The Road to Contending and the Rebuild "On the Fly": What's Missing?

[Ranger Lothbrok]

The Trouba trade signaled a shot across the bow to the rest of the league that we don't plan on languishing near the bottom, or tanking, any more than we have to. For the first time in modern league history we struck gold with the lottery, and adding a franchise player in Kakko drastically changes the dynamic moving forward. Picking 6th-8th and nabbing one of the top centers would have been nice, but none of them are ready to play now and none of them are in the same league as Kakko.

 

We all know that in today's NHL, the best defense is a good offense. Puck-moving is no longer a luxury on defense, it's a prerequisite. You need every one of your top 6 to be able to clear the puck out, make that outlet pass and, if they have it in their toolset, even join the rush. To this end, Fox/Trouba/Skjei/ADA are a great start. Coming down the pike at some point are K'Andre Miller, Nils Lundkvist, Yegor Rykov, Tarmo Reunanen, Joey Keane, etc.

 

The forwards likewise took a big step forward over the last year. Zibanejad is for all intents and purposes a #1C, and the roster is filled out with young talent up front like Howden, Chytil, Andersson, Krav (presumably), Kakko, Buchnevich, etc. Kreider may be the odd man out, but if he sticks around that's an even clearer indication that we are going for it.

 

If you buy in to the idea that we're in an arms race with NJ, sadly they're winning. Hischier cancels out Zib, we don't have another center to match Hughes (though Kakko should match the offense to some extent) Subban cancels out Trouba, and so the x-factor is Hall, a league MVP and leading point-scorer that we can't match.

 

And so that leaves the free agency. Artemi Panarin, if we're truly going for it, has become something of a must. That's our best shot at sniffing at a Hall-type talent, and it still falls short. Also in the mix, in my opinion, should be Joe Pavelski. He would drastically alter the dynamic down the middle, plays in all situations, and would be an excellent leader for a team with a lot of young faces. Problem is that when you have to pay those young faces, you can't be handcuffed by Staal-esque contracts. If Pavelski is willing to come on board for 2-3 years (which I doubt he will be), that's a move to strongly consider.

 

There's also the issue of having actual, defensive defensemen. Shatty should go and should be replaced by a cheaper stalwart type. For Staal, it seems like we're simply awaiting retirement to some extent. He rebounded last year but is still a shell of what he once was.

 

The point of this thread? I think we still have a shot at getting Henrik a Cup. I wouldn't buy in to the Henrik-window logic anymore where we mortgage the future because his clock is ticking, but we don't have to watch him fade in to obscurity either. St. Louis showed that you just need to be hot, get some puck luck at the right moments, and play as a unit to win it all. As soon as next season we could be doing the same.

 

What's next, in your opinion? How do you "complete" the rebuild on the fly? In my opinion, if Staal/Kreider/Shatty go, and you add Panarin/Pavelski/#4-#5 defensive defenseman, that's the whole ball game. We're ready to take a shot at it. But those are a lot of big "ifs," and July 1 will be very, very telling (and outcome-determinative).

[BrooksBurner]

I am becoming somewhat resigned to what seems to be a strong likelihood that Panarin goes to Florida, which would mean moving on to another plan. In that case, you kick the can down the road another year. If Kreider signs at a good rate, fine. If not, just trade him and be done with it. Look to vets to supplement the roster for 2 seasons. Pavelski is a great option if he leaves SJ.

 

Then re-evaluate next summer. Shattenkirk/Smith can be bought out for far cheaper. It would open up potential to be active on the FA market. Only problem is there is nobody on Panarin's level that will be available, unless Hall doesn't resign and would actually spurn NJ for NY.

 

In ths event Panarin actually signs here, flush out whoever you need to flush out. Namestnikov, Vesey etc.

[CBrowningPI]

Great post and great comment by rmc51. I am curious as to why you think Panarin will sign with Florida. And with past rumours and the fact that we have 6 young Russians for the bread man to play with, what's not to like for Panarin besides the state tax?

[josh]

Listen, I’m the first person that will scream “let’s go for the cup”, but let’s be careful with the “contending” talk.

 

Rangers aren’t going for 1 cup. They want to dominate the decade of the 2020s. Any move will be based on that.

Panarin - I’m all in, barring extreme overpayment. I like how it fills out the lineup. And it’s a huge boost to the rebuild.

Kreider - his re-signing should be irrelevant of Panarin. If he signs team friendly 6m x 8y, give him NMC and fine. Can’t over pay for a complementary first line player, and any contract in the danger zone needs to be a clear win.

Buchnevich- would love to see a 1 year deal. He’s too inconsistent, and could be the first guy out. I’m not ready for a long term contract, or a high cap hit. Prove it.

Pavelski - no. Guy is slow. Don’t have the pieces around him to make him effective. Worse than the Naslund experiment. Unless you do other moves (Panarin +) and this is a “final piece”, but even then..

[BrooksBurner]

I would be tempted to give Buchnevich a longer contract now. He scored 20 goals and the potential there is still very much untapped. A 4-5 year contract at 4m per might actually do it. But it all depends on the other moves that Gorton is going to do.

[BrooksBurner]

Great post and great comment by rmc51. I am curious as to why you think Panarin will sign with Florida. And with past rumours and the fact that we have 6 young Russians for the bread man to play with, what's not to like for Panarin besides the state tax?

 

Quennville. Bob and Panarin I think both are visiting Florida. I'm just speculating, but there's also a couple of good Russian players on the team and they can afford to sign both.

[Pete]

Quennville. Bob and Panarin I think both are visiting Florida. I'm just speculating, but there's also a couple of good Russian players on the team and they can afford to sign both.

After drafting Knight, not sure signing Bob is their priority.

 

I mean they need a goalie, but Bob is going to get a max deal. He's not going to sign there for three or four years.

[Pete]

I am becoming somewhat resigned to what seems to be a strong likelihood that Panarin goes to Florida, which would mean moving on to another plan. In that case, you kick the can down the road another year. If Kreider signs at a good rate, fine. If not, just trade him and be done with it. Look to vets to supplement the roster for 2 seasons. Pavelski is a great option if he leaves SJ.

 

Then re-evaluate next summer. Shattenkirk/Smith can be bought out for far cheaper. It would open up potential to be active on the FA market. Only problem is there is nobody on Panarin's level that will be available, unless Hall doesn't resign and would actually spurn NJ for NY.

 

In ths event Panarin actually signs here, flush out whoever you need to flush out. Namestnikov, Vesey etc.

I think this is an experimentation year, anyway.

 

Kakko

Kravtsov

Hajek

 

Possibly

Rykov

Lindgren

Lindqvist

 

Getting NHL action. Full year of Lemieux who was absolutely gassed at the end of the season. Trouba and Skjei together (presumably).

 

Chemistry experiment and see where people slot in.

 

If they get Panarin, great. If not, don't give Kreider stupid money or term, and this is a successful off season.

[BrooksBurner]

After drafting Knight, not sure signing Bob is their priority.

 

I mean they need a goalie, but Bob is going to get a max deal. He's not going to sign there for three or four years.

 

The timeline still fits. Knight is likely 3-4 years away. If Bobrovsky signs for 7, the load on the last 3ish years of that contract is eased as Knight gets more time. It might eventually be a bad contract to have on their books, but I'm not sure they care about that right now as much as they care about being competitive after hiring Quenneville.

[Pete]

The timeline still fits. Knight is likely 3-4 years away. If Bobrovsky signs for 7, the load on the last 3ish years of that contract is eased as Knight gets more time. It might eventually be a bad contract to have on their books, but I'm not sure they care about that right now as much as they care about being competitive after hiring Quenneville.

I don't think Knight is three or four years away... But don't necessarily disagree with your entire post here.

[BrooksBurner]

I don't think Knight is three or four years away... But don't necessarily disagree with your entire post here.

 

If he's closer than that, Florida will hate a Bobrovsky contract much sooner rather than later. No doubt about that.

[BrooksBurner]

I think this is an experimentation year, anyway.

 

Kakko

Kravtsov

Hajek

 

Possibly

Rykov

Lindgren

Lindqvist

 

Getting NHL action. Full year of Lemieux who was absolutely gassed at the end of the season. Trouba and Skjei together (presumably).

 

Chemistry experiment and see where people slot in.

 

If they get Panarin, great. If not, don't give Kreider stupid money or term, and this is a successful off season.

 

Yup. I don't think the expectation is to be a playoff team next year no matter what they do right now. It's all about 2020+.

[ThirtyONE]

I appreciate the thought out post here but I disagree with some of what was said.

 

Nobody should give a shit about Hank's "window" anymore. It's closed. The only cup he's going to win in NY is as a backup if at all. The Rangers are not, and should not, be operating with his longevity in mind.

 

Point two is NJ. We are not in an "arm's race" with NJ. They are 6 years into a rebuild and have been a dumpster fire for most of that time. If they're coming out of that phase, then good for them, but their activity has nothing to do with the Rangers.

 

Point three is that there is no rush. The Rangers will likely ice the youngest team in the NHL next season: meaning they will make a lot of mistakes, they will be frustrating at times, they will lose bad games, have bad goaltending, have poor scoring, make massive defensive blunders -- but it's all good. They will learn, and hopefully through experience, they will learn in the seasons ahead. As JD has said, it's a process. This will take lots of time. Some of the players that are here now, won't pan out or will be traded. The idea isn't to suddenly "go for it" but rather give yourself a 10-year span of playoffs and hopefully deep runs.

[Pete]

I appreciate the thought out post here but I disagree with some of what was said.

 

Nobody should give a shit about Hank's "window" anymore. It's closed. The only cup he's going to win in NY is as a backup if at all. The Rangers are not, and should not, be operating with his longevity in mind.

 

Point two is NJ. We are not in an "arm's race" with NJ. They are 6 years into a rebuild and have been a dumpster fire for most of that time. If they're coming out of that phase, then good for them, but their activity has nothing to do with the Rangers.

 

Point three is that there is no rush. The Rangers will likely ice the youngest team in the NHL next season: meaning they will make a lot of mistakes, they will be frustrating at times, they will lose bad games, have bad goaltending, have poor scoring, make massive defensive blunders -- but it's all good. They will learn, and hopefully through experience, they will learn in the seasons ahead. As JD has said, it's a process. This will take lots of time. Some of the players that are here now, won't pan out or will be traded. The idea isn't to suddenly "go for it" but rather give yourself a 10-year span of playoffs and hopefully deep runs.

 

To pile on, I also don't see how Hirschier with 49 points cancels out Zib with 74 points...

 

The whole comparison with NJ misses the mark when there are better teams in our division than NJ...Is it just because NJ got Hughes and Subban? They're a fucking train wreck otherwise.

 

Next year's team will score, and give up, a ton of goals. That much I'm willing to be the house on.

[tphilly5]

I appreciate the thought out post here but I disagree with some of what was said.

 

Nobody should give a shit about Hank's "window" anymore. It's closed. The only cup he's going to win in NY is as a backup if at all. The Rangers are not, and should not, be operating with his longevity in mind.

 

Point two is NJ. We are not in an "arm's race" with NJ. They are 6 years into a rebuild and have been a dumpster fire for most of that time. If they're coming out of that phase, then good for them, but their activity has nothing to do with the Rangers.

 

Point three is that there is no rush. The Rangers will likely ice the youngest team in the NHL next season: meaning they will make a lot of mistakes, they will be frustrating at times, they will lose bad games, have bad goaltending, have poor scoring, make massive defensive blunders -- but it's all good. They will learn, and hopefully through experience, they will learn in the seasons ahead. As JD has said, it's a process. This will take lots of time. Some of the players that are here now, won't pan out or will be traded. The idea isn't to suddenly "go for it" but rather give yourself a 10-year span of playoffs and hopefully deep runs.

 

I agree with this. The Trouba acq has us fans stomping on the gas. I got no problem with signing a Panarin or Kreider long term, but I think it is too much to expect top level from all our youngsters. Don’t care about Devils.

 

Was hoping for Kakko, but disappointed that we did not resolve Kreider, or move Vesey, etc...

[Pete]

Goals for 2019-20:

 

Get Chytil to 35 points (from 23).

Get Howden to 30 points (also from 23) and better manage his endurance.

See if Skjei and Trouba can develop as 1st pair. If not, then who?

Smooth transition for Fox and Kravtsov into the NHL. Determine if they need time in Hartford first.

Find Lias time at C. If not better than 9 min/g, see if he takes a step up in Hartford. Continue his progress.

Keep Hajek on the plane that he started on before his injury.

See if DeAngelo can take/has taken the steps in maturity necessary to cut it here and blossom

Continue to assess Lindgren,

 

 

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Nothing for Kakko?

 

;)

[RodrigueGabriel]

Nothing for Kakko?

 

;)

 

I just deleted it because I hadn't nearly finished it before it accidentally posted (damn phone). But yes, goals for Kakko, too.

[RodrigueGabriel]

Goals for 2019-20:

 

Get Chytil to 35 points (from 23).

Get Howden to 30 points (also from 23) and better manage his endurance.

See if Skjei and Trouba can develop as 1st pair. If not, then who?

Smooth transition for Fox and Kravtsov into the NHL. Determine if they need time in Hartford first.

Find Lias time at C. If not better than 9 min/g, see if he takes a step up in Hartford. Continue his progress.

Figure out how much rope Kakko gets, how much coaching he needs. Who is best with him.

Keep Hajek on the plane that he started on before his injury.

See if DeAngelo can take/has taken the steps in maturity necessary to cut it here and blossom

Continue to assess Lindgren, et al.

 

Anyway, the point here is that to focus on winning now is going to take attention away from the development of these kids and the team as a whole. TBH, I think we won more games than we should have last year, largely because of Quinn's ability to create a competitive culture. That should continue to grow. We'll do better than last year. If it's a lot better than last year, hot damn. But the team goals for this year should be around developing the kids and forging the architecture of the team.

[Bugg]

The timeline still fits. Knight is likely 3-4 years away. If Bobrovsky signs for 7, the load on the last 3ish years of that contract is eased as Knight gets more time. It might eventually be a bad contract to have on their books, but I'm not sure they care about that right now as much as they care about being competitive after hiring Quenneville.

 

If Knight were European, may be. But he's not; he's going to want to be in the NHL sooner rather than later.

[josh]

Skjei - Trouba doesn’t make sense. I’d rather see ADA - Trouba, Skjei - Fox

[Fatfrancesa]

The Trouba trade signaled a shot across the bow to the rest of the league that we don't plan on languishing near the bottom, or tanking, any more than we have to. For the first time in modern league history we struck gold with the lottery, and adding a franchise player in Kakko drastically changes the dynamic moving forward. Picking 6th-8th and nabbing one of the top centers would have been nice, but none of them are ready to play now and none of them are in the same league as Kakko.

 

We all know that in today's NHL, the best defense is a good offense. Puck-moving is no longer a luxury on defense, it's a prerequisite. You need every one of your top 6 to be able to clear the puck out, make that outlet pass and, if they have it in their toolset, even join the rush. To this end, Fox/Trouba/Skjei/ADA are a great start. Coming down the pike at some point are K'Andre Miller, Nils Lundkvist, Yegor Rykov, Tarmo Reunanen, Joey Keane, etc.

 

The forwards likewise took a big step forward over the last year. Zibanejad is for all intents and purposes a #1C, and the roster is filled out with young talent up front like Howden, Chytil, Andersson, Krav (presumably), Kakko, Buchnevich, etc. Kreider may be the odd man out, but if he sticks around that's an even clearer indication that we are going for it.

 

If you buy in to the idea that we're in an arms race with NJ, sadly they're winning. Hischier cancels out Zib, we don't have another center to match Hughes (though Kakko should match the offense to some extent) Subban candle out Trouba, and so the x-factor is Hall, a league MVP and leading point-scorer that we can't match.

 

And so that leaves the free agency. Artemi Panarin, if we're truly going for it, has become something of a must. That's our best shot at sniffing at a Hall-type talent, and it still falls short. Also in the mix, in my opinion, should be Joe Pavelski. He would drastically alter the dynamic down the middle, plays in all situations, and would be an excellent leader for a team with a lot of young faces. Problem is that when you have to pay those young faces, you can't be handcuffed by Staal-esque contracts. If Pavelski is willing to come on board for 2-3 years (which I doubt he will be), that's a move to strongly consider.

 

There's also the issue of having actual, defensive defensemen. Shatty should go and should be replaced by a cheaper stalwart type. For Staal, it seems like we're simply awaiting retirement to some extent. He rebounded last year but is still a shell of what he once was.

 

The point of this thread? I think we still have a shot at getting Henrik a Cup. I wouldn't buy in to the Henrik-window logic anymore where we mortgage the future because his clock is ticking, but we don't have to watch him fade in to obscurity either. St. Louis showed that you just need to be hot, get some puck luck at the right moments, and play as a unit to win it all. As soon as next season we could be doing the same.

 

What's next, in your opinion? How do you "complete" the rebuild on the fly? In my opinion, if Staal/Kreider/Shatty go, and you add Panarin/Pavelski/#4-#5 defensive defenseman, that's the whole ball game. We're ready to take a shot at it. But those are a lot of big "ifs," and July 1 will be very, very telling (and outcome-determinative).

 

Exhibit A in why people say you can’t rebuild in nyc. Multiple teenagers on our roster, it is completely unfair to expect them to contend. This is till s bad hockey team. Only difference is that there is much to look forward to and that they will be bad because of youth not lack of talent. The potential for greatness is there, people just need to temper their expectations and let them grow up.

[RangersIn7]

I appreciate the thought out post here but I disagree with some of what was said.

 

Nobody should give a shit about Hank's "window" anymore. It's closed. The only cup he's going to win in NY is as a backup if at all. The Rangers are not, and should not, be operating with his longevity in mind.

 

Point two is NJ. We are not in an "arm's race" with NJ. They are 6 years into a rebuild and have been a dumpster fire for most of that time. If they're coming out of that phase, then good for them, but their activity has nothing to do with the Rangers.

 

Point three is that there is no rush. The Rangers will likely ice the youngest team in the NHL next season: meaning they will make a lot of mistakes, they will be frustrating at times, they will lose bad games, have bad goaltending, have poor scoring, make massive defensive blunders -- but it's all good. They will learn, and hopefully through experience, they will learn in the seasons ahead. As JD has said, it's a process. This will take lots of time. Some of the players that are here now, won't pan out or will be traded. The idea isn't to suddenly "go for it" but rather give yourself a 10-year span of playoffs and hopefully deep runs.

 

Thanks dude

 

Hank?s window no longer matters. They owe him nothing at this point. He got paid a dump truck full of money and if he wants to win a Cup, he?s been given his opportunity to go elsewhere and pursue that. He?s been a great Ranger but he?s not the guy they?re building around anymore

Move on

 

They needn?t rush anything. And NJ is irrelevant

[CBrowningPI]

NHL.com just did a Shattenkirk article. He's excited about next season and is hoping to rebound after training hard this summer.

[Long live the King]

Exhibit A in why people say you can?t rebuild in nyc. Multiple teenagers on our roster, it is completely unfair to expect them to contend. This is till s bad hockey team. Only difference is that there is much to look forward to and that they will be bad because of youth not lack of talent. The potential for greatness is there, people just need to temper their expectations and let them grow up.

Do agree at all. Especially if they sign Panarin and keep Kreider. Kakko shouldn't be viewed as a normal teenager either.

 

Panarin - Zibanejad - Kakko

Kreider - Chytil - Buch

Lemuiex - Andersson - Kravtsov

Nerves - Howden - Fast

 

Skjei - Trouba

Staal - Fox

Hajek - ADA

 

That is not a bad hockey team.

 

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[Fatfrancesa]

Do agree at all. Especially if they sign Panarin and keep Kreider. Kakko shouldn't be viewed as a normal teenager either.

 

Panarin - Zibanejad - Kakko

Kreider - Chytil - Buch

Lemuiex - Andersson - Kravtsov

Nerves - Howden - Fast

 

Skjei - Trouba

Staal - Fox

Hajek - ADA

 

That is not a bad hockey team.

 

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Why shouldn’t he? He’s 18 coming to a new country, speaks little English, and has to adapt to the nhl grind. All the while having impossible expectations being heaped on him like him not being a normal teenager. He’s going to be great but people need to calm down and let the kid breathe.

 

On top of that you have chytil, Andersson, howden, Kravtsov, Hajek, Fox, lemieux and Nieves all still trying to find their roles and figure it out as a nhl player as well. Add in an ancient hank and your expectation is contending?