article: Mercogliano: The Curious Case of Brett Howden

[Phil]

He's playing 13:00/game this season, 2:00 of that killing penalties. The issue isn't his production, which is OK for his role. It's that he doesn't provide anything additional. He's slightly under 50% on draws, he's not an overly physical player, he's only average defensively, doesn't gain or maintain the offensive zone overly well.

 

If he wants to stick in the NHL, he's going to have to improve. Can he? Who knows.

 

At the expense of the team's offensive attempts. He's a net negative, even when he's scoring, because it's immediately offset by the fact that when he's on the ice, it means the puck is in the Rangers end of the ice much more than it isn't.

 

what do you expect 50 points from 3rd/4th liner?

 

I expect competency. Not a one dimensional mediocre scorer who offers nothing else but being liked by his teammates.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk

[RangersIn7]

He’s at best a 4th line center

I have no problem with him being around and in that role for the time being and seeing if his game grows in the areas that are important for guys in that role.

 

But he shouldn’t be playing 13 minutes per night.

He should get 8-10 or so

 

And if he wants to be in that role longer term, he needs to become an asset in terms of his defensive play, PK, and faceoffs

[CaptainMorganBarron]

Howden might have a break out season this season coming up, I would wait and not rush to trade him unless some team really wants him.

[josh]

Howden might have a break out season this season coming up, I would wait and not rush to trade him unless some team really wants him.

 

His breakout ceiling is a below average 4th liner. Who gives a shit.

[ThirtyONE]

He's a 4th liner. I just simply can't care about him. He's replaceable. Or not. Whatever.

[CaptainMorganBarron]

His breakout ceiling is a below average 4th liner. Who gives a shit.

 

That is his floor.

[Pete]

Howden might have a break out season this season coming up, I would wait and not rush to trade him unless some team really wants him.

So your logic is we should trade the number one overall for a debatable package...but keep Howden unless we're blown away?

[RangersIn7]

So your logic is we should trade the number one overall for a debatable package...but keep Howden unless we're blown away?

 

Didn’t you just tell me to stop feeding the trolls, Pete?

[Sod16]

Forget the advanced stats; just trust your eyes. Your eyes tell you that Howden is not a net benefit. They tell you that whatever line he's on spends most of its time defending. They tell you that he's not a good finisher. They tell you that when he's at his best, he's holding his own. He's not worth this much debate, as the team is not going to rise or fall based on him, but sooner or later, we are going to have to develop some good bottom six players.

[Gravesy]

I feel like I hear people describe him as an ok/potentially ok bottom 6/4th line player all the time.

I just don't understand what it is people see that makes them believe that. He is demonstrably ineffective in that role. I think there's an ok player in there, but there is nothing be to suggest he's effective in a bottom 6 role at the NHL level right now, be it eye test or analytics.

You can't really say "the Rangers need to sort out their bottom 6" only to turn around and say "Howden is fine on the 4th line". Those two statements do not align.

[RangersIn7]

I feel like I hear people describe him as an ok/potentially ok bottom 6/4th line player all the time.

I just don't understand what it is people see that makes them believe that. He is demonstrably ineffective in that role. I think there's an ok player in there, but there is nothing be to suggest he's effective in a bottom 6 role at the NHL right now, be it eye test or analytics.

You can't really say "the Rangers need to sort out their bottom 6" only to turn around and say "Howden is fine on the 4th line". Those two statements do not align.

 

All true.

 

As I said, I’m ok with him there for right now.

But in the next year, if his game doesn’t grow in some areas, you find a replacement

[Vodka Drunkenski]

I was hoping he would develop into some version of Boyle, haven?t seen it though.

[josh]

That is his floor.

 

No, because the last 2 seasons he's been the worst player in the league. So no, that's not his floor.

[Ozzy]

Right, that's Malholtra, the yawn.

 

He’s at best a 4th line center

I have no problem with him being around and in that role for the time being and seeing if his game grows in the areas that are important for guys in that role.

 

But he shouldn’t be playing 13 minutes per night.

He should get 8-10 or so

 

And if he wants to be in that role longer term, he needs to become an asset in terms of his defensive play, PK, and faceoffs

 

He's a 4th liner. I just simply can't care about him. He's replaceable. Or not. Whatever.

 

I feel like I hear people describe him as an ok/potentially ok bottom 6/4th line player all the time.

I just don't understand what it is people see that makes them believe that. He is demonstrably ineffective in that role. I think there's an ok player in there, but there is nothing be to suggest he's effective in a bottom 6 role at the NHL level right now, be it eye test or analytics.

You can't really say "the Rangers need to sort out their bottom 6" only to turn around and say "Howden is fine on the 4th line". Those two statements do not align.

 

I was hoping he would develop into some version of Boyle, haven’t seen it though.

 

I just wanna see one more year of him, to see if he can show anything else. I really don't know what it is, but I just feel this kid has it in him to be a pretty good player. I know there's been very little proof so far...you guys are right on! But what's one more season to watch? This next coming season is going to be more about Lafreniere, and watching the kids grow up a little more in my estimation.

 

I can't think that Howden has much trade value right now, so what the hell, let's see one more season of what he can do, and go from there.

 

I dunno, what can it hurt? ....I can't help it though...I just have a sneaky feeling about Howden, that I think there's a sleeping giant in there that can play a good role for this team given the time. ;)

[Pete]

No, because the last 2 seasons he's been the worst player in the league. So no, that's not his floor.

I actually thought that statistically Kakko was the worst forward in the league last year...

[CaptainMorganBarron]

No, because the last 2 seasons he's been the worst player in the league. So no, that's not his floor.

 

If that was true he would have been sent down to Hartford.

[josh]

If that was true he would have been sent down to Hartford.

 

On any other team in the NHL he would have been.

#pancakes

[LindG1000]

Right, that's Malholtra, the yawn.

 

Not to be the devil's advocate here, but isn't a Manny Malhotra precisely what this team actually needs right now? Guy who never costs you anything on the ice, maybe doesn't create much, but plays super-sound defense, kills penalties, wins draws....

 

If Howden becomes Malhotra, we're in business. Just feels like a real longshot right now.

[CaptainMorganBarron]

Not to be the devil's advocate here, but isn't a Manny Malhotra precisely what this team actually needs right now? Guy who never costs you anything on the ice, maybe doesn't create much, but plays super-sound defense, kills penalties, wins draws....

 

If Howden becomes Malhotra, we're in business. Just feels like a real longshot right now.

 

exactly right, I was wondering why they were yawning.

[Phil]

Not to be the devil's advocate here, but isn't a Manny Malhotra precisely what this team actually needs right now? Guy who never costs you anything on the ice, maybe doesn't create much, but plays super-sound defense, kills penalties, wins draws....

 

If Howden becomes Malhotra, we're in business. Just feels like a real longshot right now.

 

Howden is no Malhotra. He's not even Dominic Moore. He's barely even Todd White. He has no defined presence of any kind. Not a banger. Not a checker. Not positionally sound. Mediocre offense, substandard defense. Not big. Not a pronounced forechecker. He just... is. He's Manny Warmbody-tra.

[Ozzy]

Howden is no Malhotra. He's not even Dominic Moore. He's barely even Todd White. He has no defined presence of any kind. Not a banger. Not a checker. Not positionally sound. Mediocre offense, substandard defense. Not big. Not a pronounced forechecker. He just... is. He's Manny Warmbody-tra.

 

I hear ya Phil, no disagreement at all from the Ozz man....but I still want one more year to see....You know I'm usually quick with the noose too, so this one kinda goes against the grain for me...but I just have a gut feeling he's got more in the tank than what we've seen so far.

[Phil]

I mean, that's fine, but youth isn't a skill. I'm not sure, given all we've seen from him that something dramatic is going to change. He's played nearly 150 NHL games. By 200 games, I think it's pretty fair to say you are who you are.

[Vodka Drunkenski]

Was hoping for a real good face off center that used his size and played very well defensively. Haven?t seen any of it

[Ozzy]

I mean, that's fine, but youth isn't a skill. I'm not sure, given all we've seen from him that something dramatic is going to change. He's played nearly 150 NHL games. By 200 games, I think it's pretty fair to say you are who you are.

 

Oh I hear ya, I just think this guy is gonna be a late bloomer. After this coming season if he blows monkey ass, I'll shit all over it as usual...I promise!! :rofl:

 

Was hoping for a real good face off center that used his size and played very well defensively. Haven’t seen any of it

 

I was hoping he'd be another Sergei Nemchinov type, Vodka!!!!....loved Sarge!!! :thumbs:

[Phil]

Why? Nothing he's shown us thus far suggests that. He's OK at the dot and is generally well-liked by his teammates. That makes not a good, reliable hockey player. More like a poor man's Zenon Konopka.