gdt: [RS] (#53) Rangers v. Buffalo Sabres // This One's for Duane

[LONG LONG LONG TIME FAN]

This team had to stack a line with their best players to mount a last minute comeback attempt vs one of the worst teams in the NHL.

 

Think about that. Let it sink in.

 

 

 

I won't argue if Kakko was good or bad, I saw him do some good things and some Kakko things. But what really matters is that even if you think he had a solid game, it was against an AHL level team + Eichel.

 

There's no stronger argument that he should finish the season in the A, on a positive note, rather than play out the string here.

 

Your usual doomsday, nonsensical statements rear their UGLEEEEEEE heads yet again. Do you even watch the games or just rant on and on about players being trash, terrible, horrible, no damn good yah-dee-yah-dee-yah? Supposed to be a fan of the NYR and all you do is criticize at every turn. Try appreciating this team and enjoy - if at all possible - the games. Try to T.G. and maybe you will have a better perspective. Bye, Peetie. BTW, Buffalo and the NYR are neck and neck in the standings, even tho' the NYR have 2 games in hand. Think about THAT & let it sink in.

[LindG1000]

Yeah, once we sell off and we're out of it, send the waiver exempt kids down. Hartford's going on a run - load em up.

[LONG LONG LONG TIME FAN]

Hartford? That's the priority.

[ThirtyONE]

Kakko things means normal Kakko play which to this point has been unspectacular. Not sure how anyone can argue this.

 

Your rant would be warranted if I called him a bust or a waste of a pick. I said an 18 year old player who're clearly struggling at the NHL level should go the the AHL, especially after the team starts selling. You completely over reacted.

 

The Oilers' Kailer Yamamoto is a perfect example of a player needing some time, as this is his third year and he still wasn't ready so they sent him to the AHL after struggling mightily ... brought him back and he's now a key part of the best 2nd line in hockey. He's 21.

 

Why is sending an 18 year old player to the AHL considered insulting, to you?

 

I'm absolutely not against loading up Hartford at the end of the season and letting go for it. I'm not against sending Kakko down if that's what the Rangers want to do.

 

BUT, what I am against is saying Kakko was only good because it was an "AHL" team. That's a bullshit narrative that you're putting out there because you've been talking about sending him down for months now. I get that YOU think it's best to send him down. But using a good NHL game as proof that you're right is backwards logic.

 

Can't we just enjoy his good games? It's fun to watch him play well! It's exciting! There's hope when he has games like last night.

 

I'm just so sick of seeing people here and elsewhere feel the need to qualify everything. "Well, actually Buffalo is an AHL team..." No they're not, lol. They play in the national hockey league. They have the same amount of points as the Rangers. By your logic the bottom EIGHT teams in the NHL are actually AHL teams? When did that happen?

[LONG LONG LONG TIME FAN]

Hey 31. BRAVO! I'm not alone. Who woulda thunk?

[fletch]

its ridiculous how some fans are turning on a 18 year old who should be still in high school ,and is playing against the world best hockey players.

his speed and strength hasnt caught up to his big body yet

 

this, in a nutshell, is what the AHL is for. Development and teaching. There's a whole bunch of guys busting their ass to get better and be good enough for a call up. There's no doubt Kakko is talented - the question is how can the Rangers best accelerate his development.

[Blue Heaven]

This game had a bit of a nail in the coffin feeling. If there was ever a game to point to and say "this is why we are selling", this was it. Still 9 points back and lost one of their 2 games in hand. Buffalo was on a back to back and just lost to shitty Detroit last night in Buffalo. They came into MSG and shut a rested Rangers team down. Gross.

 

The nail in the coffin was the losses to the NYI and Columbus before the All-Star Break, both were 4 point games and instead of being about 5 points back, they ended up 11 points back.

[BrooksBurner]

The nail in the coffin was the losses to the NYI and Columbus before the All-Star Break, both were 4 point games and instead of being about 5 points back, they ended up 11 points back.

 

Those were tough ones too, especially the Columbus game. So close to a win, and then so close to at least OT. Came up with zilch.

[lefty9]

this, in a nutshell, is what the AHL is for. Development and teaching. There's a whole bunch of guys busting their ass to get better and be good enough for a call up. There's no doubt Kakko is talented - the question is how can the Rangers best accelerate his development.

i really think this experience is going to help him down the road, not against for Kakko to finish the year in hartford ,Kakko been busting his ass just like anyone else,how did he become the second overall pick in the draft,by busting his ass,thats how he earned a spot on the nhl

[Pete]

I'm absolutely not against loading up Hartford at the end of the season and letting go for it. I'm not against sending Kakko down if that's what the Rangers want to do.

 

BUT, what I am against is saying Kakko was only good because it was an "AHL" team. That's a bullshit narrative that you're putting out there because you've been talking about sending him down for months now. I get that YOU think it's best to send him down. But using a good NHL game as proof that you're right is backwards logic.

 

Can't we just enjoy his good games? It's fun to watch him play well! It's exciting! There's hope when he has games like last night.

 

I'm just so sick of seeing people here and elsewhere feel the need to qualify everything. "Well, actually Buffalo is an AHL team..." No they're not, lol. They play in the national hockey league. They have the same amount of points as the Rangers. By your logic the bottom EIGHT teams in the NHL are actually AHL teams? When did that happen?

 

I'm sorry you didn't pick up the sarcasm of "they're an AHL team", I was laying it on extremely thick.

 

As far as Kakko being in the AHL, if you think that's "my" narrative then you must have a really narrow scope of where you have your hockey discussions, because it's been discussed in other Rangers outlets and other hockey podcasts in general.

 

As far as the comment around "I knew was gonna happen when the Rangers decided to rebuild", I can say the same shit. This fanbase has zero patience on letting a player develop at the proper pace. Sorry but YOU wanting to watch him in the NHL is less important than his development. The fact that you're sitting here saying he should be in the NHL when the eyeball test and almost every metric points to him being one of the worst players in the NHL, by a lot, shows me that you're the impatient one. It's the same people who just want to throw Chytil in the 2nd line center position with Panarin when it's so clear that he's not ready for that who are the impatient ones.

 

The whole point is, and it was made in the Kakko thread, is that a rebuild isn't just throwing a bunch of 18-22 year olds out there, and give them ice time for no reason, and suffer through the suck and call that "patience". Sometimes patience can be the willingness to wait for a player you really want to see on the team, until he's actually ready to play in this league.

 

I do not understand why Rangers fans think the AHL is a demotion. The Habs just sent a 2nd year Kotkaniemi who had 36 points last year down to the AHL a few days ago. He had 6 points this year and wasn't playing alot. He has 4 points in 2 games in the AHL. Dominating the AHL is way better than drowning in the NHL, for an 18 year old.

 

And sorry, no I don't think it's fun to watch this kid drift around making no impact and looking lost nightly in exchange for a handful of plays that make me think he might be able to be an impact player in the NHL.

[Scott]

It's funny that it's sacrilegious to say the kid is a bad NHL player at this point in his career. Does it mean he will always be that, of course not and I don't believe a single person here is saying that. But at 18 he is what he is and that was not the expectation coming in. Only the hardened glass is always full thought he would tear the league up after Traverse City but I would bet very few if any at all thought he would be this bad at this level at this time. In person a handful of times watching him from the second he steps on the ice he's more often than not bad. Forget about being a second pick. For that matter Hughes has been crap too, but I couldn't care less about that because he's not a Ranger.

 

If it helps Panarin/Zib (to a slightly lesser degree)/Kreider/Strome/55/18/ were bad hockey players last night. Hard pressed to find anyone who wasn't honestly. They were just crapand half asleep from the drop of the puck. The too little too late goals and assists were nice I guess??

 

edit: nicely said Pete. Are his advanced stats as bad as the eye test?

[BrooksBurner]

Let's not conflate "had a good game" with "having a good season". I love how the argument has shifted from how Kakko performed in a single game last night to how he has been bad all year. What a shifting of goal posts...or a backtrack after reading literally everyone say he was good last night.

[Pete]

Let's not conflate "had a good game" with "having a good season". I love how the argument has shifted from how Kakko performed in a single game last night to how he has been bad all year. What a shifting of goal posts...or a backtrack after reading literally everyone say he was good last night.

 

I said it was a good game vs an AHL team.

 

He said they're not an AHL team and talked about the bullshit around rebuilding. I replied about what patience during a rebuild means.

 

Actually, fuck it, anyone reading can see it for what it is and see this post as a weak pot shot. Nah, there's no shifting. No backtracking. If you don't want to have the debate that ThirtyONE and I are having, don't have it. If you want to have it, don't bullshit about what the nature of the discussion is because you're looking for a fight.

[Pete]

It's funny that it's sacrilegious to say the kid is a bad NHL player at this point in his career. Does it mean he will always be that, of course not and I don't believe a single person here is saying that. But at 18 he is what he is and that was not the expectation coming in. Only the hardened glass is always full thought he would tear the league up after Traverse City but I would bet very few if any at all thought he would be this bad at this level at this time. In person a handful of times watching him from the second he steps on the ice he's more often than not bad. Forget about being a second pick. For that matter Hughes has been crap too, but I couldn't care less about that because he's not a Ranger.

 

If it helps Panarin/Zib (to a slightly lesser degree)/Kreider/Strome/55/18/ were bad hockey players last night. Hard pressed to find anyone who wasn't honestly. They were just crapand half asleep from the drop of the puck. The too little too late goals and assists were nice I guess??

 

edit: nicely said Pete. Are his advanced stats as bad as the eye test?

Look at where Kakko is, across the entire NHL for 5v5 offensive impact, according to one chart. It's like this across more than GAR...xGF...any shot share metric.

 

[josh]

This team had to stack a line with their best players to mount a last minute comeback attempt vs one of the worst teams in the NHL.

 

Think about that. Let it sink in.

 

I won't argue if Kakko was good or bad, I saw him do some good things and some Kakko things. But what really matters is that even if you think he had a solid game, it was against an AHL level team + Eichel.

 

There's no stronger argument that he should finish the season in the A, on a positive note, rather than play out the string here.

 

A big reason why it?s ironic everyone wants to keep the band together. They?re not good.

[Pete]

A big reason why it?s ironic everyone wants to keep the band together. They?re not good.

People have talked this year about getting rid of:

 

Zibenajad ("injury prone, concussed")

Kreider

Fast

Strome

Buch

4th line

Skjei

Staal

Trouba

Geo

Lundy

ADA

 

Not really sure who's advocating keeping anything together.

[Scott]

Look at where Kakko is, across the entire NHL for 5v5 offensive impact, according to one chart. It's like this across more than GAR...xGF...any shot share metric.

 

 

Thanks Pete and offense is is dominant strength. Scary.

[The Dude]

I used to take offense to when or people would suggest sending a prospect down. I've grown to realize it's not a death sentence. I didn't watch the game last night, but I've agreed for a while now that he needs a stint with Hartford.

 

I really thought the team would steam roll right out of the all-star break. These losses are the white flag. Seasons over. Give the kid something to play for. Get his confidence up. Finish the season in Hartford. See what he does in the playoffs. He can only get better down there. I think if he stays up with the Rangers, he will mope, and get down/let off the gas like the rest of the team.

 

I'd LOVE to see him out there with the teams top players for a long stretch. But he hasn't earned that yet. That's just how it goes. Id be fine with skipping the honor system of earning it, giving the kid merit only for his draft status.. It just doesn't happen anymore.

 

So, with that said. I don't want him rotting on the 3rd line. He really needs icetime. He needs to be out there and be THE guy to put his confidence back in place. Then come back next season off of a high note of what is hopefully a dominant performance by him through a playoff run. Maybe Shestorkin will be there with him.

[ASH1962]

Seriously, I think the real issue here is disappointment. Everyone, myself included, was expecting Kakko to come in and set the world on fire because he was billed as a franchise player who could be a major force here for 10-15 years and it just hasn't happened, in fact it looks like he could have been a second round pick the way he has performed, but we do have to be patient and remember he is a boy going against men. His 18 year old bod is not mature enough to take the pounding from grown men on a night in and night out basis. I do not see what the harm would be to send him to HFD and let him grow there. Hate to think the #2 player in toe world in 2019 supposedly is this lacking, I think it is a matter of physical maturity and time in Kakko's case. Forget the playoffs, this team and CS stinks and even if they make it, they will be ousted immediately. JD has to get involved in player development like he did in STL and CMH. We need big fast players and he knows how to find them, obviously,

[Ozzy]

I'm sorry you didn't pick up the sarcasm of "they're an AHL team", I was laying it on extremely thick.

 

As far as Kakko being in the AHL, if you think that's "my" narrative then you must have a really narrow scope of where you have your hockey discussions, because it's been discussed in other Rangers outlets and other hockey podcasts in general.

 

As far as the comment around "I knew was gonna happen when the Rangers decided to rebuild", I can say the same shit. This fanbase has zero patience on letting a player develop at the proper pace. Sorry but YOU wanting to watch him in the NHL is less important than his development. The fact that you're sitting here saying he should be in the NHL when the eyeball test and almost every metric points to him being one of the worst players in the NHL, by a lot, shows me that you're the impatient one. It's the same people who just want to throw Chytil in the 2nd line center position with Panarin when it's so clear that he's not ready for that who are the impatient ones.

 

The whole point is, and it was made in the Kakko thread, is that a rebuild isn't just throwing a bunch of 18-22 year olds out there, and give them ice time for no reason, and suffer through the suck and call that "patience". Sometimes patience can be the willingness to wait for a player you really want to see on the team, until he's actually ready to play in this league.

 

I do not understand why Rangers fans think the AHL is a demotion. The Habs just sent a 2nd year Kotkaniemi who had 36 points last year down to the AHL a few days ago. He had 6 points this year and wasn't playing alot. He has 4 points in 2 games in the AHL. Dominating the AHL is way better than drowning in the NHL, for an 18 year old.

 

And sorry, no I don't think it's fun to watch this kid drift around making no impact and looking lost nightly in exchange for a handful of plays that make me think he might be able to be an impact player in the NHL.

 

Seriously, I think the real issue here is disappointment. Everyone, myself included, was expecting Kakko to come in and set the world on fire because he was billed as a franchise player who could be a major force here for 10-15 years and it just hasn't happened, in fact it looks like he could have been a second round pick the way he has performed, but we do have to be patient and remember he is a boy going against men. His 18 year old bod is not mature enough to take the pounding from grown men on a night in and night out basis. I do not see what the harm would be to send him to HFD and let him grow there. Hate to think the #2 player in toe world in 2019 supposedly is this lacking, I think it is a matter of physical maturity and time in Kakko's case. Forget the playoffs, this team and CS stinks and even if they make it, they will be ousted immediately. JD has to get involved in player development like he did in STL and CMH. We need big fast players and he knows how to find them, obviously,

 

I've read a lot of Pete's reasoning for sending Kakko down over the last few weeks and I gotta say I'm finally seeing the light. I think his reasoning is correct and it's not, or should not be seen as a demotion. The kid is just simply not ready for prime time yet...and that's ok! Not everyone is a Sidney Crosby or a Connor McDavid. The only thing that can happen for him is that he gets bigger, better and stronger with more experience at a little slower level.

 

I suppose we should see a lot of fallout with the team around or after the deadline.

 

I gotta admit though, I'm a little excited and curious to see what's cooking. I believe in this regime though, and I know Gorton and JD will build this team correctly.

[Albatrosss]

I have no idea what you guys are talking about. He’s been very visible lately. Making moves, holds the puck, shoots the puck, and makes plays. He’s had few good games lately. He’s coming along. Only matter of time until pucks start going in.

 

As far as his defensive play, all offensive players coming into NHL need to learn the defensive side. He’s no exception.

[Long live the King]

Seriously, I think the real issue here is disappointment. Everyone, myself included, was expecting Kakko to come in and set the world on fire because he was billed as a franchise player who could be a major force here for 10-15 years and it just hasn't happened, in fact it looks like he could have been a second round pick the way he has performed, but we do have to be patient and remember he is a boy going against men. His 18 year old bod is not mature enough to take the pounding from grown men on a night in and night out basis. I do not see what the harm would be to send him to HFD and let him grow there. Hate to think the #2 player in toe world in 2019 supposedly is this lacking, I think it is a matter of physical maturity and time in Kakko's case. Forget the playoffs, this team and CS stinks and even if they make it, they will be ousted immediately. JD has to get involved in player development like he did in STL and CMH. We need big fast players and he knows how to find them, obviously,

A second round pick? We've reached a new level of absurdity.

 

Sent from my SM-G960U using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

A second round pick? We've reached a new level of absurdity.

 

Sent from my SM-G960U using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk

 

Why even bother responding? Obvious trolling. He got more points than Hughes lol, and he?s playing 1st line and PP.

 

Knowing what we know today I still take Kakko #2 without thinking.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk

[Pete]

Why even bother responding? Obvious trolling. He got more points than Hughes lol, and he?s playing 1st line and PP.

 

Knowing what we know today I still take Kakko #2 without thinking.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk

Hughes 19 points in 46 games.

 

Kakko 18 in 49.

 

Just for accounting purposes.

[Dunny]

You probably could have moved down a few spots and dumped a bad contract to do so. Something like Smith to Ottawa.

 

It's not that he's a bad prospect, I just don't see him heads and shoulders above any of the others in the top 8, anymore.

 

Thats splitting hairs, though.