Are the Rangers F**king Everything Up?

[ThirtyONE]

In some way the rebuild began with the Derrick Brassard for Mika trade. Undoubtably a win. But there haven't been many "wins" beyond that aside from a couple lucky ping pong balls.

 

Let's do a breakdown of what's happening here and who, if anyone, is at fault:

 

The Coach:

 

I know it's pretty popular to shit on David Quinn right now. He's the easiest target. But the team was actually pretty damn good last year with almost the same exact players. Multiple players had career years which, has to be attributed to Quinn if you're going to blame him for the state of things right now.

 

It's hard not to look at the way he uses players and scratch your head, but if you can remember back to Renney, Torts, AV, and really any other coach, we said the same thing about them too. If Quinn was fired and Jacques Martin was hired, I'm 100% positive we'd have the same issues as fans.

 

I think it's pretty obvious confidence is king when it comes to young players in particular. So, if we're going to be dead last anyway, why not give Kakko and Lafreniere top minutes to help them gain confidence? What's the point of playing them 10 minutes a game?

 

Before last night's game Quinn said be basically forgot to put Kakko on the ice against Buffalo. Is that good coaching? I don't know.

 

It's been stated that most 1st and 2nd overall picks have an immediate impact yet here we are, in back to back years, where this is not the case. You're telling me both consensus picks are busts? That's impossible. Why can't this coach get anything out of these players? And what about Kravstov and Anderson? They both had issues with the coach. Are they pussies? Maybe. But so far that's FOUR top picks who haven't played well for the Rangers under David Quinn.

 

 

The GM

 

I've been one of Gorton's biggest fans. I think it took balls to dismantle the team when things were clearly not going in the right direction. I think he's made some great trades including Nash to Boston and Brassard to Ottawa. But what's going on with this team is his doing, IMO. There are absolutely no veterans on the team. There's no one to lean on when shit gets hard. Just because a player is over 30 doesn't mean they're trash.

 

You think about Crosby living with Mario Lemieux and Matthews living with Marleau. Stutzle is living with Derek Stepan. Rangers couldn't even bother to put Kakko with a Finnish family or get him a Finnish teammate. They had to fly some scout in for a week last year because he was fucking homesick and not adjusting well. Who's Lafreniere living with? K'Andre Miller? It's just obvious oversight and an absolute joke that they're not treating these two kids like they're the future of the franchise. They HAVE TO pan out or else this team is going to SUCK for a long long time.

 

I'm sure there's a lot to said about the amount of dead cap space and the propensity to buying players out and WASTING millions of dollars but I'm too annoyed to go on.

 

 

The President

 

So far JD hasn't had to make any tough decisions. He got here and the team was in a pretty good spot. But now the wheels have fallen off. Players are fighting each other. The fans are calling for the coaches head. The highly drafted players are not producing and neither are the the highly paid players. This isn't Columbus. Sitting around and chalking it up to a "step back" isn't going to go over very well here. If I've got faith in anyone, it's JD so it's hard to pin this on him. But it seems like he has some decisions to make...

[Pete]

Key and Laf have the same billet, they're living in the same house and Key is fine...Kakko lived with Smith. I don't think there's a really big Finnish hockey community in NYC they can tap into.

 

I think the decision to buy out Lundy was tough for JD.

 

That said, yea Gorton is just an average GM, at best. Getting someone to take Staal was actually his best move. Everything else fell in his lap. Negotiating against himself with Trouba was probably his biggest blunder.

[Mistercosmic]

I tell myself to be patient and show confidence, but they don't make it easy for me. DQ is definitely not the longterm answer on the bench and during the last months I lost a big part of my faith in the management.

 

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[siddious]

Rebuilds take years. They lucked out getting kakko and laf back to back but that?s just a tiny aspect of rebuilding. I think they will play better than they have been so far this season. I know everyone is panicking but this is the youngest team in the league and they?re playing like it.

 

 

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[The Dude]

Forgot to ask this and it may need its own thread.

With Lundqvist going down with that heart condition as a Capital, I've been told (guy at work) this condition was known about as a Ranger but was deemed not serious... If this is true how the hell did the Rangers not use his condition as an out for his contract. Jesus, if they didn't buy him out, he goes on LTIR and doesn't cost them any cap hit.

 

They kost certainly are F-ing this up every way possible. O thought bringing JD in was going to put the team over the top and in a good direction. Player wise they have been handed a very good, very young roster, with star power and star potential. Yet, they seem like they are frazzled and scrambling at ever level. Adding the first and second overall picks to a roster containing Panarin, Zib, Kreider, Trouba, Fox and DeAngelo should be yielding better results.

 

They really look lost.

[Winter]

they lost "rebuilding" as an excuse when they gave out a near $12mil per year contract

[Drew a Penalty]

they lost "rebuilding" as an excuse when they gave out a near $12mil per year contract

 

To one of the best players in the league who was 27 at the time. That hasn't done anything to stop the rebuild's progress and it's not as though he won't be present for the end of the rebuild.

 

I think the team has stalled but I don't think they've fucked up. There are still plenty of good and workable pieces. The issue is that there hasn't been enough tangible progress of late. Change the coach. Give the team an identity. They're not in a place where the rebuild needs to go on in perpetuity. They've hit a rough spot.

[torontonyr]

No

[josh]

If only they read more of my tweets!

[Phil]

To one of the best players in the league who was 27 at the time. That hasn't done anything to stop the rebuild's progress and it's not as though he won't be present for the end of the rebuild.

 

I think the team has stalled but I don't think they've fucked up. There are still plenty of good and workable pieces. The issue is that there hasn't been enough tangible progress of late. Change the coach. Give the team an identity. They're not in a place where the rebuild needs to go on in perpetuity. They've hit a rough spot.

 

Agree with all of this. They've stalled some, but this isn't fucked up because the studs of the foundation aren't gone or destroyed yet. Kakko, Chytil, Lafreniere, Lundkvist, Robertson, Miller, Schneider, Jones, Kravtsov, etc are all still here and/or on the way with nowhere to go but up.

 

 

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[BrooksBurner]

they lost "rebuilding" as an excuse when they gave out a near $12mil per year contract

 

It certainly ruined their ability to net better draft picks....err, wait.

[lefty9]

Rebuilds take years. They lucked out getting kakko and laf back to back but that’s just a tiny aspect of rebuilding. I think they will play better than they have been so far this season. I know everyone is panicking but this is the youngest team in the league and they’re playing like it.

 

 

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pretty much right on

[Winter]

To one of the best players in the league who was 27 at the time. That hasn't done anything to stop the rebuild's progress and it's not as though he won't be present for the end of the rebuild.

 

I think the team has stalled but I don't think they've fucked up. There are still plenty of good and workable pieces. The issue is that there hasn't been enough tangible progress of late. Change the coach. Give the team an identity. They're not in a place where the rebuild needs to go on in perpetuity. They've hit a rough spot.

 

You're acting like i was blaming Panarin for the current regression im blaming management and saying that they're out of excuses, especially the "we're rebuilding" one for the regression we're seeing, player development continues to be a joke.

 

as much as i hate him trading Hayes and not Kreider might be the biggest mistake they've made over the past few years.. either way im starting to see how it feels to be an Oilers fan today.

[josh]

They just waived a guy recently signed for $10m and another guy they signed to a huge contract allegedly punched a teammate.

 

Hashtag Rangers

[Drew a Penalty]

You're acting like i was blaming Panarin for the current regression im blaming management and saying that they're out of excuses, especially the "we're rebuilding" one for the regression we're seeing, player development continues to be a joke.

 

as much as i hate him trading Hayes and not Kreider might be the biggest mistake they've made over the past few years.. either way im starting to see how it feels to be an Oilers fan today.

 

So then how Panarin signal the end of the rebuild? They've continued their rebuild in spite of his presence. They've been accruing draft capital and have yet to see the fruits of their efforts because most of their picks aren't even pro hockey players yet.

[Ozzy]

I gotta admit, I hate watching them blow leads and make silly mistakes, but this is a guy who watched the Islanders as an expansion team back in 1972-1973. This Rangers team doesn't look as bad as they did, but the mistakes they make are very similar. My point is that this is what I considered a rebuild to be, and it's kinda what I expected...probably for a little while.

 

The patience thing has to go a long way in my eyes, and the guys that know me well, know I'm never patient with this team. The next 2 seasons are going to be like this in my estimation. Does it bother me? Do I get frustrated? Hell yeah!!

 

But I've come to grips with the fact that what we have now and what we'll have 3 seasons from now is going to look like we took this group, trimmed some of the fat off, and have a well oiled machine of a nucleus. It's going to happen, and it's going to take time.

 

I also think Quinn needs time to learn all these knuckleheads too! He's got very little experience too, He's going to learn & make mistakes too, just like our players. We now know, or have known that ADA is basically a cancerous, flaming jack off...so he's outta here. Good!! Don't let the door hit him in the ass on the way out. Fuck it if we couldn't trade him. He's an addition by subtraction, in my eyes. Let him go fuck up someone else's locker room.

 

Hang tough fellas, we'll get there! It's gonna be a rough go for a little while, but I really think there's some good promise in the nucleus of what's to be here!!

[Winter]

So then how Panarin signal the end of the rebuild? They've continued their rebuild in spite of his presence. They've been accruing draft capital and have yet to see the fruits of their efforts because most of their picks aren't even pro hockey players yet.

 

SO when are we no longer rebuilding? another 4 top 5 picks, Oilers 2.0? Lafreniere 9minutes of ice time last night, this is a player development fail.

[Sharpshooter]

SO when are we no longer rebuilding? another 4 top 5 picks, Oilers 2.0? Lafreniere 9minutes of ice time last night, this is a player development fail.

 

LOL I just posted this in the game thread. You beat me to it. Yeah, that's really messed up. Quinn needs to go before he permanently damages these guys. I know they're only 18-19 years old, but nothing about how they've been handled has been good.

[jsm7302]

SO when are we no longer rebuilding? another 4 top 5 picks, Oilers 2.0? Lafreniere 9minutes of ice time last night, this is a player development fail.

Maybe they want to mess it up so bad that LAF asks for a trade and we lost him for close to nothing too......

[Sharpshooter]

Lafreniere for Lias straight up.

[Drew a Penalty]

SO when are we no longer rebuilding? another 4 top 5 picks, Oilers 2.0? Lafreniere 9minutes of ice time last night, this is a player development fail.

 

We're six days away from it being three years since they released "The Letter" to fans acknowledging the rebuild. Are you of mind that the rebuild should be over? Rebuilds don't take three years. They take longer. As I said, most of the players the Rangers drafted so far in the rebuild aren't even playing pro hockey. Their top picks are either still developing at the NHL level or not even there yet. The only reason it's been fast-tracked is because they've lucked into back-to-back top two picks. Those top two picks, however, don't make up for the fact they're deficient in other areas because their drafted reinforcements haven't arrived yet. They're still not even free of the contracts that have been weighing on them for years.

 

They're lacking in progress in some areas absolutely, but they're still largely ahead of schedule as compared to when they released the letter.

[SaveByRichter35]

We're six days away from it being three years since they released "The Letter" to fans acknowledging the rebuild. Are you of mind that the rebuild should be over? Rebuilds don't take three years. They take longer. As I said, most of the players the Rangers drafted so far in the rebuild aren't even playing pro hockey. Their top picks are either still developing at the NHL level or not even there yet. The only reason it's been fast-tracked is because they've lucked into back-to-back top two picks. Those top two picks, however, don't make up for the fact they're deficient in other areas because their drafted reinforcements haven't arrived yet. They're still not even free of the contracts that have been weighing on them for years.

 

They're lacking in progress in some areas absolutely, but they're still largely ahead of schedule as compared to when they released the letter.

 

I totally get this point of view as far as how long rebuilds take and I completely agree that its a long term process, not short term. However, I think the Rangers are a special case. The top 6-7 forward spots are all set long term, the top 3-4 defensive spots, as well as our starting goalie. Whether that be set by guys already signed to long term contracts(Kreider, Trouba, Panarin) or guys who will be here long term but haven't yet signed long term(Zibanejad, Buchnevich, Lafreniere, Kakko, Fox, Lindgren, Miller, Shesterkin). Granted, some of those players signed long term might one day find themselves on they way out(Kreider/Trouba)I think this is a unique rebuilding situation that is really no longer a rebuild. I guess it is really semantics how you want to describe it but I think the rebuild is pretty much over and now the organization is just spending a year in limbo waiting for a lot of dead cap to clear so they can do the work to make it officially over next season.

[SaveByRichter35]

I totally get this point of view as far as how long rebuilds take and I completely agree that its a long term process, not short term. However, I think the Rangers are a special case. The top 6-7 forward spots are all set long term, the top 3-4 defensive spots, as well as our starting goalie. Whether that be set by guys already signed to long term contracts(Kreider, Trouba, Panarin) or guys who will be here long term but haven't yet signed long term(Zibanejad, Buchnevich, Lafreniere, Kakko, Fox, Lindgren, Miller, Shesterkin). Granted, some of those players signed long term might one day find themselves on they way out(Kreider/Trouba)I think this is a unique rebuilding situation that is really no longer a rebuild. I guess it is really semantics how you want to describe it but I think the rebuild is pretty much over and now the organization is just spending a year in limbo waiting for a lot of dead cap to clear so they can do the work to make it officially over next season.

 

With that said, I think the remainder of this season really needs to be spent getting Laf, Kakko, and Miller as much ice time as possible with the correct line mates that will put them in positions to succeed.

[ThirtyONE]

Something that was brought up on the Steve Dangle Podcast - which is a good podcast for anyone that's never heard it - is that Lias Andersson refused to play for the Rangers because of what he says was a bullying issue.

 

Now, most of us here swept that under the rug and called him a pussy, but they made the point that the Rangers took no responsibility in that. Instead of trying to fix the issue they shipped him to another team. Who knows what Andersson will become but that was the 7th overall pick that felt ostracized in the room and the team chose the room over him.

 

If I'm not mistaken, didn't Kravstov ALSO have quotes about something similar two camps ago?

 

I'm not saying this is Tony but clearly something is/was rotten in the locker room to the point where you have at lease one, if not two, important pieces who are uncomfortable even playing for the organization.

 

Now we go to Kakko where there were no reports of bullying but the Rangers couldn't bring in a Finnish player to help him assimilate. Arguably the future of the franchise and the Rangers did what they normally do with American kids: sent him to live in the suburbs where Brendan Smith picks him up for practice. Smith, who even said Kakko basically didn't talk /or wasn't ABLE to talk because of the language barrier. You know, Federov's rise was in part due to the 4-5 other Russians brought in around him. Why couldn't the Rangers see this? They clearly saw it was an issue mid-season when they had to fly someone in for a week to hang out with him lol.

 

On to Miller: The Rangers did nothing but release a statement when Miller did a Q&A in which "fans" filled the inbox with n-words. That was his first taste of the NHL. Racism. then he's brought onto the team and within 8 games he's in the news again because of alleged racism. JD swept it under the rug and clearly they want this whole thing to disappear, but Adam Herman stands by his report which is fucking interesting and terrible all at once.

 

Clearly, the Rangers organization have not supported these young players properly. This is a rebuild in which your 7th overall refuses to play for your team. The 10th overall has yet to play a game. the 22nd overall is entangled in two potential racist events, the 2nd overall is homesick and struggles to even be in the lineup.

That's without talking about Lafreniere who so far through 8 games has played on 3 different lines and 2 different positions lol.

 

Call me crazy, but it doesn't really seem like the Rangers know what the fuck they're doing.

[LindG1000]

It's sort of odd because we have to consider a few truly weird things that make this rebuild "not normal", not the least of which is that our younger players lost 10 months of development time because of the pandemic, and their ability to grow as players and professionals is still somewhat hampered by it.

 

Our rebuild is over in the sense that we've got the assets to piece the team together. It's not over in the sense that we're heading into phase 2 here - translating the talent into on-ice outcomes.