article: Mercogliano: The Curious Case of Brett Howden

[Drew a Penalty]

good for Vesey.

 

Oscar Lindberg had 11 in 14 too. That was some argument you made in favor of Howden, then.

[CaptainMorganBarron]

Oscar Lindberg had 11 in 14 too. That was some argument you made in favor of Howden, then.

 

very good chance the Kraken takes Howden if he doesn't have a breakout season..

[Drew a Penalty]

very good chance the Kraken takes Howden if he doesn't have a breakout season..

 

Nice non-sequitur. But good. Means I don’t have to suffer through watching him be mediocre.

[CaptainMorganBarron]

Nice non-sequitur. But good. Means I don’t have to suffer through watching him be mediocre.

 

You brought up Lindberg, who was also a center that was taken in the expansion draft and he also was going downhill production wise.

[Drew a Penalty]

You brought up Lindberg, who was also a center that was taken in the expansion draft and he also was going downhill production wise.

 

Yeah, and I brought him up because Howden having 9 points in his first 14 games meant nothing. Just like how it meant nothing for other garbage bin players like Vesey and Lindberg.

[CaptainMorganBarron]

Yeah, and I brought him up because Howden having 9 points in his first 14 games meant nothing. Just like how it meant nothing for other garbage bin players like Vesey and Lindberg.

 

I think in those 14 games that is when Quinn fell in love with Howden that is why he never was sent down to AHL.

[Drew a Penalty]

I think in those 14 games that is when Quinn fell in love with Howden that is why he never was sent down to AHL.

 

Could be. I think it's partly that there's also been no legitimate alternative. Nieves fell out of good graces and struggled with injuries. The rotating cast of JAGs like McKegg, Fogarty, PDG, etc. don't offer much better of an alternative.

 

Andersson was his biggest competition and lost a spot that was his to lose.

 

Of all of the shit to choose from, Howden has been the most appealing painful as that is to say. That doesn't make him a long-term solution.

[CaptainMorganBarron]

Could be. I think it's partly that there's also been no legitimate alternative. Nieves fell out of good graces and struggled with injuries. The rotating cast of JAGs like McKegg, Fogarty, PDG, etc. don't offer much better of an alternative.

 

Andersson was his biggest competition and lost a spot that was his to lose.

 

Of all of the shit to choose from, Howden has been the most appealing painful as that is to say. That doesn't make him a long-term solution.

 

Quinn's gamble might finally pay off if he has a breakout season, they desperately need that to not look like losers on the McDonagh/Miller trade.

[Drew a Penalty]

Quinn's gamble might finally pay off if he has a breakout season, they desperately need that to not look like losers on the McDonagh/Miller trade.

 

Howden would need to blossom into at least half of JT Miller for that to occur. I'd sooner bet on a new Tupac album.

[Pete]

I keep coming back to pretty smart hockey people talking up Howden. I don't think anyone has really answered that.

 

Are they just upping his value?

 

We need to look no further than Toronto to see failure by spreadsheet. Are people putting too much stock into stats?

[Drew a Penalty]

I keep coming back to pretty smart hockey people talking up Howden. I don't think anyone has really answered that.

 

Are they just upping his value?

 

We need to look no further than Toronto to see failure by spreadsheet. Are people putting too much stock into stats?

 

Hustle. Spunk. Lias was shittier.

 

If you wanna use eye-test as a counterpoint, what do you see?

[Pete]

Hustle. Spunk. Lias was shittier.

 

If you wanna use eye-test as a counterpoint, what do you see?

I haven't said anything about Howden. Don't make it about me.

 

I'm asking why people think that other hockey people who know way more about hockey than any of us defend Howden.

[Drew a Penalty]

I haven't said anything about Howden. Don't make it about me.

 

I'm asking why people think that other hockey people who know way more about hockey than any of us defend Howden.

 

I answered. So I asked your own question. If it's not stats, then it's eye-test. So what do you think they see? Is that an inappropriate question?

[Pete]

I answered. So I asked your own question. If it's not stats, then it's eye-test. So what do you think they see? Is that an inappropriate question?

Well, you didn't ask what I thought they saw. You asked what I saw. so you moving the goal post just a little bit, but I don't mind it.

 

As I said earlier, they are either upping his trade value, or they see a young player working hard every day in practice and on the ice in games, and that gets rewarded with ice time regardless of success.

 

In my mind, that's meritocracy. You will reward effort and work ethic before everything else, and that's probably a pretty important message to a young team.

[Drew a Penalty]

Well, you didn't ask what I thought they saw. You asked what I saw. so you moving the goal post just a little bit, but I don't mind it.

 

As I said earlier, they are either upping his trade value, or they see a young player working hard every day in practice and on the ice in games, and that gets rewarded with ice time regardless of success.

 

In my mind, that's meritocracy. You will reward effort and work ethic before everything else, and that's probably a pretty important message to a young team.

 

And I agree with that 100%. Like I said, hustle and spunk. Quinn wants his players to be good soldiers, his work with players like ADA, Buch, Chytil, and Kakko being examples. Howden, while deficient in skillset is a good soldier in Quinn's eyes. His effort is unquestionable. His results are.

[Pete]

And I agree with that 100%. Like I said, hustle and spunk. Quinn wants his players to be good soldiers, his work with players like ADA, Buch, Chytil, and Kakko being examples. Howden, while deficient in skillset is a good soldier in Quinn's eyes. His effort is unquestionable. His results are.

Gotcha. I thought you were referring to hustle and spunk as typical NHL buzzwords.

 

I actually think it's a great lesson for the young skilled players who come here to see that it's effort and drive that get rewarded, and not talent.

 

So we're on the same page.

[Drew a Penalty]

Gotcha. I thought you were referring to hustle and spunk as typical NHL buzzwords.

 

I actually think it's a great lesson for the young skilled players who come here to see that it's effort and drive that get rewarded, and not talent.

 

So we're on the same page.

 

Right. It's good for competition in the short-term. Howden probably isn't in jeopardy of losing his spot this season, but is likely the type of player you move on from with the flat cap when you have cheaper replacements in Barron, Richards, Kodorenko, etc. At the very least, it shows notable hard workers like Richards and Barron that their work will be appreciated if they stay the course.

[CaptainMorganBarron]

And I agree with that 100%. Like I said, hustle and spunk. Quinn wants his players to be good soldiers, his work with players like ADA, Buch, Chytil, and Kakko being examples. Howden, while deficient in skillset is a good soldier in Quinn's eyes. His effort is unquestionable. His results are.

 

Howden is pretty intelligent and has good attitude. Coaches like players that are easy to work with and communicate with.

[Gravesy]

Well, you didn't ask what I thought they saw. You asked what I saw. so you moving the goal post just a little bit, but I don't mind it.

 

As I said earlier, they are either upping his trade value, or they see a young player working hard every day in practice and on the ice in games, and that gets rewarded with ice time regardless of success.

 

In my mind, that's meritocracy. You will reward effort and work ethic before everything else, and that's probably a pretty important message to a young team.

 

Yeah, I think it's a lot to do with intangibles.

 

- Good kid

- Comes in every day and works hard to improve

- Coachable, in the sense that he does - or at least tries to do - what he's told

- Great character

- Works his hardest every single shift

- Etc

 

That, coupled with the fact the alternatives aren't considerably better probably works in his favor. Being part of the McD trade probably doesn't hurt, but tbf it hasn't helped Hajek much.

It's understandable, but at the same time it's hard to argue with the data. He's ineffective and in most categories a net negative.

I still maintain he'd benefit from a good stint in Hartford.

[josh]

Funny thing when people talk about Howden's pros, hockey is never mentioned.

[CaptainMorganBarron]

Funny thing when people talk about Howden's pros, hockey is never mentioned.

 

So if it is not mentioned it means automatically he sucks at hockey? Or it means it is about average?

[Pete]

Funny thing when people talk about Howden's pros, hockey is never mentioned.

The fact that he's in the NHL speaks for itself.

[Phil]

The fact that he's in the NHL speaks for itself.

 

No, it doesn't. Lots of guys are in the league who shouldn't be. By this logic, Jack Johnson is good. Zac Rinaldo is good.

[josh]

The fact that he's in the NHL speaks for itself.

 

Yeah, well, that's not good enough anymore.

[Pete]

No, it doesn't. Lots of guys are in the league who shouldn't be. By this logic, Jack Johnson is good. Zac Rinaldo is good.

 

I have no idea what you're talking about. No one said anything about if Howden is good or bad. That actually has nothing at all to do with the specific point I made to Josh which is if you are in the NHL, you had to have some success at lower level and therefore you can "play hockey". Playing it well is an entirely different discussion.

 

But you bring up a point, almost every team has these players.