Friedman Coyotes Renounce Rights to Controversial Draft Pick, Mitchell Miller

[Niko]

Also, what world is this where I have the same opinion as Pete?!?

[NySPORTS]

While there is a lot here I disagree with.... What does it matter "how disabled" the kid is? also the mother is a foster mother, she did not adopt 57 children so that's a bit of misinformation in your post...

 

What I will say is that I do agree in sentiment that we cannot deny for the rest of someone's lives their ability to make a livelihood based on teenage bullying. Let's say Miller was a lawyer and not an NHL prospect... Are they going to write letters to every law firm begging them not to hire Miller?

 

I don't know what I'd do in the moment if someone bullied my kid in this way, but I do know that after a couple of years I doubt I'd be tracking this kids whereabouts and making sure he doesn't get job offers.

 

If Miller is still a bullying racist, the Yotes would have found this out sooner than later. By all accounts he was a model citizen in the USHL and college.

 

The point i’m trying to make is the article likely doesn’t have all the facts. You mentioned “what does it matter “how disabled” the kid is. Well, what does “developmentally disabled” mean? Is that a cognitive issue in which Miller may have apologized and the kid can’t remember or is he in a wheel chair and is cognitively certain Miller never apologized? Would be nice to know.

 

Thanks for clarifying the foster mother of 57 kids over the years. That number is a lot to get my head around as i have issue with 100% clarity with everything going on with my three kids.

 

My point is also, when does this end? What is it the victim wants? Is it only the Mother who wants something? What is it? When does it end? None of that is in the article so does the article tell the whole story? Have we crossed the line in which Miller is being bullied or the victim or does that happen quietly and out of the spotlight when he applies for a job outside of hockey?

 

The whole things is sad and a sensitive topic. But it’s out there so . . . .

 

Cheers

[Phil]

You lead with "no", but then say exactly what I said in terms of how the events of drafting him went down LOL.

 

Who's the market? Fans or NHL FOs? The market for him is NHL FOs. And one FO decided to draft him.

 

Miller is the product. The NHL is the employer. The audience is the audience. The audience rejected him after the employer(s) did.

 

The more I think about this, the more I think the Yotes are just huge pussies. They could have easily come out and said "We believe everyone deserves a second chance, so we're keeping him, and we're going to put him on a path to Allyship. We're going to put him into therapy and sensitivity training. If we're not satisfied with his progress, he'll never play here. There's a different way to combat racsim, created allies."

 

They took the easy way out.

 

They tried. It was laughed off by the audience, because it was followed by reports that his abusive behavior continued after his conviction, and he never apologized to the family, but did to all 31 teams (insufficiently, according to about a dozen of them) when the time came to try and capitalize on it.

[Phil]

UND President Andrew Armacost announced in a letter to campus Friday morning that Mitchell Miller is no longer a part of the UND hockey team.

 

His letter stated:

 

"Dear UND Campus Community,

 

I have been closely monitoring the situation concerning Men?s Hockey student-athlete Mitchell Miller, who was involved in a situation as a youth in 2016. We expect our students to live by our values in the classroom, in the community and when representing the University on the field of play.

 

After much consideration and discussions with Mitchell, the Miller family, our Athletics Director, Bill Chaves, and Coach Brad Berry, I have decided that the best course of action for Mitchell and the University is that he no longer be a member of the UND Men?s Hockey program. Mitchell may remain a student at UND and we will continue to support his future intellectual and interpersonal growth.

 

We wish Mitchell well in whatever path he chooses in his future endeavors.

 

Lastly, I want to thank Coach Berry and Athletics Director Chaves for working with me as we navigated this difficult decision together, and for working with Mitchell and his family.

 

Sincerely,

 

Andrew Armacost, president

 

The decision comes one day after the Arizona Coyotes renounced his rights as a fourth-round draft pick.

 

https://www.grandforksherald.com/sports/hockey/6740945-Mitchell-Miller-no-longer-a-part-of-UND-hockey-team

[Keirik]

No, that's not what happened. One team in the market wanted to give him a chance. And then decided that it wasn't worth the PR nightmare associated with it, not "for whatever reason". That's the epitome of what's wrong with cancel culture.

And we can easily make the connection that the 10 or so teams that took him off their board is more so because they didn’t want to deal with a PR problem rather than an idea that they felt he wasn’t remorseful. Who knows. Regardless one team in the 4th round felt the kid had moved past what happened when he was younger.

 

Also the mother never sent the letter until after he was drafted and in the Athletic article it says Miller was ordered to stay away from Isaiah which could explain why no letter was sent. If he legit was ordered like stay away order, sending him specifically something violates that. It mentions his rollerblading past his house but that’s not remotely the same as actually sending something directly to the house.

 

Not trying to make any excuses for the kid but I just don’t think his potential livelihood should be taken away because of this. If we give mature professional athletes who are already millionaires second chances for crimes, why are we not to so,some that did things as a juvenile and paid his dues?

[Pete]

Miller is the product. The NHL is the employer. The audience is the audience. The audience rejected him after the employer(s) did.

Why are you focusing on the team's who didn't draft him, instead of the one who did?

 

 

 

They tried. It was laughed off by the audience, because it was followed by reports that his abusive behavior continued after his conviction, and he never apologized to the family, but did to all 31 teams (insufficiently, according to about a dozen of them) when the time came to try and capitalize on it.

 

They said nothing like what I just posted. Not that I can find.

[Pete]

And we can easily make the connection that the 10 or so teams that took him off their board is more so because they didn’t want to deal with a PR problem rather than an idea that they felt he wasn’t remorseful. Who knows. Regardless one team in the 4th round felt the kid had moved past what happened when he was younger.

 

Also the mother never sent the letter until after he was drafted and in the Athletic article it says Miller was ordered to stay away from Isaiah which could explain why no letter was sent. If he legit was ordered like stay away order, sending him specifically something violates that. It mentions his rollerblading past his house but that’s not remotely the same as actually sending something directly to the house.

 

Not trying to make any excuses for the kid but I just don’t think his potential livelihood should be taken away because of this. If we give mature professional athletes who are already millionaires second chances for crimes, why are we not to so,some that did things as a juvenile and paid his dues?

 

To the 2 bolded things, yes, agree.

 

That's my thing. I am not at all convinced that he was on DND lists because NHL FOs find what he dis soooooooo heinous. More like they didn't want the headache the Yotes are in right now.

[Phil]

Why are you focusing on the team's who didn't draft him, instead of the one who did?

 

Because they are also part of the market who could have, and passed. The one who did draft him ultimately rescinded, but the point remains — his options were limited from the onset. The market did their due diligence in interviewing him to see if he'd grown, many were left unconvinced, and thus adjusted.

 

They said nothing like what I just posted. Not that I can find.

 

“Prior to selecting Mitchell in the N.H.L. draft, we were aware that a bullying incident took place in 2016,” Xavier Gutierrez, the Coyotes’ president and chief executive, said in a statement on Thursday. “We do not condone this type of behavior but embraced this as a teachable moment to work with Mitchell to make him accountable for his actions and provide him with an opportunity to be a leader on anti-bullying and antiracism efforts.”

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/29/sports/hockey/coyotes-renounce-rights-to-mitchell-miller.html

[Pete]

https://www.grandforksherald.com/sports/hockey/6740945-Mitchell-Miller-no-longer-a-part-of-UND-hockey-team

 

Now this is some bullshit.

 

UND knew about all of this and NOW they kick him off? Come on.

 

To be clear, I'm not defending this kid or what he did. I'm calling out the Yotes and UND for the fucking cow-towing and walk-backs. Again, it's not like they're having an epiphany and realizing an egregious mistake. They just don't want bad press.

[Pete]

Because they are also part of the market who could have, and passed. The one who did draft him ultimately rescinded, but the point remains — his options were limited from the onset. The market did their due diligence in interviewing him to see if he'd grown, many were left unconvinced, and thus adjusted.

Well, that's accurate however completely irrelevant to this conversation.

 

 

“Prior to selecting Mitchell in the N.H.L. draft, we were aware that a bullying incident took place in 2016,” Xavier Gutierrez, the Coyotes’ president and chief executive, said in a statement on Thursday. “We do not condone this type of behavior but embraced this as a teachable moment to work with Mitchell to make him accountable for his actions and provide him with an opportunity to be a leader on anti-bullying and antiracism efforts.”

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/29/sports/hockey/coyotes-renounce-rights-to-mitchell-miller.html

OK, that's not anything close to what I said, so yea...Not good enough. It doesn't put the onus back on the mob to say "Hey, we don't fuckin cancel people who make mistakes as teens. You wouldn't want it done to you, and we're not going to do it either."

[Phil]

Well, that's accurate however completely irrelevant to this conversation.

 

OK, that's not anything close to what I said, so yea...Not good enough. It doesn't put the onus back on the mob to say "Hey, we don't fuckin cancel people who make mistakes as teens. You wouldn't want it done to you, and we're not going to do it either."

 

You said:

 

The more I think about this, the more I think the Yotes are just huge pussies. They could have easily come out and said "We believe everyone deserves a second chance, so we're keeping him, and we're going to put him on a path to Allyship. We're going to put him into therapy and sensitivity training. If we're not satisfied with his progress, he'll never play here. There's a different way to combat racsim, created allies."

 

They took the easy way out.

 

They literally tried to embrace the moment as a "teachable" one to make him accountable and "provide him with an opportunity to be a leader on anti-bullying and antiracism efforts."

 

How are these "not anything close" to what you said?

 

They attempted to spin his story into a redemption arc. The audience laughed it off, because as they said that, more information came out that he continued his behavior after his conviction, straining credulity that he'd actually learned a fucking thing, and the victim's mother then noted he never even apologized to his victim. That he couldn't do this in person isn't relevant. There's a thousand ways to say you're sorry. A public statement, a tweet, anything. Something, other than unconvincingly "apologizing" to potential employers when it's strategically convenient for you.

[Pete]

You said:

 

 

 

They literally tried to embrace the moment as a "teachable" one to make him accountable and "provide him with an opportunity to be a leader on anti-bullying and antiracism efforts."

 

How are these "not anything close" to what you said?

 

"There's a different way to combat racsim, created allies." = put the onus back on the mob to say "Hey, we don't fuckin cancel people who make mistakes as teens. You wouldn't want it done to you, and we're not going to do it either."

[Phil]

I'd have been on board with that, too. You know I don't support cancel culture. You know I support redemption stories. I just don't think this is actually cancel culture. I think it's the market reacting to a product that seems, at least on paper from what we know, to be unrepentant.

 

There's still a glorious opportunity for him here to work on this to rehabilitate his image and reclaim a career.

[Keirik]

I’m confused though why this is happening now of all times? Didn’t Miller play in the USHL for the last two years in different states? Why did the mom wait for him to be drafted ? She said the bullying continued two years after but never really provided proof or seemed to say much specifically unless I’m missing that part ?

 

The whole thing seems kind of weird. What happened was horrible. No one condones it but to me this sure does feel more like cancelling rather than anything else.

[Pete]

I'd have been on board with that, too. You know I don't support cancel culture. You know I support redemption stories. I just don't think this is actually cancel culture. I think it's the market reacting to a product that seems, at least on paper from what we know, to be unrepentant.

 

There's still a glorious opportunity for him here to work on this to rehabilitate his image and reclaim a career.

 

I’m confused though why this is happening now of all times? Didn’t Miller play in the USHL for the last two years in different states? Why did the mom wait for him to be drafted ? She said the bullying continued two years after but never really provided proof or seemed to say much specifically unless I’m missing that part ?

 

The whole thing seems kind of weird. What happened was horrible. No one condones it but to me this sure does feel more like cancelling rather than anything else.

 

Cancel culture = when the mob forces the industry to decide.

[Phil]

The "mob" always forces the industry to decide. Audiences react. It's built into the transactional relationship between product and buyer.

 

It's just louder and faster now than it used to be because of social media.

[NySPORTS]

"There's a different way to combat racsim, created allies." = put the onus back on the mob to say "Hey, we don't #$& cancel people who make mistakes as teens. You wouldn't want it done to you, and we're not going to do it either."

 

+1

[NySPORTS]

The "mob" always forces the industry to decide. Audiences react. It's built into the transactional relationship between product and buyer.

 

It's just louder and faster now than it used to be because of social media.

 

Only good thing which came out of Covid is it forced the Wilpons to decide :). The mob couldn’t budge them out. Meanwhile the Mayor lol. Good lord

 

Cheers

[Puck Head]

Now this is some bullshit.

 

UND knew about all of this and NOW they kick him off? Come on.

 

To be clear, I'm not defending this kid or what he did. I'm calling out the Yotes and UND for the fucking cow-towing and walk-backs. Again, it's not like they're having an epiphany and realizing an egregious mistake. They just don't want bad press.

 

Agree here.

UND is dropping the ball on this one.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk

[Scott]

The kid has become even more toxic than before which is more than UND is willing to take on. More than they signed up for, it's their call to make and they made it.

 

I also for the life of me can not see any scenario where this kid was not permitted to apologize. I mean holy sh!t he could of done it through his attorneys if they felt he should not contact the family directly. He from all accounts chose not to show remorse and now he's going to pay the price. To me it's way more about what he hasn't done since the act(s) themselves.

 

From and NHL teams perspective, I'm not sure why in the world you you take this on for a 4th round pick who's odds of playing 150 NHL games is I believe somewhere at 15% at best. It would seem to certainly not be worth the risk of it blowing up in your face which it certainly has here.

[Dunny]

This has shown me that I better get a handle on my 4 yo's Tik Tok account.

[The Dude]

Amazing. The transgressions of a fourteen year old will redirect the outcome of this young man's life. Is the Criminal Justice system not about reforming and redirecting individuals to become contributing societal members?

 

His talent should be pushed aside and ignored because he made a poor peer pressured choice as a young teen? You guys are tough.

 

I'm all for second chances and supporting positive change in people.

 

Is this the new normal? Make a mistake and lest it never be forgiven and forgotten but instead let you never live it down. Im out.

 

This. But this seems to be a one way street. People riot, protest and make martyrs out of people who have done much worse. But an 8th grade white kid was a piece of shit? Never forgive him. Ruin his life and his families.

[The Dude]

You think these kids don?t see what goes on every day and understand the consequences of their actions? They 100% do and they understand it a lot better than we did, that?s what makes something like this worse.

 

I don't think kids DO understand the consequences of their actions today more so than ever. See Antifa and their makeup of teens who have zero problem destroying people and their property. See how violent kids are these days. They think they are protected by their age and their parents..

 

So to do a complete about face.. Yeah, fuck this kid.

[Mike]

The same people who invented cancel culture are the same ones that started handing out participation trophies. There’s too many cunts out there.

[Mike]

I don't think kids DO understand the consequences of their actions today more so than ever. See Antifa and their makeup of teens who have zero problem destroying people and their property. See how violent kids are these days. They think they are protected by their age and their parents..

 

So to do a complete about face.. Yeah, fuck this kid.

 

Dude, kids see shit happening every fuckin day to other classmates, friends, etc. There is some kind of dumb shit happening on a daily basis in every school. Unfortunately for those kids, stupidity is not a defense.

 

The older teens/twenties that act that way in a group with the belief they have plenty of people backing them up and their “rights”. Everyone is a gansta until it’s time to take matters into your own hands individually. There’s also a difference between understanding and not giving a fuck what the consequences are. I’m one of the dumb ones who usually chooses the latter.