Ozzy Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 Why? Nothing he's shown us thus far suggests that. He's OK at the dot and is generally well-liked by his teammates. That makes not a good, reliable hockey player. More like a poor man's Zenon Konopka. Quinn and JD believe in this kid for some strange reason. Those guys are pretty good hockey guys in my estimation....especially JD. I'm going to trust them on this one....at least for one more year. I know, I didn't see much in him so far, but I'm gonna just go with blind instinct on this one. I don't think it's gonna be any skin off our ass to let him ride for one more year. God knows we couldn't get shit for him in return, right? So what the hell....roll the dice and let's see what gives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted August 20, 2020 Author Share Posted August 20, 2020 Fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 His ELC runs out after next season anyway...so fuck it...if he shits the bed....we trade him for a stick rack! ...if we could even get THAT!! LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 Not to be the devil's advocate here, but isn't a Manny Malhotra precisely what this team actually needs right now? Guy who never costs you anything on the ice, maybe doesn't create much, but plays super-sound defense, kills penalties, wins draws.... If Howden becomes Malhotra, we're in business. Just feels like a real longshot right now. Malhotra was 18, a top pick and a 2-way player. His offense didnt develop, so he was able to rely on his defensive game to create an NHL career. Howden played on the 4th line. That's the extent of the comparison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainMorganBarron Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 https://www.foreverblueshirts.com/tony-deangelo-takes-exception-to-criticism-of-brett-howden/ Tony DeAngelo @TonyDee07 He’s become the focus of criticism because people have zero idea what they are talking about. He’s a young, talented hardworking player that is liked by everyone in the organization. Plays hard, both ends of ice and is SO young still. Take Brett Howden everyday of the week! Quote Tweet Vince Z. Mercogliano @vzmercogliano ? Aug 19 The NY Rangers feel strongly that Brett Howden took a step forward during the restart, but what does that mean going into 2020-21? And why has he become a focus of criticism for some fans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keirik Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 Nice praise by a soon to be former teammate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainMorganBarron Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 Nice praise by a soon to be former teammate? Trouba did not praise him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodka Drunkenski Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 Trouba did not praise him. Dude just give it up already Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gravesy Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 I think I’m going to side with analytics over Tony D’s eye test on this one, if it’s all the same to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sod16 Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 The expectations for Malholtra, a very high pick, were far higher than they have ever been for Howden. Heck, as a rookie, they had him playing with Gretzky for a while. A long career as a defensively solid 4th liner was a big disappointment for him. If Howden turns out as far below his expectations as Malholtra did, in relative terms, he'll be in the ECHL. However, the sum on Howden is just play him, because we don't have anyone better at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 I mean, that's fine, but youth isn't a skill. I'm not sure, given all we've seen from him that something dramatic is going to change. He's played nearly 150 NHL games. By 200 games, I think it's pretty fair to say you are who you are. Tell that to Mika Zibanejad. Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangersIn7 Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 Tell that to Mika Zibanejad. Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Agreed. When you’re talking about guys who enter the league young, the development curve has as much to do with age and the maturation process there as it does with the number of games played We’ve seen it many times with guys who enter the league at 18-20 It takes 5-7 seasons for them to fully mature and reach a peek. Before his first really impressive season in 18-19, Zibanejad had 400 games behind him and was 24-25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew a Penalty Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 Tell that to Mika Zibanejad. Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk There's no comparison there. Zibanejad despite taking time to grow and achieve higher levels of production was still a quality contributor. His advanced stats in his early years with Ottawa consistently improved and were among the best on his team. Howden, on the other hand, has been consistently one of the worst on the Rangers in both of his seasons with regression in both boxcar and advanced stats. Howden even fails the eye-test. All he offers is hustle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodrigueGabriel Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 Sink or swim year for Howden. With some cap space and more flexibility to retool the 4th line next summer, "he's all we have" and "he's a great guy" won't cut it anymore. I have rooted for him to succeed, but even I'm pretty low on faith by now. Sent from my SM-G970U using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted August 20, 2020 Author Share Posted August 20, 2020 Tell that to Mika Zibanejad. Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk I mean, there's always an outlier, but what I mean to say is that if by the 200 game mark there isn't some noticeable uptick in your game, or some aspect in which you've clearly begun carving out a role for yourself, it's kind of hard to keep faith that that will magically develop. It can happen, and does, clearly, but much more rarely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted August 20, 2020 Author Share Posted August 20, 2020 Agreed. When you’re talking about guys who enter the league young, the development curve has as much to do with age and the maturation process there as it does with the number of games played We’ve seen it many times with guys who enter the league at 18-20 It takes 5-7 seasons for them to fully mature and reach a peek. Before his first really impressive season in 18-19, Zibanejad had 400 games behind him and was 24-25 I'm not talking about peak. I'm talking about the rate of progress, and what you expect to see out of a player in order to justifiably believe there's more there there. Howden is at, what, 140-something games (I don't have the exact number off hand). Another season (82 games) puts him at that mark. That's basically two and a half seasons. That's a fair sample size for making that determination, especially for a team expected to be rounding the corner from development to contention. Contending teams don't have that kind of time. Through his first 200~ games, Zibanejad's P/GP steadily climbed. 2011-12 — 0.11 (nine games) 2012-13 — 0.48 (42 games) 2013-14 — 0.48 (69 games) 2014-15 — 0.58 (80 games) Howden, thus far, has fallen since his start. 2018-19 — 0.35 (66 games) 2019-20 — 0.27 (70 games) And he's shown none of the flashes rookie-level Zibanejad showed to believe there's more there there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangersIn7 Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 I'm not talking about peak. I'm talking about the rate of progress, and what you expect to see out of a player in order to justifiably believe there's more there there. Howden is at, what, 140-something games (I don't have the exact number off hand). Another season (82 games) puts him at that mark. That's basically two and a half seasons. That's a fair sample size for making that determination, especially for a team expected to be rounding the corner from development to contention. Contending teams don't have that kind of time. Sorry Misunderstood you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainMorganBarron Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 I'm not talking about peak. I'm talking about the rate of progress, and what you expect to see out of a player in order to justifiably believe there's more there there. Howden is at, what, 140-something games (I don't have the exact number off hand). Another season (82 games) puts him at that mark. That's basically two and a half seasons. That's a fair sample size for making that determination, especially for a team expected to be rounding the corner from development to contention. Contending teams don't have that kind of time. Through his first 200~ games, Zibanejad's P/GP steadily climbed. 2011-12 — 0.11 (nine games) 2012-13 — 0.48 (42 games) 2013-14 — 0.48 (69 games) 2014-15 — 0.58 (80 games) Howden, thus far, has fallen since his start. 2018-19 — 0.35 (66 games) 2019-20 — 0.27 (70 games) And he's shown none of the flashes rookie-level Zibanejad showed to believe there's more there there. Howden had 9 points in his first 14 games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted August 20, 2020 Author Share Posted August 20, 2020 Howden had 9 points in his first 14 games I'll take "Small Sample Size" for $200, Alex! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainMorganBarron Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 I'll take "Small Sample Size" for $200, Alex! lol Alex, I will take "200 games or bust" for $1,000. Name this player https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=63016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodka Drunkenski Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 Howden had 9 points in his first 14 games That actually helps prove Phil?s point. Don?t look how a rookie starts the season but how he progresses. The beginning of the season is an extended preseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted August 20, 2020 Author Share Posted August 20, 2020 lol Alex, I will take "200 games or bust" for $1,000. Name this player https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=63016 Yeah, I'm not making the connection... at all. Prucha scored 30 goals as a rookie. Howden scored like 30 points. What's your point, again? Something something something Bret Howden is team captain when the team fires Quinn and hires Laviolette because reasons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainMorganBarron Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 That actually helps prove Phil’s point. Don’t look how a rookie starts the season but how he progresses. The beginning of the season is an extended preseason. I just remembered that he had a very strong start before hitting a wall. Not sure what happened, maybe just got lucky or maybe lost his confidence after a good start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew a Penalty Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 Howden had 9 points in his first 14 games Vesey had 10 in his first 14. So? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainMorganBarron Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 Vesey had 10 in his first 14. So? good for Vesey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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