Time for a Lafreniere Reset

[The Dude]

6 minutes ago, Capt said:

Doesn't Laf have reasonably good numbers at even strength?  When a player gets next to zero power play ice time they are not going to put up the numbers you associate with top draft picks.  They are also going to have a hard time finding confidence in their offensive game.  You cannot just make that a side point.  The Rangers are thriving on the power play so it justifies them not playing their top picks there.  Patience.  Give either Kakko or Laf a regular spot on the power play and you increase their point production 20 points easy

What does either of them do to bump anyone off the top PP unit though? 

 

I'd agree that the 2nd PP unit should get more looks, but the teams success has been through its near dominant PP and their goalie. Could they shoehorn Lafreniere in there? Sure. Do they need to? No. 

 

If his level of play was high enough, he'd force Gallant to use him there. He hasn't shown that elite level to bump anyone off that unit. Be a game breaker with your sheltered minutes, then you'll get the right to bump  Strome or Copp. Until then....

 

 

[Capt]

9 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Splain how Lindgren, Miller, and Schneider are deemed must keeps by Ranger fans then? 

 

It's not a matter of lack of patience. We all just sat through an abnormal rebuild in which the team added top tier free agents to advance the core. Nobody was itching to deal prospects.  Hell, there was a time when a bunch of people wanted to do nothing but stockpile prospects and such. Continually stuck on getting younger, no matter who was advancing as players. 

 

We want top draft choices to produce like top draft choices.  That's normal.  That's not being impatient. 

You're kidding right?  Miller was being destroyed on this board only months ago.  In fact some were trading him for Claude Giroux.  Lindgren came with no fanfare or expectation so he's not comparable.  Schneider is the new thing and has played well but he doesn't have to put up points to be considered a success.  

 

How about Lundqvist?  Went from can't miss roster lock to all but forgotten and yes included in all kinds of trades on here.  Stop it.  

 

Buch went from infuriating to somebody we can't live with out.  It only took him 5-6 years to become that player.    

[The Dude]

2 minutes ago, Capt said:

Laf has more even strength goals than Buch, Patrick Kane, Svechnikov, Crosby, Tavares, Nylander, Hertl, Point, Hughes, Aho, Landeskog, Kadri, Raymond, Barkov, Pettersson, Laine, Giroux, Panarin, and Zegras.  

 

Not comparing him to any of them but at 20 years old he has more ES goals.  If he was ever given 1st pp unit for the entire season how many goals would he have?  I would think he'd be pushing 25 at least.  

But you use those names to prop up a player that is not on their level. Like at all.

 

Most of those names would contribute big numbers as players who got favorable match ups. Lafreniere hasn't.  

 

I'm just underwhelmed with the kid so far. He has shown glimpses. But few and far between.  I want more from the 1 OA.  Like more than 1 or 2 dominant shifts over 2 seasons. The ability to take over a game. That kind of stuff. He doesn't need the PP to do that. 

[Capt]

4 minutes ago, The Dude said:

What does either of them do to bump anyone off the top PP unit though? 

 

I'd agree that the 2nd PP unit should get more looks, but the teams success has been through its near dominant PP and their goalie. Could they shoehorn Lafreniere in there? Sure. Do they need to? No. 

 

If his level of play was high enough, he'd force Gallant to use him there. He hasn't shown that elite level to bump anyone off that unit. Be a game breaker with your sheltered minutes, then you'll get the right to bump  Strome or Copp. Until then....

 

 

I'm not calling for them to be on the top unit.  I'm merely explaining that their numbers would look more like the numbers you expect if they had those minutes.  Laf is putting up decent 5on5 numbers.  You can't just ignore them because they are inconvenient to you.  If he was given top pp time he may just well be pushing 25-30 goals right now.  

 

You are comparing them to other top picks on other teams.  They get/got that ice time  for a whole host of different reasons.  Lack of other talent, bad teams, management decisions, whatever.  They got the time though.  

 

Until Laf gets number 1 pp time he will never produce the numbers associated with his draft status so until then.....

 

Powerplay is where the scorers in the league get their numbers.  There probably isn't a player in the top 25 of scoring who isn't productive on the power play.

 

If you have other issues with Laf have at it.  Carrying a line at 19-20 years old on the wing is a ridiculous expectation.  

 

If you continue to talk numbers your argument to me anyway is missing a massive side note.

[The Dude]

3 minutes ago, Capt said:

You're kidding right?  Miller was being destroyed on this board only months ago.  In fact some were trading him for Claude Giroux.  Lindgren came with no fanfare or expectation so he's not comparable.  Schneider is the new thing and has played well but he doesn't have to put up points to be considered a success.  

 

How about Lundqvist?  Went from can't miss roster lock to all but forgotten and yes included in all kinds of trades on here.  Stop it.  

 

Buch went from infuriating to somebody we can't live with out.  It only took him 5-6 years to become that player.    

Miller was always seen as a raw talent that needed to be reigned in. The trade proposals for the big names were always over doing it. 

 

Lindgren took a spot and ran with it. People weren't very high on him before he got his chance.  Not many complained about playing him. Not much to complain about.  That's the point..

 

Lundkvist simply hasn't been very good in NY, and it's not looking like he's tearing up the A. He doesn't have a future here with Fox and Trouba here for years to come. Schneider is solid all around. He has room to grow and fits in a 3rd pairing role for now. He fits. He's good. 

 

That's the point.  Play to your potential, no matter where you are slotted in. Schneider is forcing a future with this club. 

[Capt]

5 minutes ago, The Dude said:

But you use those names to prop up a player that is not on their level. Like at all.

 

Most of those names would contribute big numbers as players who got favorable match ups. Lafreniere hasn't.  

 

I'm just underwhelmed with the kid so far. He has shown glimpses. But few and far between.  I want more from the 1 OA.  Like more than 1 or 2 dominant shifts over 2 seasons. The ability to take over a game. That kind of stuff. He doesn't need the PP to do that. 

No I'm not at all.  You use numbers to shit on him.  I'm using numbers to show you that he isn't some bust that people try to make a narrative about his career already.  

 

In the past bunch of years the top 2 picks have been

Matthews/Laine

Hischier/Patrick

Dahlin/Svechnikov

Hughes/Kaapo

Laf/Byfield

 

He's obviously not Matthews but who is?  Laine is a one trick pony who he already out scores 5 on 5.  Laine is a power play specialist almost.

 

Hischier took years to become a good player but nothing special.  Patrick isn't worth discussing.

 

Dahlin is still struggling and gets all the minutes he wants.  Svechnikov actually puts similar numbers only difference is Svech's poerplay numbers.

 

Hughes can't stay healthy and is far from a lock to be a star because of it.  Kaapo we know all about

 

Byfield can't even stay in the league.

 

So who are you comparing him to?  McDavid and Matthews?  Ok you win he stinks compared to them

[Capt]

4 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Miller was always seen as a raw talent that needed to be reigned in. The trade proposals for the big names were always over doing it. 

 

Lindgren took a spot and ran with it. People weren't very high on him before he got his chance.  Not many complained about playing him. Not much to complain about.  That's the point..

 

Lundkvist simply hasn't been very good in NY, and it's not looking like he's tearing up the A. He doesn't have a future here with Fox and Trouba here for years to come. Schneider is solid all around. He has room to grow and fits in a 3rd pairing role for now. He fits. He's good. 

 

That's the point.  Play to your potential, no matter where you are slotted in. Schneider is forcing a future with this club. 

Miller was a fan darling as a rookie and people shit on him based on last year and the beginning of this year.  Now people love him again.  The point is he's young and he has ups and downs and the fans love/trade him depending if he's up or down.  THAT IS THE POINT

 

Lindgren has zero expectations to his play and most casual fans would have zero clue how to judge him because you can't do it bu looking at the score sheet.  Fact is his play has dropped considerably.  Fact is he's probably the odd man out if things don't change.

 

You are calling quits on Lundqvist after 20 games as a Ranger?  Ok that doesn't prove the point at all.  Seems very patient to me.  The guy was a top 10 prospect in NHL circles just last year and fans were creaming themselves over him coming here.  He struggled for 20 games and was passed by Schneider.  Now Schneider is untouchable and Nils can be moved for 40 year old rentals.  Got ya. Patience in spades.

[The Dude]

1 hour ago, Capt said:

No I'm not at all.  You use numbers to shit on him.  I'm using numbers to show you that he isn't some bust that people try to make a narrative about his career already.  

 

In the past bunch of years the top 2 picks have been

Matthews/Laine

Hischier/Patrick

Dahlin/Svechnikov

Hughes/Kaapo

Laf/Byfield

 

He's obviously not Matthews but who is?  Laine is a one trick pony who he already out scores 5 on 5.  Laine is a power play specialist almost.

 

Hischier took years to become a good player but nothing special.  Patrick isn't worth discussing.

 

Dahlin is still struggling and gets all the minutes he wants.  Svechnikov actually puts similar numbers only difference is Svech's poerplay numbers.

 

Hughes can't stay healthy and is far from a lock to be a star because of it.  Kaapo we know all about

 

Byfield can't even stay in the league.

 

So who are you comparing him to?  McDavid and Matthews?  Ok you win he stinks compared to them

So you get to pick and choose which #1s & 2s to compare him to. Just as long as they aren't REALLY REALLY good?  Ok. 

 

So, you're seriously going to say that all the top players in the game are only good because of their PP scoring? Lafreniere is better than all of them because of his ES goals? Better than Laine? Better than Svechnikov? Hughes? 

 

Every hockey writer who is scratching their head and miffed by the eye test and lack of "it" factor that Lafreniere brings are all wrong? Gallant had him as a healthy scratch and now has him on the 4th line, but Lafreniere is better than these other guys? 

 

You seriously believe this? 

[The Dude]

1 hour ago, Capt said:

I'm not calling for them to be on the top unit.  I'm merely explaining that their numbers would look more like the numbers you expect if they had those minutes.  Laf is putting up decent 5on5 numbers.  You can't just ignore them because they are inconvenient to you.  If he was given top pp time he may just well be pushing 25-30 goals right now.  

 

You are comparing them to other top picks on other teams.  They get/got that ice time  for a whole host of different reasons.  Lack of other talent, bad teams, management decisions, whatever.  They got the time though.  

 

Until Laf gets number 1 pp time he will never produce the numbers associated with his draft status so until then.....

 

Powerplay is where the scorers in the league get their numbers.  There probably isn't a player in the top 25 of scoring who isn't productive on the power play.

 

If you have other issues with Laf have at it.  Carrying a line at 19-20 years old on the wing is a ridiculous expectation.  

 

If you continue to talk numbers your argument to me anyway is missing a massive side note.

His numbers would look like I expect if he did anything at an elite level. Talent shines through. 

 

His favorable match ups may as well be PP minutes, IF he was as good as advertised. 

 

Carrying a 3rd line playing against 3rd D pairings and 3rd and 4th liners should be do-able for a 1 OA. This isn't some impossible feat. We aren't talking about a 3rd round pick or an undrafted FA. The first overall pick in the draft should be the best player on his line and should carry said line. If he can't carry Chytil and Gauthier, then there's an issue there. If you don't see the issue, that's on you. 

 

You can talk up his ES goals all you want. It doesn't change the fact that his game has been pretty unimpressive for a  1 OA. Which is the point most of us are making. 

 

 

 

 

[siddious]

We’re just beating a dead horse here at this point. He’s been underwhelming for a 1OA but not every 1OA is an elite generational talent. With that said he is also having a pretty decent season. Only time will tell what he really is.

 

This season has been encouraging. He’s certainly gotten better. I still think there’s a way to go. The good news is he’s still young as fuck. 
 

 

[The Dude]

1 hour ago, Capt said:

Miller was a fan darling as a rookie and people shit on him based on last year and the beginning of this year.  Now people love him again.  The point is he's young and he has ups and downs and the fans love/trade him depending if he's up or down.  THAT IS THE POINT

 

Lindgren has zero expectations to his play and most casual fans would have zero clue how to judge him because you can't do it bu looking at the score sheet.  Fact is his play has dropped considerably.  Fact is he's probably the odd man out if things don't change.

 

You are calling quits on Lundqvist after 20 games as a Ranger?  Ok that doesn't prove the point at all.  Seems very patient to me.  The guy was a top 10 prospect in NHL circles just last year and fans were creaming themselves over him coming here.  He struggled for 20 games and was passed by Schneider.  Now Schneider is untouchable and Nils can be moved for 40 year old rentals.  Got ya. Patience in spades.

I was not impressed with the little I saw from Lundkvist before the season. I thought both Schneider and Jones outplayed him by a lot in pre season.  Both having that "it" factor. Both bringing something the team could use from their respective positions. 

 

Again.  Lundkvist has ZERO chance of cracking the Rangers roster with his style of play. There is no future for him in this organization, unless Fix wants to leave. THAT is why I'm calling it quits on the undersized under performing Lundkvist. After all that hype and talk about alllll of his supposed attributes, you'd expect to see a confident skilled puck mover/shooter. He looked weak, over matched, not very quick and not close to being offensively gifted enough to overcome those short comings, to consider putting time into developing him at the NHL level. Again. He didn't do much in the A from looking at the stats. 

 

It's OK to miss on a late 1st rounder. It's OK to quit believing when you see that the kid can't overcome what's already ahead of him on the depth chart. 

 

As for Lindgren,  I'd agree he has fallen off a bit this season. Possibly overworked. Injured maybe... I think the game he has played as a Ranger leads me to believe that he will shine in the playoffs.

 

My expectations are that he will block an assload of shots, stand up some forwards upon entry with some hard hits and even contribute offensively.  Most of that should be everyone's expectations. Not sure why or how you can say there's zero expectations to his game. There's a lot riding on that guy. 

 

Facts are, gritty hard nosed D men show their worth in the playoffs. This will solidify his spot as a leader and a keeper moving forward. 

 

 

[Capt]

It's not beating a dead horse to say his career is far from defined.  He can't even buy a beer yet people want to compare him to anyone.  The only two I don't  compare him too is McDavid and Matthews.  Yet the dude wants to take that and run with it.  good for him.  He's never going to be those two and nobody ever thought he was, ever.  

Svechnikov wasn't and still isn't a superstar right off the bat.  My point is his numbers are close to Lafs.  That's all.  Svechnikov is the better player today.  He's also had more time 

[Capt]

4 minutes ago, The Dude said:

I was not impressed with the little I saw from Lundkvist before the season. I thought both Schneider and Jones outplayed him by a lot in pre season.  Both having that "it" factor. Both bringing something the team could use from their respective positions. 

 

Again.  Lundkvist has ZERO chance of cracking the Rangers roster with his style of play. There is no future for him in this organization, unless Fix wants to leave. THAT is why I'm calling it quits on the undersized under performing Lundkvist. After all that hype and talk about alllll of his supposed attributes, you'd expect to see a confident skilled puck mover/shooter. He looked weak, over matched, not very quick and not close to being offensively gifted enough to overcome those short comings, to consider putting time into developing him at the NHL level. Again. He didn't do much in the A from looking at the stats. 

 

It's OK to miss on a late 1st rounder. It's OK to quit believing when you see that the kid can't overcome what's already ahead of him on the depth chart. 

 

As for Lindgren,  I'd agree he has fallen off a bit this season. Possibly overworked. Injured maybe... I think the game he has played as a Ranger leads me to believe that he will shine in the playoffs.

 

My expectations are that he will block an assload of shots, stand up some forwards upon entry with some hard hits and even contribute offensively.  Most of that should be everyone's expectations. Not sure why or how you can say there's zero expectations to his game. There's a lot riding on that guy. 

 

Facts are, gritty hard nosed D men show their worth in the playoffs. This will solidify his spot as a leader and a keeper moving forward. 

 

 

Another 21 year old kid jumping the ocean to NYC to start his career.  To think there can be no growing pains in that process is beyond stupid.  These guys are not robots and they are not all the same.  Only a fool can come to the conclusion that Lundkvist's career here is over because of any reason.  You have no idea who the organization likes and how much.  I think Jones showed better than all of them but my opinion means nothing.  

 

You're comments on Lundqvist is the shinning example of "no patience" the fact that you can't see that makes this conversation pointless 

[siddious]

12 minutes ago, Capt said:

It's not beating a dead horse to say his career is far from defined.  He can't even buy a beer yet people want to compare him to anyone.  The only two I don't  compare him too is McDavid and Matthews.  Yet the dude wants to take that and run with it.  good for him.  He's never going to be those two and nobody ever thought he was, ever.  

Svechnikov wasn't and still isn't a superstar right off the bat.  My point is his numbers are close to Lafs.  That's all.  Svechnikov is the better player today.  He's also had more time 

I mean that’s pretty much what I said lol. I just meant everything that’s being said has already been said countless times. He’s looking better and time will tell. 
 

I have more faith in him living up to his potential than kakko tbh but that’s a separate discussion. 

[The Dude]

2 minutes ago, Capt said:

Another 21 year old kid jumping the ocean to NYC to start his career.  To think there can be no growing pains in that process is beyond stupid.  These guys are not robots and they are not all the same.  Only a fool can come to the conclusion that Lundkvist's career here is over because of any reason.  You have no idea who the organization likes and how much.  I think Jones showed better than all of them but my opinion means nothing.  

 

You're comments on Lundqvist is the shinning example of "no patience" the fact that you can't see that makes this conversation pointless 

Lmao.  Ok guy. I bet the organization thinks as highly of him as Fox and Trouba, whom are the players he needs to leapfrog. 

 

Good luck with that. Ride that train. 

[Capt]

Who is comparing him to two guys with 8 year contracts for $8m a year?  Nice leap though.  

[Capt]

and to speak how things change.  Trouba was going on Mt. Flushmore last year, this year everyone loves him.  Love how he has to jump those two but not the rookie Schneider or that it would be totally incomprehensible for him to play the left side either.  Of course his career has been defined by you as well so obviously that cannot happen.  LMFAOUGFRYBKL

[VegasRanger]

8 hours ago, RJWantsTheCup said:

Lifetime free donuts for all Rangers fans at Dunkin.

Only problem with that is it would only be in the NY area.  Guess I'm outta luck.

[The Dude]

7 hours ago, Capt said:

and to speak how things change.  Trouba was going on Mt. Flushmore last year, this year everyone loves him.  Love how he has to jump those two but not the rookie Schneider or that it would be totally incomprehensible for him to play the left side either.  Of course his career has been defined by you as well so obviously that cannot happen.  LMFAOUGFRYBKL

Switch to the left side.... Yeah and leapfrog Lindgren and Miller. Keep going though.

 

If the kid pans out, gets his shit together,  plays to the hype weve heard about for a couple years,  he still has no place on the Rangers. How are you fitting him under the cap. It's not going to work for him, unless he is able to make Fox redundant by outplayed him. There's so many variables to this that I didn't think I had to explain beyond what I already did. 

 

You can't keep all the prospects.  Sometimes you just need to trade them for the better of the player and to be smart with assets. His value decreases daily as he stinks up the AHL and clearly has no spot on this roster that makes sense for the type of player he is supposed to be. 

 

As for Trouba. Meh. Some of us were waiting for a coaching change to see if he could play back to his former self. Some of that patience you say Ranger fans don't have. Crap, some of us were thinking Trouba for captain last season. So, yeah.  

[Pete]

9 hours ago, Capt said:

Trouba was going on Mt. Flushmore last year, this year everyone loves him.

I don't understand why this is a problem, though. People's opinions can change when the data changes.

 

We're all obsessed with receipts here, and opportunistically ramming it down people's throats when we're "right". Every. Single. One. Of. Us.

 

What's wrong with me saying Kakko stinks today? He does. If he doesn't stink next year then I'll adjust. That's my right. If anyone wants to sit here for 3 years and say they see something in Kakko today that makes them think he'll be good in year 4, then they are supremely optimistic but that optimism isn't based on anything real. Not the eye test or the numbers (this year, his metrics were actually good last year). 

 

Similarly with Lafreniere, this kid showed absolutely nothing on the ice that would make anyone think he even belonged in the NHL until about halfway through this season. It was really more supreme optimism based on wishful thinking more than anything he did on the ice. We can talk about his ES goal totals and we all also know alot of them were shot into nets with no goalie. Good on him, Strome would have missed those. 

 

Regarding trading guys...it's a capped league and the Rangers are up against it. No one wants to trade Kakko, but the cap might demand a move. With Miller, you have to give to get. Was Philly gonna trade us Giroux for Dryden Hunt and Tarmo Reuannen?

 

Lundkvist stinks today. He may not tomorrow. I'm not allowed to say he stinks today?

 

Also, in case more clarification is needed, same players should go to the AHL is not enough on them, it's where players go to develop. So I'm not sure if part of your beef is with people saying that certain players don't belong in the nhl, it's because right now they don't and to your point when they are 19, 20, 21, there's absolutely nothing wrong with sending them to the AHL... And then players like Schneider step right in and look like they belong instead of looking like they're completely overwhelmed like our first and second overalls.

 

End of day, coming in here hot like you have been I just trashing people because they've said certain players stink, don't forget that the people saying these players stink also aren't wrong. Will they stink tomorrow is anybody's guess, but some players are starting to look better than others and you are starting to see glimpses of what's possible. It should be an exciting time for everybody, not a time to come in here and say "see I told you so" because of one highlight real goal against a terrible team and goalie.

 

You know it would have been great, if he followed up his four shots in 13 minutes with two goals performance against Detroit with something better than a two-shot performance in 15 minutes against Winnipeg.

 

Edited April 20, 2022 by Pete

[Capt]

1 hour ago, The Dude said:

Switch to the left side.... Yeah and leapfrog Lindgren and Miller. Keep going though.

 

If the kid pans out, gets his shit together,  plays to the hype weve heard about for a couple years,  he still has no place on the Rangers. How are you fitting him under the cap. It's not going to work for him, unless he is able to make Fox redundant by outplayed him. There's so many variables to this that I didn't think I had to explain beyond what I already did. 

 

You can't keep all the prospects.  Sometimes you just need to trade them for the better of the player and to be smart with assets. His value decreases daily as he stinks up the AHL and clearly has no spot on this roster that makes sense for the type of player he is supposed to be. 

 

As for Trouba. Meh. Some of us were waiting for a coaching change to see if he could play back to his former self. Some of that patience you say Ranger fans don't have. Crap, some of us were thinking Trouba for captain last season. So, yeah.  

Seriously WTF are you talking about?  Not needing to explain?  Ok how about not needing to explain Patrick Nemeth?  Is it possible that Nemeth isn't in the Rangers long term plans?  How do you fit his contract under the cap?  He's on a fucking etc right now.  So yeah no need to explain with your logic.  I have no idea what Lundqvist turns into.  Miller and Trouba are just two examples of players whose value in the fans eyes have drastically changed over the past year.  

 

How much do watch Hartford.  Admittedly I don't watch at all.  I took your narrative that he "stinks up the AHL daily" as true.  Yet a quick search and I find this

https://www.blueshirtbanter.com/2022/3/8/22965921/rangers-nils-lundkvist-checking-in

 

So obviously it's just diarrhea of the keyboard which is what has become expected of you.  So again it seems like his status as future NHL defenseman has not changed at all.  His future here is unknown and the variables for him staying are endless.  You talk about cap yet can't fathom how a young player on an elc finds a way onto the Rangers roster?  Your argument is all over the place and is based on made up assumptions.

 

[Capt]

37 minutes ago, Pete said:

I don't understand why this is a problem, though. People's opinions can change when the data changes.

 

We're all obsessed with receipts here, and opportunistically ramming it down people's throats when we're "right". Every. Single. One. Of. Us.

 

What's wrong with me saying Kakko stinks today? He does. If he doesn't stink next year then I'll adjust. That's my right. If anyone wants to sit here for 3 years and say they see something in Kakko today that makes them think he'll be good in year 4, then they are supremely optimistic but that optimism isn't based on anything real. Not the eye test or the numbers (this year, his metrics were actually good last year). 

 

Similarly with Lafreniere, this kid showed absolutely nothing on the ice that would make anyone think he even belonged in the NHL until about halfway through this season. It was really more supreme optimism based on wishful thinking more than anything he did on the ice. We can talk about his ES goal totals and we all also know alot of them were shot into nets with no goalie. Good on him, Strome would have missed those. 

 

Regarding trading guys...it's a capped league and the Rangers are up against it. No one wants to trade Kakko, but the cap might demand a move. With Miller, you have to give to get. Was Philly gonna trade us Giroux for Dryden Hunt and Tarmo Reuannen?

 

Lundkvist stinks today. He may not tomorrow. I'm not allowed to say he stinks today?

 

Also, in case more clarification is needed, same players should go to the AHL is not enough on them, it's where players go to develop. So I'm not sure if part of your beef is with people saying that certain players don't belong in the nhl, it's because right now they don't and to your point when they are 19, 20, 21, there's absolutely nothing wrong with sending them to the AHL... And then players like Schneider step right in and look like they belong instead of looking like they're completely overwhelmed like our first and second overalls.

 

End of day, coming in here hot like you have been I just trashing people because they've said certain players stink, don't forget that the people saying these players think also aren't wrong. Will they stink tomorrow is anybody's guess, but some players are starting to look better than others and you are starting to see glimpses of what's possible. It should be an exciting time for everybody, not a time to come in here and say "see I told you so" because of one highlight real goal against a terrible team and goalie.

 

You know it would have been great, if he followed up his four shots in 13 minutes with two goals performance against Detroit with something better than a two-shot performance in 15 minutes against Winnipeg.

 

Who says you can't say that?  What I'm saying is exactly that.  Opinions on players change.  Kreider anyone?  No less on a kid who can't legally buy a beer.  Yet some here want to write these kids off because they didn't immediately gratify some peoples perception of what they should be.  Lundqvist, Kakko and Laf have all disappointed to different degrees.  They are all kids.  Lundqvist has gone to the Ahl and as far as I can tell has done exactly what he should be doing.  Developed.  He struggled early and has since played well.  Kakko can't stay healthy, when he has played this year he has noticeably looked better and effective without putting up the numbers people hope for.  He far from stinks though.  He's actually a very good defensive player that has considerable offensive upside.  Something that with patience will bear fruit as long as he can stay healthy.  Laf has been improving nicely.  He has shown glimpses of a special skill set and he has produced 5 on 5 actually pretty well.  I have zero worries about him.  

 

No where here have I stated "I told you so" or even offered up my 2 cents about which players I value over others.  I'm merely stating in a thread titled "time for a Laf reset" that people by and large need to chill out and let him develop.  It's impatience pure and simple.

 

As far as saying Laf or whomever didn't belong in the NHL until a couple months ago.  I present you stats that put him in the top 50 at ES goals.  Dryden Hunt and Gregg McKegg are currently on the roster.  Yet Laf with 17 ES goals doesn't belong?  A little much no?  

 

I'm here all the time by the way I just choose not to post as much because I don't want to.  I'm keenly aware of who is who here.  There is nothing ever in your posts that allows for people to change their opinions.  Everything is absolute with you and 90% of the threads here has you in a heated discussion with someone.  Far as I knew I'm a member here as well and I can post in the hockey section.   I'm posting that the fans need more patience with these young kids.  Period.  Why that get's me this reply from you is a sincere question.  I didn't come in here hot, I stated something obvious.  It's also obvious that NY fans don't have patience.   It's not a told you so moment.  It won't be me telling anyone that, ever. 

Edited April 20, 2022 by Capt

[Capt]

Oh and Laf has exactly zero empty net goals this year.https://www.statmuse.com/nhl/ask/how-many-empty-net-goals-does-lafreniere-have-this-season

 

I'm fine with trading anybody.  I'm not trading Miller though for a 40 year old UFA.

 

You can say Lundkvist stinks , hell say whatever you want. Somebody saying his career is over at 21 after 2 months in this country is going to get a rebuttal from me as being ridiculous.  

Edited April 20, 2022 by Capt

[Pete]

22 minutes ago, Capt said:

Oh and Laf has exactly zero empty net goals this year.https://www.statmuse.com/nhl/ask/how-many-empty-net-goals-does-lafreniere-have-this-season

 

Like I said, he's got a ton of goals where there was no goalie in the net. I didn't say "empty net goal". If you watch every single goal he's scored this year, you can see it.

 

Quote

I'm fine with trading anybody.  I'm not trading Miller though for a 40 year old UFA.

 

You can say Lundkvist stinks , hell say whatever you want. Somebody saying his career is over at 21 after 2 months in this country is going to get a rebuttal from me as being ridiculous.

That's cool, but no one is saying that.

Edited April 20, 2022 by Pete

[Pete]

28 minutes ago, Capt said:

Who says you can't say that?  What I'm saying is exactly that.  Opinions on players change.  Kreider anyone?  No less on a kid who can't legally buy a beer.  Yet some here want to write these kids off because they didn't immediately gratify some peoples perception of what they should be.  Lundqvist, Kakko and Laf have all disappointed to different degrees.  They are all kids.  Lundqvist has gone to the Ahl and as far as I can tell has done exactly what he should be doing.  Developed.  He struggled early and has since played well.  Kakko can't stay healthy, when he has played this year he has noticeably looked better and effective without putting up the numbers people hope for.  He far from stinks though.  He's actually a very good defensive player that has considerable offensive upside.  Something that with patience will bear fruit as long as he can stay healthy.  Laf has been improving nicely.  He has shown glimpses of a special skill set and he has produced 5 on 5 actually pretty well.  I have zero worries about him.

You're accusing people of writing players off. Who's doing that?

 

Quote

 

 

No where here have I stated "I told you so" or even offered up my 2 cents about which players I value over others.  I'm merely stating in a thread titled "time for a Laf reset" that people by and large need to chill out and let him develop.  It's impatience pure and simple.

As far as saying Laf or whomever didn't belong in the NHL until a couple months ago.  I present you stats that put him in the top 50 at ES goals.  Dryden Hunt and Gregg McKegg are currently on the roster.  Yet Laf with 17 ES goals doesn't belong?  A little much no?

McKegg and Hunt are 4th liners. Why are you comparing them to Laf? Do you want Laf on the 4th line? "Doesn't belong in the NHL" as a 19 year old simply means they should be developing in the AHL. 

 

Quote

 

 

I'm here all the time by the way I just choose not to post as much because I don't want to.  I'm keenly aware of who is who here.  There is nothing ever in your posts that allows for people to change their opinions.  Everything is absolute with you and 90% of the threads here has you in a heated discussion with someone.  Far as I knew I'm a member here as well and I can post in the hockey section.   I'm posting that the fans need more patience with these young kids.  Period.  Why that get's me this reply from you is a sincere question.  I didn't come in here hot, I stated something obvious.  It's also obvious that NY fans don't have patience.   It's not a told you so moment.  It won't be me telling anyone that, ever. 

Glad you were able to get that out of your system. Now you can focus on discussing opinions, and not make personal comments.