Niko Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Somewhat off topic to this particular issue, but some what related, is the fact that everything everyone does is documented now. Stuff that you said and did as a 13 year old kid was memorialized on social media, tweeted, retweeted and then shared on tik tok. I can’t imagine being a kid now and I’m not that old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 Somewhat off topic to this particular issue, but some what related, is the fact that everything everyone does is documented now. Stuff that you said and did as a 13 year old kid was memorialized on social media, tweeted, retweeted and then shared on tik tok. I can?t imagine being a kid now and I?m not that old.Correct, which really just proves my point that when you're 14 you really don't understand what "forever" means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 Correct, which really just proves my point that when you're 14 you really don't understand what "forever" means. In this situation it seems like this kid isn’t really remorseful, as 10 teams that had a zoom call with him weren’t convinced he was really sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 There are also people who skate by without learning that what they did was wrong because they're good looking or popular or good at sports or not held accountable at home. Those people will repeat that predatory behavior because they believe they can. That fact that the judge did not believe he was remorseful and he never apologized to this kid and his family are massive red flags. He could have made it right but for whatever reason chose not to. In what universe do his parents fail to make him apologize to the kid and his family? Can we please not forget that they beat him up, too? This isn't cancel culture, it's a mom telling a horrific story about what happened to her child. She is using the court of public opinion (and bad publicity) to get satisfaction when Miller and his parents provided none. Sent from my SM-G970U using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Not taking the kids side anymore after more thought, BUT, there may be more behind the non apology if that's even true. Possible restraining order? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 We live in a very emotionally charged world today. There is both a heightened awareness and significant sensitivity. I doubt we have all the facts. Would be nice if the kid did apologize for his behavior while we have no idea what guidance this 14 year had. Was he told to stay away and not speak to the kid? How impaired is the kid? Would he remember if he was apologized too? How can the mother of 57 adopted kids know everything in their lives? How many years should a person be held responsible when their 14 year old developing adolescent mind demonstrated poor behavior (mean behavior)? Doubt the article has all the facts. Maybe there is more to the story, maybe less, IDK. When do both kids move on? When does it end? Very emotional times in the world today. I?m not sure what we?re looking for. Sometimes i get the feeling people are looking for the perfect world which sets the bar pretty high. Anything less than perfect there is an emotionally charged opposition who wants the less than perfect aspect destroyed with no let up. Did anybody asked the victim if he wanted Miller?s life ruined? What would his perfect world answer be? Edit - and we learned, yes, Miller was told to stay away from Isiah. Perfectly said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 In this situation it seems like this kid isn?t really remorseful, as 10 teams that had a zoom call with him weren?t convinced he was really sorry.Because Zoom calls are really the place where we decide how genuine people are... 2020 FTW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 You said: They literally tried to embrace the moment as a "teachable" one to make him accountable and "provide him with an opportunity to be a leader on anti-bullying and antiracism efforts." How are these "not anything close" to what you said? They attempted to spin his story into a redemption arc. The audience laughed it off, because as they said that, more information came out that he continued his behavior after his conviction, straining credulity that he'd actually learned a fucking thing, and the victim's mother then noted he never even apologized to his victim. That he couldn't do this in person isn't relevant. There's a thousand ways to say you're sorry. A public statement, a tweet, anything. Something, other than unconvincingly "apologizing" to potential employers when it's strategically convenient for you. But who is the audience? How big is the audience that "laughed it off"? Are we talking thousands of people or 10-20 who were following the story and felt the need to write complaint letters based on their opinions on what ever information was told to them? Who knows if that information was detailed enough or slanted? Its not like this was a huge story that swept the nation. Small groups of people who have an agenda or are hit a little harder on issues, should not be given the ability to cancel people. We see this with comedy and stand ups as well as other things. The minority rules isn't how it works. I really don't want to stick up for this price, but this cancel trend is getting out of control as its not consistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 Dude, kids see shit happening every fuckin day to other classmates, friends, etc. There is some kind of dumb shit happening on a daily basis in every school. Unfortunately for those kids, stupidity is not a defense. The older teens/twenties that act that way in a group with the belief they have plenty of people backing them up and their “rights”. Everyone is a gansta until it’s time to take matters into your own hands individually. There’s also a difference between understanding and not giving a fuck what the consequences are. I’m one of the dumb ones who usually chooses the latter. Good point. Definitely more don't give a fucks in both age groups but again I think that's due impart to them feeling like they can still hide behind their age as a shield or have their parents fight for them no matter what, which most parents would and should do... Kids definitely see shit happening to classmates every day. They even sit back and video it. But they never do anything to stop it. If anything, they egg it on.. I'm really starting to think all kids are just assholes. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 Because Zoom calls are really the place where we decide how genuine people are... 2020 FTW. I didn’t say that, but 10 is 10. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 Good point. Definitely more don't give a fucks in both age groups but again I think that's due impart to them feeling like they can still hide behind their age as a shield or have their parents fight for them no matter what, which most parents would and should do... Kids definitely see shit happening to classmates every day. They even sit back and video it. But they never do anything to stop it. If anything, they egg it on.. I'm really starting to think all kids are just assholes. Lol Not many people could do time. Fuck, most of these cunts can’t handle a quarantine in the luxury of their own home. When that cell door shuts behind you, usually people change their tune. What this kid did isn’t an offense where he’d get jail time, and after seeing my kid go through it, I have little confidence in what these therapy or group counseling classes actually teaches these kids. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keirik Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 The kid has become even more toxic than before which is more than UND is willing to take on. More than they signed up for, it's their call to make and they made it. I also for the life of me can not see any scenario where this kid was not permitted to apologize. I mean holy sh!t he could of done it through his attorneys if they felt he should not contact the family directly. He from all accounts chose not to show remorse and now he's going to pay the price. To me it's way more about what he hasn't done since the act(s) themselves. From and NHL teams perspective, I'm not sure why in the world you you take this on for a 4th round pick who's odds of playing 150 NHL games is I believe somewhere at 15% at best. It would seem to certainly not be worth the risk of it blowing up in your face which it certainly has here. If he was ordered by a judge to not contact him, as in order of protection stay away, he cannot use anyone to contact the family. Even if the family calls him up themselves and asks him to arrange a meeting to apologize, if he shows up he violates a court order and is subject to arrest regardless of what either party wishes. That at least is the way it goes in NYS but it’s probably the same there if there is a full stay away order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 If he was ordered by a judge to not contact him, as in order of protection stay away, he cannot use anyone to contact the family. Even if the family calls him up themselves and asks him to arrange a meeting to apologize, if he shows up he violates a court order and is subject to arrest regardless of what either party wishes. That at least is the way it goes in NYS but it’s probably the same there if there is a full stay away order. Not sure why the judge would of noted he didn't seem remorseful without taking that all into account. It appears on the surface at least as if the judge/magistrate as well as the family expected at least an apology. But yeah I guess anything is possible. Imo though sometimes things really are what they appear to be and in this case I'll side with the magistrate who heard or had access to all the details of the case and called him out for only feeling bad for the negative light being shined upon him and not the actions that got him there. It's not about never getting second chances in fact over the years even in a corp Wall st world we gave many second chances mostly around addictions, sometimes when people asked for help, sometimes when they got caught and then showed remorse. The ones that always always got shown the door were incidents of harassment. If there were any questions or doubts the offender was sent home (escorted out) immediately and told to stay away. HR would do whatever additional research that needed to be done immediately and a decision was made within a few days at most. Those people and many of them at the highest level of the company were never seen again. Can't remember a single one ever surviving the harassment "charge". I'm a lot older than most of you guys so I'm talking about seeing this stuff play over a 30+ year career. Guys and ladies with addictions were a different story in reality they were harming themselves and at times their performance, many of them got the help they were offered and needed and turned their lives around sometimes it took more than one try at it. It's a pretty small circle in the city at the top financial firms too the guys that got walked out for trying to slam the interns or admins or making fun of the Indians those guys fucked themselves out of massive (careers) and never regained anything close to what they had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keirik Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 From CNN Six days before the Coyotes made the decision to renounce Mitchell, the hockey player, who attends the University of North Dakota, issued a statement through the team, which was sent to the Republic. It read: "I am extremely sorry about the bullying incident that occurred in 2016 while I was in eighth grade. I was young, immature and feel terrible about my actions." He continued, "At the time, I did not understand the gravity of my actions and how they can affect other people. I have issued an apology to the family for my behavior, completed cultural diversity and sensitivity training and volunteered within my community with organizations such as Little Miracles. Over the past four years, I have had a lot of time to reflect and grow and I am very grateful to the Arizona Coyotes for taking a chance on me. I promise not to let them down. Moving forward, I want to be a leader for this cause and help end bullying and racism." CNN has attempted to reach Miller through the University of North Dakota. Isaiah Meyer-Crothers' mother told the Republic that Miller has never apologized directly to her son, outside of a letter mandated by the juvenile court. https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/29/us/coyotes-mitchell-miller-trnd/index.html So it seems like an apology was issued but the family wasn?t satisfied. Who knows. I, sorry but the more I read about this and the more inconsistencies in some things, the family just doesn?t want Miller successful at all. It?s their right and what happened to their son or horrible but something tells me there definitely is some cancel culture going on once they realized oh crap this kid might be someone. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 all good we just disagree. I would call it karma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlairBettsBlocksEverything Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 The same people who invented cancel culture are the same ones that started handing out participation trophies. There?s too many cunts out there. the older generation handed those out to their kids and then complained that their kids got participation trohpies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlairBettsBlocksEverything Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 Guess Im jumping into this thread late so feel free to correct me if anything i say has been raised/debunked or whatever, I'm just going off of my understanding of the story so far From what I've seen of this story, Miller continued to threaten, stalk and intimidate the victim for a couple of years after (skating in front of his house and such) which only ended qwhen he left to go play Juniors never issued a formal apology to the victim/his family, only to NHL teams IDK, i get wanting to say not to hold people's teenage mistakes against them, but this isn't a one time mistake of accidentally going overboard, this is some long term, sociopath shit. Yes, as kids we all do stupid shit. But as kids none of us (I hope) threw racist taunts at a disabled kid and beat his head into walls and made him eat your piss. like seriously, this is beyond teenage rebellion that we just overlook. This isn't in any way shape or form normal behavior I dont know the whole situation, but those sensitivity classes seem like the kind of thing that gets court-ordered. Should we always hold people's teenage mistakes against them? no. I do wish there was the same energy for forgiving young black teens for minor crimes as there was for a racist bully though 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 Guess Im jumping into this thread late so feel free to correct me if anything i say has been raised/debunked or whatever, I'm just going off of my understanding of the story so far From what I've seen of this story, Miller continued to threaten, stalk and intimidate the victim for a couple of years after (skating in front of his house and such) which only ended qwhen he left to go play Juniors never issued a formal apology to the victim/his family, only to NHL teams IDK, i get wanting to say not to hold people's teenage mistakes against them, but this isn't a one time mistake of accidentally going overboard, this is some long term, sociopath shit. Yes, as kids we all do stupid shit. But as kids none of us (I hope) threw racist taunts at a disabled kid and beat his head into walls and made him eat your piss. like seriously, this is beyond teenage rebellion that we just overlook. This isn't in any way shape or form normal behavior I dont know the whole situation, but those sensitivity classes seem like the kind of thing that gets court-ordered. Should we always hold people's teenage mistakes against them? no. I do wish there was the same energy for forgiving young black teens for minor crimes as there was for a racist bully though Awesome how we've already diagnosed this kid as a sociopath. Like I said earlier, Ray Lewis was at minimum an accomplice to murder and no one took his livelihood away...so can we not bring race into every single conversation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 Awesome how we've already diagnosed this kid as a sociopath. Like I said earlier, Ray Lewis was at minimum an accomplice to murder and no one took his livelihood away...so can we not bring race into every single conversation? Is there a bigger POS turn the other way league especially when it comes to stars than the NFL? I mean if you weren't in jail you were good to go, no even more so back in those days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonybologna Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 Is there a bigger POS turn the other way league especially when it comes to stars than the NFL? I mean if you weren't in jail you were good to go, no even more so back in those days? I mean, Dany Heatley got a teammate killed and got to come back to the NHL while on probation for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodrigueGabriel Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 The one thing noticeably absent from that letter - and tbh this conversation - is Isaiah Meyer-Crothers. What was the damage to him? Does he even have the option of not having this follow him through life? Because shit like this does. It's all about poor Mitchell and what he shouldn't have to drag around. Isaiah almost certainly has no choice in the matter. The older brother of a friend of mine was abused by a predator in high school. He was a bright, cheerful kid. The abuse - and the fear and the shame that went along with it - damaged him severely and basically ruined his life. Shit like this often doesn't come with a way out the other side. There is a vague reference in the letter to now understanding the effects of his actions on other people. But taking responsibility for what happened to that specific kid - and the long term effects of the abuse - seems to be an abstract concept. It's all anonymous and general when the pain and terror of having had to go to school every day for years on end to face a tormentor is likely real and personal for that kid every day now and in the future. If I read that letter, I would think that Miller exercised horrific judgement at one point on a single day at age 13. Isaiah's mom said the bullying and abuse began in 2nd grade. The act that got the attention of the legal system wasn't until 8th grade. She also said acts of abuse occurred as late as 2 years ago - roughly three years after his brush with the law. So that is 9 years of cruel, racist, sociopathic treatment of Isaiah. Poor Mitchell. I don't necessarily believe that he should never play hockey again as punishment, or the that the Yotes or UND should have just washed their hands of him. In a good world, this would be an opportunity to bring all the parties together and figure out what he needs to demonstrate or learn that would get him free of this. It is not at at all clear that playing hockey is his future, but it could be. Is it just providing a credible apology to Isaiah that genuinely owns up to what he did? Is it some schooling in the long term effects of bullying, particularly in the context of intellectual disabilities? At some level he needs to at least be able to convince people that he is sincerely remorseful, which he now apparently cannot pull off. Some expert ought to be able to figure this out. But this could be the best outcome for Miller if he grabs the opportunity to learn what he apparently did not learn from the earlier discipline and court process. The more I read about this whole sad scene, the more I cannot fathom what went on in his household that would breed and then tolerate actions like this over that period of time. But when you wail for all that Miller has lost and shake your fist at cancel culture, don't lose sight of what Isaiah will have following him through life. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoMinutesForNothing Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 Honestly I wish we could pick this kid up, he's obviously a very talented player. If the Coyotes were going to do this they never should have drafted him. He was 13 and 13 year olds don't reach that way of thinking on their own, it's a product of their environment and it's put there by the people around them. He was a child and any team considering him should have been saying to themselves "well he clearly had a bad environment, but we're confident in the strength and integrity of our organization to provide a better environment for a talented hockey player to grow, mature, and learn." If they believed he was willing to change or atone for his past that is. The Coyotes doing this just shows what they really think of themselves and the strength of their organization. Very weak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 Honestly I wish we could pick this kid up, he's obviously a very talented player. If the Coyotes were going to do this they never should have drafted him. He was 13 and 13 year olds don't reach that way of thinking on their own, it's a product of their environment and it's put there by the people around them. He was a child and any team considering him should have been saying to themselves "well he clearly had a bad environment, but we're confident in the strength and integrity of our organization to provide a better environment for a talented hockey player to grow, mature, and learn." If they believed he was willing to change or atone for his past that is. The Coyotes doing this just shows what they really think of themselves and the strength of their organization. Very weak. You blamed everyone except him. Fuck outta here 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 I’m not suggesting this kid get canceled, because clearly the mother of the other kid is a spiteful rat, which I can’t condone no matter what the situation is. If you have a problem, handle your business yourself or stfu. However, kids, teens, young adults, mature adults, all need to take accountability for their actions and not fuckin blame others or blame it on something. If you did it, you did it, right or wrong it doesn’t matter. Your actions have consequences, man up, respect it, take your punishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlairBettsBlocksEverything Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 Awesome how we've already diagnosed this kid as a sociopath. Like I said earlier, Ray Lewis was at minimum an accomplice to murder and no one took his livelihood away...so can we not bring race into every single conversation? They should have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 They should have Oh, I agree. Was just rebutting the "same energy for forgiving young black teens" comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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