than any defensive prospect in the organization in his first season in North America? He should be playing big minutes in every situation, at what ever level allows him to do so. That's not happening in the NHL.

Less doesn't equal more, just because he's in the NHL. He needs work.  Saying any different is being dishonest and short sighted of what they should be trying to accomplish with him and the other prospects.  

[Valriera]

9 hours ago, Keirik said:

While I get what you are saying, there is a big difference in a guy drafted 28th overall I’m round 1 and guys drafted 1st and 2nd. 
 

I don’t think anyone has the same expectations between Nils and Alf/KK

Well, the OP does, hence the thread. I certainly don't. 

 

Quote

You're saying you don't care and to let one of our top prospects play less and stall his development simply because... he's young... admittedly not ready and to expect more is irrational.... 

No, I'm saying 21 games is not long enough to judge the nhl readiness of a young defenseman or any player. 

[The Dude]

37 minutes ago, Valriera said:

Well, the OP does, hence the thread. I certainly don't. 

 

No, I'm saying 21 games is not long enough to judge the nhl readiness of a young defenseman or any player. 

I disagree.  Especially with this prospect. There was much hype behind him. In 21 games, I don't see anything in his game that shows me he has any of the attributes he was lauded as having. 

Someone else can do more with the opportunity. It's not a damning concept.  Not sure why there's always this almost defensive pushback when the subject is brought up about any prospect of the Rangers. 

I'm not saying he will never be ready. I'm saying at this moment,  he isn't making a difference and the team needs that from that spot.

I  am fine with long leashes. I love that. But, I'm not seeing much improvement from a player that was very hyped and mysteriously walked onto the team and warranted signing a vet (to a bad contract) to accompany him on his journey. 

Is he only here because he might pull a Kravtsov if he's not in the NHL? 

[Flynn]

The fact he hasn’t won a Norris yet is inexcusable.  Trade him and a 3rd for Colin Blackwell-fair deal. 

Edited December 29, 2021 by Flynn

[Pete]

We need a difference maker at 3rd pairing D? On the right side no less, playing behind the teams 2 best defenseman?

Nah. 

Also wondering who the regular Hartford watchers in the thread who are so sure that Jones, Schneider, and Robertson can do more with that role. Especially considering Schneider didn't even make this initial call up to the taxi squad.

[Cash or Czech]

I think Nils has definitely been getting better as the season has gone on. He knows he's small, and his body positioning has gotten better. When he goes into the corner with opponents, he's become smarter about where he places himself versus the opponent to have an edge to the puck and move it up. I think he's going to be really solid for us, and once we let PP2 have a little ice time he can show us that shot off the left.

[The Dude]

37 minutes ago, Flynn said:

The fact he hasn’t won a Norris yet is inexcusable.  Trade him and a 3rd for Colin Blackwell-fair deal. 

Right? I mean wtf!

[Sharpshooter]

Short, small stature, blue eyes, blonde hair, most likely human. I'd say that's what we're looking at.

Edited December 29, 2021 by Sharpshooter