Official Fire Quinn Thread

[Keirik]

First of all, Hank and Staal were not "run out of town." They sucked pretty bad and have for the last few years. Their careers are over at this point.

 

But this team was going to miss the playoffs this year, no matter what. Division is way too hard. I think that's a pretty honest assessment. It's not make or break, and in fact JD has said over and over again that throughout this process there are setbacks. Two steps forward, one step back kind of thing. "It's a process."

 

So far this season feels like the step back we were all hoping didn't exist, but inevitably always does.

 

I don't blame Gorton for hiring Quinn. I think Quinn has done a good job. This team had no business being as good as they were last year. But they lucked into two top-end prospects and they need to treat them as such. I'm sure they never planned on that, but the plan has changed. Lafreniere and Kakko are the next faces of the Rangers franchise. Not Panarin. Not Zibanejad. Not Fox. Shesterkin. Miller, etc. Kakko and Lafreniere are the two players opposing teams will have to game plan for. Mackinnon and Rantanen. Marner and Matthews. But the Rangers don't seem to recognize that because they think they're better than they are.

 

All those guys mentioned were basically handed the keys to their respective teams. They were on the ice when they needed a goal. On the ice when they needed a stop. On the PP. On with an extra skater. That's how those guys learned to play the game. Even if they failed, they were the best players on the team so they just continued to go out and learn.

 

The Rangers are SO LUCKY to have Lafreniere. I know Kreider just signed, but I'm sorry, he's a 3rd liner on this team now. Lafreniere should be on the 1st line with Zibanejad.

 

Rangers are LUCKY to have Kakko. He should be on the 2nd line. With Panarin.

 

Give. These. Kids. A. Chance. Let them make mistakes. That's part of the deal. I know the Rangers want to "win now" but the plan has changed with these two prospects.

so wait, Henriks contract wasn't bought out after being forced into a 3 goalie rotation where he would often 10+ days without playing and he signed with another team and Staal wasnt traded for a bag of puck and still is playing elsewhere? I'm not blaming what happened but lets call a spade a spade. They were forced out of town. Nothing on their own about it.

 

 

ALF and Kakko are not the biggest problems with this team. They just are a worry because they are not performing as advertised. Even moreso with ALF. What's the use of comparing Kakko and ALF to guys like Marner and Matthews who both had 60-70 points EACH in their rookie seasons. Same thing for MacKinnon. Maybe Rantanen who had 30+ points and exploded second year for 80+? Think Kakko is there? Kakko could get 60 points in 3 years combined at this rate. So none of that above really holds water in my opinion

 

 

 

. We DO have Zibanejad, Fox, Panarin, Kreider, They didnt sign Panarin to be a placeholder. He's here until after the 2025 season. They didnt extend Kreider for that either. Here the same time. They didnt bring in Trouba to just occupy a few seasons and say "Well when these guys are gone ALF and Kakko will be ready." Nonesense. It's not about exactly winning now as it is to be in positions to progress positively. Last year wasn't a fluke. They are a talented team. I'm not saying they should be competing for the cup but absolutely should be in the thick of the standings, not basement dwellers looking to finally earn the 1st overall pick instead of being gifted it.

[Jeremy9654]

Goaltending has been a big problem but going back to last years playoffs—this team looks like its going through the motions. No fire, no tenacity, no passion. To me thats on the coach. Scary part is that this is how theyve come out of the gate. How are they going to look next month when they are out of a playoff spot and have nothing to play for?

[Scott]

so wait, Henriks contract wasn't bought out after being forced into a 3 goalie rotation where he would often 10+ days without playing and he signed with another team and Staal wasnt traded for a bag of puck and still is playing elsewhere? I'm not blaming what happened but lets call a spade a spade. They were forced out of town. Nothing on their own about it.

 

 

ALF and Kakko are not the biggest problems with this team. They just are a worry because they are not performing as advertised. Even moreso with ALF. What's the use of comparing Kakko and ALF to guys like Marner and Matthews who both had 60-70 points EACH in their rookie seasons. Same thing for MacKinnon. Maybe Rantanen who had 30+ points and exploded second year for 80+? Think Kakko is there? Kakko could get 60 points in 3 years combined at this rate. So none of that above really holds water in my opinion

 

 

 

. We DO have Zibanejad, Fox, Panarin, Kreider, They didnt sign Panarin to be a placeholder. He's here until after the 2025 season. They didnt extend Kreider for that either. Here the same time. They didnt bring in Trouba to just occupy a few seasons and say "Well when these guys are gone ALF and Kakko will be ready." Nonesense. It's not about exactly winning now as it is to be in positions to progress positively. Last year wasn't a fluke. They are a talented team. I'm not saying they should be competing for the cup but absolutely should be in the thick of the standings, not basement dwellers looking to finally earn the 1st overall pick instead of being gifted it.

 

Well said. As you said Panarin, Kreider, Trouba, Zib, Fox and Buch (at this point) are not here just to carry the jock straps of Kakko and Alf, they're just not. Now they may all retire before Kakko turns into McKinnon I'll give you that much. Those two kids are important for sure but this team is not those two at this point nor in the next couple of years. Can they at least show something sustainable first other than what we've seen so far. So far we've seen a combined shitshow from all.

[Gravesy]

I've no real love or hatred for Quinn, but I will say this much: this team has lacked structure and posture every day he's been here. He strikes me as a wonderful person and motivator, but a poor tactician and strategist, and the fact that this many high-profile young players don't seem to be making very much progress is a stain on his tenure in my eyes. It's not just the losing, either. Losing is something all young teams do, but losing this boringly and in this uninspired a manner just isn't acceptable.

 

That we can effectively count the team out of games they're trailing in going into the third period is damning of his coaching ability. That the Rangers come out flat as a board in most games is damning of his coaching ability. That Lafreniere and Kakko look like plugs, rather than first- and second-overall offensive dynamos respectively, is damning of his coaching ability. Hell, that he's entering his third NHL season and hasn't seemed to carve out a stable of reliable soldiers is damning of his coaching ability.

 

Barring a total collapse here, or a mutiny, I'd imagine he still gets a lot more time to figure things out, but I'm getting pretty close to being wholly welcome of a coaching change.

 

Couldn?t agree more. Well said.

I think he gets to see the season out unless it becomes untenable, either a Detroit style run of results or if he completely loses the room. I can live with that. But it?s becoming more and more clear to me that he isn?t the one who should be behind the bench when the window truly opens.

[Rangers]

Who is available besides Gallant ?

[Phil]

Who is available besides Gallant ?

 

Boudreau.

[ThirtyONE]

so wait, Henriks contract wasn't bought out after being forced into a 3 goalie rotation where he would often 10+ days without playing and he signed with another team and Staal wasnt traded for a bag of puck and still is playing elsewhere? I'm not blaming what happened but lets call a spade a spade. They were forced out of town. Nothing on their own about it.

 

 

ALF and Kakko are not the biggest problems with this team. They just are a worry because they are not performing as advertised. Even moreso with ALF. What's the use of comparing Kakko and ALF to guys like Marner and Matthews who both had 60-70 points EACH in their rookie seasons. Same thing for MacKinnon. Maybe Rantanen who had 30+ points and exploded second year for 80+? Think Kakko is there? Kakko could get 60 points in 3 years combined at this rate. So none of that above really holds water in my opinion

 

 

 

. We DO have Zibanejad, Fox, Panarin, Kreider, They didnt sign Panarin to be a placeholder. He's here until after the 2025 season. They didnt extend Kreider for that either. Here the same time. They didnt bring in Trouba to just occupy a few seasons and say "Well when these guys are gone ALF and Kakko will be ready." Nonesense. It's not about exactly winning now as it is to be in positions to progress positively. Last year wasn't a fluke. They are a talented team. I'm not saying they should be competing for the cup but absolutely should be in the thick of the standings, not basement dwellers looking to finally earn the 1st overall pick instead of being gifted it.

 

My whole point about these guys is that since the Rangers didn't absolutely blow when they joined the team, they aren't being treated like most highly-touted players who join the league. MOST highly touted players become the instant face of the franchise. They play top minutes. The team sucks but they learn how to play at this level.

 

The Rangers are sheltering both players. They're trying to not let them fail or punishing them when they do instead of letting them just play the damn game. 10 minutes a night is not enough for these guys.

 

My point is Kreider would never have been signed if they knew Laf was coming. Why? Because Laf can take his spot in the lineup. Great! So let him take his spot! Kreider's potential has toped out. We know what kind of player he is. Let Laf take his spot and learn the game. Score goals. Make mistakes. Win games. Lose games. Whatever.

 

My fear is that they're so concerned with winning games that they're not letting these two kids get any fucking confidence. They need to contribute to get confidence and that's not going to happen on the 3rd line with Brett Howden or with 10 minutes of ice time.

[Keirik]

Who is available besides Gallant ?

 

Gallant, Bylsma, Babcock, Boudreau are the four available names really

[Keirik]

My whole point about these guys is that since the Rangers didn't absolutely blow when they joined the team, they aren't being treated like most highly-touted players who join the league. MOST highly touted players become the instant face of the franchise. They play top minutes. The team sucks but they learn how to play at this level.

 

The Rangers are sheltering both players. They're trying to not let them fail or punishing them when they do instead of letting them just play the damn game. 10 minutes a night is not enough for these guys.

 

My point is Kreider would never have been signed if they knew Laf was coming. Why? Because Laf can take his spot in the lineup. Great! So let him take his spot! Kreider's potential has toped out. We know what kind of player he is. Let Laf take his spot and learn the game. Score goals. Make mistakes. Win games. Lose games. Whatever.

 

My fear is that they're so concerned with winning games that they're not letting these two kids get any fucking confidence. They need to contribute to get confidence and that's not going to happen on the 3rd line with Brett Howden or with 10 minutes of ice time.

I get part of that but I mean a winning culture also breeds confidence and plenty of superstars have had mentors along the way. Panarin himself, albeit 23 when he came in, came into a team with Kane and Toews already there. The problem is our current big guys are playing very very small. It’s not really that ALF and Kakko aren’t allowed to be themselves. Last year Kakko was horrid. His foot speed, decision making, and analytics weren’t a product because Artemi was keeping him down.

I get it, Howden isn’t the ideal linemate to help develop but the lesser matchups and pressure should theoretically be just as beneficial. I think you need the right coach though. When things aren’t going well it shows even moreso.

I don’t think they bring back Kreider either if they knew they had ALF but it is what it is. That still shouldn’t be looked at as something negative though

Not now. If we are going to be a bottom dwelling team though then it definitely is a problem but I don’t think we overachieved last year. This is a team with a very good roster lol. If you took Quinn and replaced him with many coaches around the NHL I think it would make a huge difference. I truly honestly believe that.

[Karan]

I've no real love or hatred for Quinn, but I will say this much: this team has lacked structure and posture every day he's been here. He strikes me as a wonderful person and motivator, but a poor tactician and strategist, and the fact that this many high-profile young players don't seem to be making very much progress is a stain on his tenure in my eyes. It's not just the losing, either. Losing is something all young teams do, but losing this boringly and in this uninspired a manner just isn't acceptable.

 

That we can effectively count the team out of games they're trailing in going into the third period is damning of his coaching ability. That the Rangers come out flat as a board in most games is damning of his coaching ability. That Lafreniere and Kakko look like plugs, rather than first- and second-overall offensive dynamos respectively, is damning of his coaching ability. Hell, that he's entering his third NHL season and hasn't seemed to carve out a stable of reliable soldiers is damning of his coaching ability.

 

Barring a total collapse here, or a mutiny, I'd imagine he still gets a lot more time to figure things out, but I'm getting pretty close to being wholly welcome of a coaching change.

 

Sad, but true. I really like Quinn as a person and his character, but this team has zero fight under him.

[ThirtyONE]

I get part of that but I mean a winning culture also breeds confidence and plenty of superstars have had mentors along the way. Panarin himself, albeit 23 when he came in, came into a team with Kane and Toews already there. The problem is our current big guys are playing very very small. It’s not really that ALF and Kakko aren’t allowed to be themselves. Last year Kakko was horrid. His foot speed, decision making, and analytics weren’t a product because Artemi was keeping him down.

I get it, Howden isn’t the ideal linemate to help develop but the lesser matchups and pressure should theoretically be just as beneficial. I think you need the right coach though. When things aren’t going well it shows even moreso.

I don’t think they bring back Kreider either if they knew they had ALF but it is what it is. That still shouldn’t be looked at as something negative though

Not now. If we are going to be a bottom dwelling team though then it definitely is a problem but I don’t think we overachieved last year. This is a team with a very good roster lol. If you took Quinn and replaced him with many coaches around the NHL I think it would make a huge difference. I truly honestly believe that.

 

I think the roster is quite good as well. Even for how young they are. They're not THIS bad. Maybe a win in the next game changes their mentality and gets them rolling, I don't know. I do know that with the shortened season, this one is pretty much on the brink already. We're very close to playing meaningless hockey for the next 4 months.

 

So does the Ranger brass chalk this up to a down year? A step back after 2 steps forward? Strangely a decision is coming one way or another and deciding to do nothing is still a decision. Is Quinn the guy? I'm sure that's being discussed.

[Keirik]

I think the roster is quite good as well. Even for how young they are. They're not THIS bad. Maybe a win in the next game changes their mentality and gets them rolling, I don't know. I do know that with the shortened season, this one is pretty much on the brink already. We're very close to playing meaningless hockey for the next 4 months.

 

So does the Ranger brass chalk this up to a down year? A step back after 2 steps forward? Strangely a decision is coming one way or another and deciding to do nothing is still a decision. Is Quinn the guy? I'm sure that's being discussed.

 

That’s my concern as well. If we are 15 games in and season is over, that conversation of Quinn NOT being the guy better be head because I want the next 40+ games to be with the next coach to establish our future, not a ho hum we gotta be better Quinnless attitude and different rules for the fave five.

[Winter]

Who is available besides Gallant ?

 

Jim Montgomery the guy we wanted back then is an assistant in STL.

[ThirtyONE]

Jim Montgomery the guy we wanted back then is an assistant in STL.

 

Didn't something happen with him? Honestly the list of coaches available is not good. Boudreau might be the worse of all.

[Scott]

Didn't something happen with him? Honestly the list of coaches available is not good. Boudreau might be the worse of all.

 

Left the game to address his alcohol addiction.

[Flynn]

Didn't something happen with him? Honestly the list of coaches available is not good. Boudreau might be the worse of all.

 

Bad drinking problem

[Sod16]

I don't think they would want to hire a permanent coach with what's available in the middle of the year, and I doubt they want to go the interim route, so Quinn may survive as a dead man walking if things get bad.

 

Two or three straight wins and everyone's happy.

[ThirtyONE]

I don't think they would want to hire a permanent coach with what's available in the middle of the year, and I doubt they want to go the interim route, so Quinn may survive as a dead man walking if things get bad.

 

Two or three straight wins and everyone's happy.

 

Very true.

 

...but two or three straight losses and the season's more or less in the toilet. If things are bad now... lol it'll be a circus if that happens.

[The Dude]

My thoughts on the Johnson thing.. Let me preface this by saying the guy is obviously done in the NHL and its my belief that as the season goes on we will see less and less of him. But on the flip side you cant sign a guy then not give him a chance to play. It's early in the season, even after a bad game or 3 you have to give him the option to bounce back if you want to get any positive use out of him. It's bad optics for future signing if he has one bad stretch and gets perma-benched. With that said who else do you play on the PK? Has DeAngelo even showed up for the season yet? Miller Fox and Lindgren cant play 60 minutes.

 

Ill give Quinn shit if after 10-15 games hes still a regular.

 

Trouba on the other hand... ive made my opinion on him well known in the past. The guy should be a staple to the third pair.

 

But Johnson was thought to be signed as an insurance policy. Where's Hajek? Where's Robertson? Why isnt Smith playing over him? These guys should get the chance this guy is getting. That Mcdonagh trade is seriously looking like a fucking complete disaster, when the guy Gorton wanted the most isn't playing over Johnson. At this point Hajek is going to Seattle in the expansion draft

[Sharpshooter]

I never thought JD/Gorton would make a coaching change during another rebuilding year, but all we're seeing is further regression. At this point I'm worried that Quinn might totally mess up Kaako, even though he has looked better this year. I get that you have a lot of youth who need work, but shuffling them around every game isn't doing them any favors. I'm convinced he just pulls the line combinations out of a hat. If things do not get any better, though, I really don't see how you can keep him here. They don't really seem to have a whole lot of fight most nights. I don't know if it's a COVID hangover or what, but Zib looks like a completely different player. I know Panarin didn't like playing in the bubble, or empty arenas, if that's having an affect on his game. But, he needs to be better and deal with it.

 

The overall team fight level is just not good right now, and I haven't seen it that way in awhile. Until proven otherwise (it's been three years now), Quinn is an excellent college coach who still think he can coach the college game in the NHL with NHL players. They have one win in six games. I know they have a lot more youth this year, but they are still a better team than that.

[Keirik]

For the record, if they win 3 of their next 4 I still think Quinn isn’t the answer because by seasons end we will still see these long rollercoaster stretches

[Vodka Drunkenski]

Win or lose, I just want to see some structure and progression of the younger players. Quinn hasn?t really provided much of either.

[Sharpshooter]

One year ago they were playing some of the best hockey in the league, now there's only some semblance of hockey. What the hell happened? Yeah, I know there was some roster changes, and I think there may be some leadership issues. But, they still have talent and should be getting much better results than they are right now.

[Slobberknocker]

Win or lose, I just want to see some structure and progression of the younger players. Quinn hasn’t really provided much of either.

 

agree whole heartedly with this. guy was brought in here to be a teacher to the youth. haven't seen much of that either.

 

they never should have gotten rid of AV.

[Gravesy]

Win or lose, I just want to see some structure and progression of the younger players. Quinn hasn’t really provided much of either.

 

He hasn't been able to implement anything resembling a structure or identity in his first 2,5 years. It seems pretty unlikely that it's just around the corner.