Target Colin Blackwell

[Sod16]

UFA is going to be on the block.  Since Laf did not pan out we have had a series of inappropriate players on the first line.  We are not in a position to trade for a long term option there for cap reasons next year.  Moreover, we don't want to permanently freeze LaF out of that position.  Blackwell could slot in there until a longer term option is apparent.  He could then move back to the third line, like last year.  If we want to, we could sign him cheap at the end of the year.  He did pretty well in a top six role when called upon last year.  He hasn't played much in Seattle due to injury and then Covid, but he was coming out of the protocol at the time of the shut down.  When he is traded at the deadline, it will probably be for a 4th rounder, so we wouldn't have to part with much more to get him a little early. 

[josh]

[josh]

I mean, Lafreniere has a better goals/60 this season and last season, and had a better Points per 60 this season. Only difference is Blackwell doubled him in 2ndary assists per 60 last season compared to Lafreniere this season.

The difference in production is inconsequential. Does Blackwell play center, win faceoffs, kill penalties, play physical, act as a leader and have playoff experience?

[jsm7302]

Didn't want him to leave but he is a redundant redundancy at this point. Moving along.

 

I didn't think Rooney would blossom into the ringer of a 4th line center that he has this season. Im loving our bottom 6. Blackwell isn't bringing anything to the top of this lineup that it doesn't already have. Gimme Phil Kessel!

[ThirtyONE]

Why wouldn't we want to trade for actually good players?

[Scott]

1 hour ago, jsm7302 said:

 

I didn't think Rooney would blossom into the ringer of a 4th line center that he has this season. Im loving our bottom 6. Blackwell isn't bringing anything to the top of this lineup that it doesn't already have. Gimme Phil Kessel!

Just say no to the fat bastard, we already have one in training.

 

Edited December 27, 2021 by jsrangers

[Ozzy]

Call me crazy but Tarasenko still looks like a good fit....just wish he could be a rental.

[josh]

2 hours ago, ThirtyONE said:

Why wouldn't we want to trade for actually good players?

Can you clarify tone. I could take this either way. 

[jsm7302]

4 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Call me crazy but Tarasenko still looks like a good fit....just wish he could be a rental.

I like the idea but the cost may be the killer here.

[Ozzy]

1 hour ago, jsm7302 said:

I like the idea but the cost may be the killer here.

That extra year hurts, JSM...otherwise I think he'd be a good fit.

[Jdog99]

Would like to see chytil next to panaran/strome or kreider/zib.

 

If he cant make either of those work than he truly is a dud.

[Sod16]

I made the initial suggestion in this thread because sticking Hunt, Goodrow or (when healthy) Blais with Zib's line just won't work and we need a short term fix.  If you get a Kessel or whatever, it will cost a first rounder and eliminate the possibility of moving LaF or Chytil into that slot for the rest of the year.  Blackwell would be a better option than Hunt/Goodrow, would cost next to nothing, and would maintain the flexibility to try other guys.  

[Jdog99]

Kakko seems like a good fit next to Kreider-Zib...would just give that some more time.

[Ozzy]

I like Blais and thought he was playing some very good hard hockey when he went down.  That guy is gonna be a gamer in my opinion.  I hope we give him another deal and keep him.  I like guys with Stanley Cup rings and experience in that locker room right now!

[The Dude]

Yuck. Next thing you know someone is going to want to bring DiGiuseppe back. 

I want an actual shooter/legit scorer. I know some people want another PK guy who can win faceoffs for some reason. I don't see that as a bigger need than someone to add extra offense.

Right now the Rangers are relying heavily on Kreider keeping this up. That isn't going to happen. They need and are going to need another forward to add offense.

They are getting NOTHING from the RW up and down the lineup.

I like the current set up. I want 3 potential scoring lines, and feel that Lafreniere- Chytil- Gauthier line could gain some confidence if they can break through. They've been split up and put back together a few times, but to me they are their own dynamic that SHOULD be doing better since they should be getting favorable matchups.

That line construction works better than it does with a lesser skilled center or LW like Goodrow.  Bringing in a defensive center to plop on that 3rd line, just doesn't sound appealing,  because that type of player doesn't fit with Chytil, Lafreniere or Gauthier. You'd essentially be putting these youngsters with offensive potential on a 4th line.

I don't want 2- 4th lines. I don't want a traditional 3rd line, simply because the Rangers would be handcuffing and wasting talent by once again doing the square peg in a round hole. Use the players they have. Make it work.  Put them in roles to succeed. Putting any 2 of those forwards with a PK specialist makes this team worse and hinders any development if you ask me. 

 

[Jdog99]

6 hours ago, Ozzy said:

I like Blais and thought he was playing some very good hard hockey when he went down.  That guy is gonna be a gamer in my opinion.  I hope we give him another deal and keep him.  I like guys with Stanley Cup rings and experience in that locker room right now!

Except...have u seen the numbers buch is putting up? Hard to feel good about letting him go and signing goodrow at this point 

[Ozzy]

1 hour ago, Jdog99 said:

Except...have u seen the numbers buch is putting up? Hard to feel good about letting him go and signing goodrow at this point 

I've seen a few Blues games this season, J Dog.  Buch is a really good player for them, but he was simply a cap casualty for us.  I'm really glad to see him playing well, though.  I always liked him, but unfortunately we couldn't keep him. 

I still don't think our record this season would be much better with him on this team though.  We're built differently now, and that's what I wanted to see in the offseason. 

[fletch]

8 hours ago, The Dude said:

Yuck. Next thing you know someone is going to want to bring DiGiuseppe back. 

I want an actual shooter/legit scorer. I know some people want another PK guy who can win faceoffs for some reason. I don't see that as a bigger need than someone to add extra offense.

Right now the Rangers are relying heavily on Kreider keeping this up. That isn't going to happen. They need and are going to need another forward to add offense.

They are getting NOTHING from the RW up and down the lineup.

I like the current set up. I want 3 potential scoring lines, and feel that Lafreniere- Chytil- Gauthier line could gain some confidence if they can break through. They've been split up and put back together a few times, but to me they are their own dynamic that SHOULD be doing better since they should be getting favorable matchups.

That line construction works better than it does with a lesser skilled center or LW like Goodrow.  Bringing in a defensive center to plop on that 3rd line, just doesn't sound appealing,  because that type of player doesn't fit with Chytil, Lafreniere or Gauthier. You'd essentially be putting these youngsters with offensive potential on a 4th line.

I don't want 2- 4th lines. I don't want a traditional 3rd line, simply because the Rangers would be handcuffing and wasting talent by once again doing the square peg in a round hole. Use the players they have. Make it work.  Put them in roles to succeed. Putting any 2 of those forwards with a PK specialist makes this team worse and hinders any development if you ask me. 

 

I appreciate the enthusiasm, but name one NHL team with 3 legit scoring lines.  Roster construction and salary cap makes that a tough ask.

[The Dude]

9 hours ago, fletch said:

I appreciate the enthusiasm, but name one NHL team with 3 legit scoring lines.  Roster construction and salary cap makes that a tough ask.

Well that's why I said potential scoring lines. The kid line is so up and down with its consistency that I don't consider it a legit scoring line just yet.

The fact that they are all young and still relatively cheap gives the Rangers an advantage in trying to build their confidence and using them in roles they should accel in, rather than stuffing them onto a checking line, which none of them have any business being on. 

What is Lafreniere going to get out of being forced into adapting his "game" to play with a lesser talented, defensive minded center? Chytil? Whats he get out of it? Unless the player is more a 2b center, I don't see the fit or the need.

Yes. The Rangers need to be better on faceoffs. But having your better faceoff men being on you're 3rd and 4th line accomplishes what exactly? Their best guys on the draw are already on the 4th line. 

Want a difference maker at the dot? It's going to have to be in place of Zibanejad or Strome. Not happening. Can't afford to do any other way. 

As for your question about how many teams have 3 legit scoring lines.. I dunno. Tampa, Florida,  Toronto, Carolina, St Louis, Colorado off the top of my head.

Name me teams that have 2 defensive/checking lines that use offensive minded prospects on them and are successful.. 

Use what you have in ways that benefit your players. Handcuffing our only young forward prospects isn't a good decision IMO. See Kakko for more details. 

[fletch]

13 hours ago, The Dude said:

Well that's why I said potential scoring lines. The kid line is so up and down with its consistency that I don't consider it a legit scoring line just yet.

The fact that they are all young and still relatively cheap gives the Rangers an advantage in trying to build their confidence and using them in roles they should accel in, rather than stuffing them onto a checking line, which none of them have any business being on. 

What is Lafreniere going to get out of being forced into adapting his "game" to play with a lesser talented, defensive minded center? Chytil? Whats he get out of it? Unless the player is more a 2b center, I don't see the fit or the need.

Yes. The Rangers need to be better on faceoffs. But having your better faceoff men being on you're 3rd and 4th line accomplishes what exactly? Their best guys on the draw are already on the 4th line. 

Want a difference maker at the dot? It's going to have to be in place of Zibanejad or Strome. Not happening. Can't afford to do any other way. 

As for your question about how many teams have 3 legit scoring lines.. I dunno. Tampa, Florida,  Toronto, Carolina, St Louis, Colorado off the top of my head.

Name me teams that have 2 defensive/checking lines that use offensive minded prospects on them and are successful.. 

Use what you have in ways that benefit your players. Handcuffing our only young forward prospects isn't a good decision IMO. See Kakko for more details. 

I think we probably have different definitions of scoring lines.  Generally I see the top two lines expected to contribute the bulk of scoring defined as the scoring lines, with a significant drop off in production to the third line.

Tampa's third is Maroon-Colton-Perry

https://www.dailyfaceoff.com/teams/tampa-bay-lightning/line-combinations/

Florida's third is Marchment-Lundell-Mamin

Carolina's third is Kotkaniemi-Staal-Jarvis

Toronto is Ritchie-Spezza-Simmonds

St Louis is Brown-Bozak-Kostin

Colorado is Maltsev-Jost-Aube-Kubel.

If you compare those third lines to the top two lines, I think we can agree production drops off.  If you mean scoring to mean that the third line should be expected to chip in more often with goals/assists/offensive zone pressure, and that we should upgrade our third line, then I think that is a good point for you to make.

 

 

[Bugg]

9 hours ago, fletch said:

I think we probably have different definitions of scoring lines.  Generally I see the top two lines expected to contribute the bulk of scoring defined as the scoring lines, with a significant drop off in production to the third line.

Tampa's third is Maroon-Colton-Perry

https://www.dailyfaceoff.com/teams/tampa-bay-lightning/line-combinations/

Florida's third is Marchment-Lundell-Mamin

Carolina's third is Kotkaniemi-Staal-Jarvis

Toronto is Ritchie-Spezza-Simmonds

St Louis is Brown-Bozak-Kostin

Colorado is Maltsev-Jost-Aube-Kubel.

If you compare those third lines to the top two lines, I think we can agree production drops off.  If you mean scoring to mean that the third line should be expected to chip in more often with goals/assists/offensive zone pressure, and that we should upgrade our third line, then I think that is a good point for you to make.

 

 

I understand you aren't getting a top center to be your 3rd line center, between minutes and cap number. But Chytil is terrible. Often gains the zone, gets bodied, dissappears. Looks as if he's looking to change lines as soon as he gains the zone. Never wins any puck battles in the zone. Does not go to the net, doesn't get pucks to his linemates near the net. And really that's a center's job; set up your wings. At this point he's so deficient and noncompetitive, it's almost unfair to judge Yukon and Goat.

This is a problem that has to be addressed. No great secret that in the playoffs with tighter defenses and less penalties, opposing teams will gear things to stopping or limiting #10 and #93. If the lesser guys on the 3rd line don't produce gonna be a very short stay in the playoffs. Don't pretend to have an answer, be it internal or a trade. But something has to be done ASAP. Based on his recent benching, management knows this only too well. 

[Ozzy]

22 minutes ago, Bugg said:

I understand you aren't getting a top center to be your 3rd line center, between minutes and cap number. But Chytil is terrible. Often gains the zone, gets bodied, dissappears. Looks as if he's looking to change lines as soon as he gains the zone. Never wins any puck battles in the zone. Does not go to the net, doesn't get pucks to his linemates near the net. And really that's a center's job; set up your wings. At this point he's so deficient and noncompetitive, it's almost unfair to judge Yukon and Goat.

This is a problem that has to be addressed. No great secret that in the playoffs with tighter defenses and less penalties, opposing teams will gear things to stopping or limiting #10 and #93. If the lesser guys on the 3rd line don't produce gonna be a very short stay in the playoffs. Don't pretend to have an answer, be it internal or a trade. But something has to be done ASAP. Based on his recent benching, management knows this only too well. 

This is what I'm seeing too, Bugg.

I think they know it too.  It seems pretty apparent that they're going to have to make a decision on Chytil soon, so we'll see what goes down. 

[The Dude]

11 hours ago, fletch said:

I think we probably have different definitions of scoring lines.  Generally I see the top two lines expected to contribute the bulk of scoring defined as the scoring lines, with a significant drop off in production to the third line.

Tampa's third is Maroon-Colton-Perry

https://www.dailyfaceoff.com/teams/tampa-bay-lightning/line-combinations/

Florida's third is Marchment-Lundell-Mamin

Carolina's third is Kotkaniemi-Staal-Jarvis

Toronto is Ritchie-Spezza-Simmonds

St Louis is Brown-Bozak-Kostin

Colorado is Maltsev-Jost-Aube-Kubel.

If you compare those third lines to the top two lines, I think we can agree production drops off.  If you mean scoring to mean that the third line should be expected to chip in more often with goals/assists/offensive zone pressure, and that we should upgrade our third line, then I think that is a good point for you to make.

 

 

Well that's exactly what I mean,  except I feel the Rangers 3rd line ALREADY does this and has potential to add more offense than they currently are.  No upgrade needed. They have the pieces. They just need to get them going to get the extra production out of them. 

If I was making it sound like they should have or HAVE 3- 1st lines, or other teams have 3 1st lines, I apologize.  Not at all.  But a third line that has enough talent to sustain any offensive pressure every few shifts and should be able to take advantage of defensive match ups, (to me) is more of an advantage than throwing out a defensive minded bottom 6 center with offensive minded prospects or grinders as your 3rd line.  Especially when you have the option of using the talented young players like the Rangers have.  

 

Also, a few of those line combo's are a little off due to injuries and covid. That's definitely not the normal 3rd lines of most of those teams. Tampa and Toronto especially... No biggie though. 

Edited December 30, 2021 by The Dude

[The Dude]

1 hour ago, Bugg said:

I understand you aren't getting a top center to be your 3rd line center, between minutes and cap number. But Chytil is terrible. Often gains the zone, gets bodied, dissappears. Looks as if he's looking to change lines as soon as he gains the zone. Never wins any puck battles in the zone. Does not go to the net, doesn't get pucks to his linemates near the net. And really that's a center's job; set up your wings. At this point he's so deficient and noncompetitive, it's almost unfair to judge Yukon and Goat.

This is a problem that has to be addressed. No great secret that in the playoffs with tighter defenses and less penalties, opposing teams will gear things to stopping or limiting #10 and #93. If the lesser guys on the 3rd line don't produce gonna be a very short stay in the playoffs. Don't pretend to have an answer, be it internal or a trade. But something has to be done ASAP. Based on his recent benching, management knows this only too well. 

Sadly I agree with Chytil.  I don't know if it's the pressure of being "the guy" on the current line,  or if he's just not good. I have really been holding judgment on him and hoped to see some glimpse of the talent he has shown in short spurts over the last few years.  But man. He's lost out there. A move to the wing may help and I'm all for going in that direction. But who/what takes his position as the 3rd line center is the dilemma.  As I pointed out, the players the Rangers have AS  3rd liners, NEED  an offensive minded center.  NOT a checking center. 

What realistic options are there?