Dunny Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 Leetch won a cup early in his career on the backs of an old Edmonton dynasty and then never got close to that level again, playing on some of the worst rangers teams in modern history. So tell me why that makes him better than a guy who literally willed a franchise for 10 years? lol. Why did you bump this, Phil? 34 points in 23 games as a D man. They were on his back. Litteraly won the Norris three years later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted August 21, 2021 Author Share Posted August 21, 2021 Lundqvist: Vezina x1 Leetch: Calder, Stanley Cup, Conn Smythe, Norris x2. Leetch: more awards. Lundkvist: means more to fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunny Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 Leetch: more awards. Lundkvist: means more to fans. More to recent fans, sure, but recency bias doesn't cloud my judgment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 The fact a goalie with 1 Vezina and no Cups is even in the conversation for greatest Ranger ever shows how loser of a franchise we've been stuck with all our lives. With that said, we are a loser franchise, and he's 2nd best to Leetch. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunny Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 You can make a pretty good argument that the NYR are the worst franchise in the history if the NHL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 Why, did Brian Leetch stop existing, or something?Can't you just let me have this today LOL? Also, Leetch played on so many good teams. Hank was the reason so many teams that had no business being good, were good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albatrosss Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 Arent we suckers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 You can make a pretty good argument that the NYR are the worst franchise in the history if the NHL. That might very well be true. I'll always hold out hope though. There was a time the Red Sox were neck and neck with like the Cubs for worst franchise in the history of the MLB. They've re-written that script considerably in the last 2 decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 You can make a pretty good argument that the NYR are the worst franchise in the history if the NHL.I can make an argument that you're the worst poster in the history of this forum. But I don't, cuz it's Friday night and we have rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keirik Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 Leetch, and it isn’t even remotely close 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 Leetch, and it isn’t even remotely close Masterful cropping out of the 10 Cup winners on the team with him in the background. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 To be fair though, it's much, much harder to be the X-Factor that carries a team when you're a defenseman. I'd argue the nature of the position of goaltending lends itself to a GOAT argument. When you compare resumes, however, and discount the idea of carrying a team, I think it's Leetch for me by a pretty wide margin. Make no mistake, the Cup thing matters. Like, A LOT. It will forever be the blemish on Henrik's otherwise sterling career. It's not the be-all end-all of the debate, but it skews it heavily for me. RangersIn7's point about Richter's signature moments kind of makes the point aptly. Where was the Pavel Bure penalty shot stop? The robbing the Devils of a goal mere seconds before "MATTEAU MATTEAU!!!" Henrik made some big saves in the playoffs, but he also made some big whiffs. That game winning goal against Tampa in Game 7 of the ECFs in 2015 was atrocious. It was a softy from center ice. Granted, the team sucked that whole game and laid a massive egg on home ice. But Ben Bishop didn't make those mistakes. In fact, I would argue that in every playoff series we lost, it was heavily due in part to Henrik being outplayed by the other team's goalie. The Rangers turned scrubs into world-beaters (and we still do), but I can't remember a time we needed that huge save from Henrik in the playoffs and actually got it. Maybe there is actually no factual basis for this claim, and my opinion is more than likely tarnished from the past few years of the shell of Henrik in net, but for me, he was never a "big game" goalie. When it mattered most, he couldn't get it done. Agreed. Not his fault he broke his ankle in 1993 and the team collapsed. Or Richter gave up a 60 foot floater vs. the Pens in 1992. Or Neil Smith sent Messier packing and then did not expect the Avs to match the Sakic contract. If you are going to give Lundqvist a break for the rest of the team sucking, think you have to concede those things with Leetch. Leetch won the COn Smythe in 1994 playing on a broken ankle they froze before each game. Leetch is arguably one of the best defenseman of his era, and with Chelios one of the 2 best Amercian defensemen in NHL history. Richter had a run from the 1994 playoffs through the Wolrd CUp in 1995 that was tremendous. And otherwise was pretty good, but he was never as good as Lundqvist for nearly as long. None of that is a knock on Ludqvist. He was one of the best ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 Masterful cropping out of the 10 Cup winners on the team with him in the background. ;) 11 goals and 23 assists on a broken ankle. Think he more than earned that trophy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keirik Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 Masterful cropping out of the 10 Cup winners on the team with him in the background. ;) Did all ten win the conn Smythe that year? :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangersIn7 Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 It’s Leetch. Hank is right there on the short list. But it’s Leetch. And that doesn’t diminish Hank in any way IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keirik Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 There's nothing wrong with being the second best of all time. It's close. They are both equally as important to the franchise. Just one won a cup and Conn Smythe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 There's nothing wrong with being the second best of all time. It's close. They are both equally as important to the franchise. Just one won a cup and Conn Smythe.Leetch played on so many good teams. Hank was the reason so many teams that had no business being good, were good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 11 goals and 23 assists on a broken ankle. Think he more than earned that trophy.Since when did he have a broken ankle in 1994? I also don't think I said he didn't earn that trophy. Can you point to that post? What I said was he played on great teams, and he did. You can make an argument that he wouldn't have won anything without Messier, and you can also make an argument that the Rangers wouldn't have done anything without Lundqvist. You can also make an argument that he would have a cup if it wasn't for the rest of the team not being able to score a goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 Since when did he have a broken ankle in 1994? I also don't think I said he didn't earn that trophy. Can you point to that post? What I said was he played on great teams, and he did. You can make an argument that he wouldn't have won anything without Messier, and you can also make an argument that the Rangers wouldn't have done anything without Lundqvist. You can also make an argument that he would have a cup if it wasn't for the rest of the team not being able to score a goal. Shoulder... 1994 Stanley Cup Final – Despite an injured shoulder that he had to freeze to continue to play with, Brian Leetch won the Conn Smythe Trophy for the New York Rangers. Leetch led the Rangers in scoring for the playoffs with 34 points in 23 games. Only one defenseman has led the playoffs in scoring since Leetch did it in 1994 and that was Scott Niedermayer in 2003. One of his finest moments came during Game 4 of the Final when he setup Alexei Kovalev for the game winning goal and couldn’t even lift his arm to celebrate. There have been indications that Leetch’s injured shoulder remains a problem. He has acknowledged the difficulty of harnessing his emotions throughout the first finals of his career. Controlling those emotions will not be any easier on Tuesday night. “If you heard this at the beginning of the year, that we had one game to win at home in the Stanley Cup finals, we’d take it,” Leetch said. (New York Times, 1994) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 Oh yea, shoulder I knew. Not an ankle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 Can't you just let me have this today LOL? Also, Leetch played on so many good teams. Hank was the reason so many teams that had no business being good, were good. I can make an argument that you're the worst poster in the history of this forum. But I don't, cuz it's Friday night and we have rules. Leetch played on so many good teams. Hank was the reason so many teams that had no business being good, were good. Ok Pete, I'll give you this one!! LOL I gotta go with Leetch, but your point is in stone, my man!! Hank made those teams, and carried those teams for the most part! :thumbs: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albatrosss Posted August 22, 2021 Share Posted August 22, 2021 Hank didn’t carry them far enough. If he did, he would’ve been the GROAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keirik Posted August 22, 2021 Share Posted August 22, 2021 Hank didn’t carry them far enough. If he did, he would’ve been the GROAT I will say this. There is only one other guy I feel as bad for never winning and that’s Don Mattingly. Loved that dude. Henrik eclipsed him in terms of accomplishments and importance to his franchise but both guys are the two NY figures that deserved better outcomes here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted August 22, 2021 Share Posted August 22, 2021 Hank didn’t carry them far enough. If he did, he would’ve been the GROATYea, if only he could just score a few more goals... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodka Drunkenski Posted August 22, 2021 Share Posted August 22, 2021 To be fair, the team gave him quite a few of leads in the Finals, some multiple goals, games 1 and 2 come to mind. With that said, it’s between him and Leetch for greatest all time Ranger and it’s definitely a tough debate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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