Eye-Opening Attendance Figures at MSG

[Giacomin]

 

:palm: :rofl: Kevin, Pete... Sod

[LeetchFan]

Love it. The getting a scalper ticket after the game starts was an old trick my dad showed me. He grew up poor, so he's keen on finding "bargains". I was always worried about getting shutout or missing something. Once counterfeit tiks hit the scene, that method got too sketchy.

Wanted to take my young cousins to see a game at MSG (they had never been) in the early-1990's. Approached a scalper on 34th or 33rd street, shady-looking dude. The tickets looked a bit strange so I was mulling it over. My young 12-year old cousin said "Come on, Cousin Mike, they look good." I forked over $200 for 4 mid-range seats vs. the Flyers.

 

Fakes.

 

We ended up going to the top of the Empire State Building and eating at McDonalds. Cost me $230. I still have the ESB receipts as a reminder.

[LeetchFan]

Call me tight, but I've never been willing to pay arena prices for beer. (To that end, I snuck three bottles of beer under my tuxedo going to a formal last night rather than pay $8 per at the club).

There seems to be a trend -- well, a few teams at least -- to really cut the price of the food/beer. The Atlanta Falcons are most noteable in this regard. I believe a beer is $5 and a hot dog $1.50. Not sure if they are making it up with higher ticket/PSL prices (doubt it) but I think this could simply be cutting the overall cost of a game to increase attendance.

 

Elasticity of price hikes may have reached diminishing returns.

 

What burns me at MSG or CitiFIELD is paying $5 for a Coke/Pepsi that costs maybe 20 cents in syrup. I realize eating out always needs to cost more, and taxes/costs in NYC are higher than elsewhere. Still, a 20-fold markup (maybe more !) for a simple drink is obscene. I think the beer markup is less; I'm not a big beer drinker but 12-oz. of beer is what.....$2 at the store ? So 400% inflation at the game. :mad:

[GordonGecko]

What burns me at MSG or CitiFIELD is paying $5 for a Coke/Pepsi that costs maybe 20 cents in syrup. I realize eating out always needs to cost more, and taxes/costs in NYC are higher than elsewhere. Still, a 20-fold markup (maybe more !) for a simple drink is obscene. I think the beer markup is less; I'm not a big beer drinker but 12-oz. of beer is what.....$2 at the store ? So 400% inflation at the game. :mad:

 

ok here we go

[LONG LONG LONG TIME FAN]

12 oz. Buds @ msg, citifield, yankee stadium = $10 per. Dogs around $5 buckaroos!! Complete ream job by the owners!!

[GordonGecko]

from Giacomin on HFBoards:

 

"I had 2 interesting takes from Tuesday's game against Anaheim. The first one is obvious and that is the lower bowl looked about half full for a Christmas week game. I saw rows upon rows that were mostly empty. The second is a little different. I always take the LIRR into the game getting in around 530 and then I go over to a local bar restaurant and grab dinner before the game. Tuesday the LIRR was having signal problems and trains were stopping at Jamaica so I had to take the E train to Penn getting in a few minutes after 6. I just grabbed a couple of slices at Rose Pizza in Penn and got up to my seats in Section 209 about 645. The beer vendor who is always stationed outside of 209 always remembers what kind of beer I drink and we always say a few words to each other. Anyway at 645 it was empty so I mentioned how dead it seemed and he told me that beer sales were way down this year . He said that the regulars buy most of the beer and there are not as many regulars anymore just more tourists. So take it from the beer man who said he has been working at the Garden for 16 years in a prime location that sales are down. I guess Dolan and the Rangers are getting what they want. I think beer sales should be the ultimate barometer as to the crowds they are getting and if the beer guy said they are way down then MSG is in trouble. I don't think $13.50 a beer is the reason when the tickets are almost $100!"

[Future]

Beer sales from the walkaround vendors might be down, but corporate spending on $25 cocktails is probably way up. That vendor slowing down isn't a measure of how well MSG is doing.

[Dunny]

Yeah, I was at a game Tuesday and our tickets were $500/piece, beers were flowing at $13/each and I think we went through an entire 40oz bottle of rum.

 

Of course, I would never be involved in such a horrible waste of money if I had to pay, it was all corporate. These aren't events for families. They're orgies for corporate people that don't even look at the actual game. All the "crowd noise" is obviously piped in, and there's as many women dressed to the nines as there are men.

 

This is all by design.

[Sod16]

Just for some perspective, the notion that MSG has "gone corporate" and the "real fans" are being displaced is as old as the Garden itself (now age 51). There were chants of "red seats suck" and "suits" for as long as I can remember (heck, I can remember when people thought the "fat cats" were in the $8 red seats while the "real fans" were in the $4.50 blue seats!). But it's probably true that it only gets worse and the Garden has made a conscious decision that exorbitant micro premium pricing is a net gain even if it means empty seats. Still, they were selling out through last year with pretty much the same pricing policies, and now they are not. It could be a long term overstep, and I don't think they will survive their next seven year playoff absence as well as they did the last one.

[GordonGecko]

But it's probably true that it only gets worse and the Garden has made a conscious decision that exorbitant micro premium pricing is a net gain even if it means empty seats.

I think this is the first time this pricing model has been so strongly implemented in any pro sports in North America. They have raised prices for ALL tickets to the high end of the resale market in recent years and despite people not paying the prices, they are holding strong on not discounting or liquidating supply. There are more and more empty seats for the Rangers and Knicks every game and they are doing absolutely nothing to fill them except advertise and push ultra expensive mini plans. It's their way or the highway, people either pay or they don't go and they don't care if nobody is in the seat

[Pete]

I think this is the first time this pricing model has been so strongly implemented in any pro sports in North America. They have raised prices for ALL tickets to the high end of the resale market in recent years and despite people not paying the prices, they are holding strong on not discounting or liquidating supply. There are more and more empty seats for the Rangers and Knicks every game and they are doing absolutely nothing to fill them except advertise and push ultra expensive mini plans. It's their way or the highway, people either pay or they don't go and they don't care if nobody is in the seat

Seems like a smart business model.

[GordonGecko]

Seems like a smart business model.

 

Airlines are using this model right now, they aren't discounting flights they hold the line and people do pay. The difference is there's no secondary market for plane tickets because they're not freely transferable. If the Rangers & Knicks keep sucking it's going to be interesting to see what the end game is here

[Pete]

Airlines are using this model right now, they aren't discounting flights they hold the line and people do pay. The difference is there's no secondary market for plane tickets because they're not freely transferable. If the Rangers & Knicks keep sucking it's going to be interesting to see what the end game is here

If fans were smart they'd class action for a Monopoly.

[Bugg]

Yeah, I was at a game Tuesday and our tickets were $500/piece, beers were flowing at $13/each and I think we went through an entire 40oz bottle of rum.

 

Of course, I would never be involved in such a horrible waste of money if I had to pay, it was all corporate. These aren't events for families. They're orgies for corporate people that don't even look at the actual game. All the "crowd noise" is obviously piped in, and there's as many women dressed to the nines as there are men.

 

This is all by design.

 

This may change dramatically once companies complete their tax form for 2018 . Tickets to concerts and sporting events are not going to be nearly as deductible as they were under the old rules. There is always going to be some corporate sky box stuff but expect a lot of companies to look to cut back on this kind of spending since it will not longer be a big writeoff. A lot of pro sports franchises configured stadiums and arenas to try to milk corporate spending. Notice at Metlife not only are there a lot of empty seats in the stands but a lot of luxury boxes that are empty.

[Sod16]

I have long said that the solution to billionaire sports team owners shaking down taxpayers for new stadiums and arenas with more luxury boxes is a further reduction of the deductibility luxury suites as business expenses.

 

Personally, I've never been in one of those boxes for fun. Just for work when I was expected to generate business out of it, and that's no fun. I remember one Sunday morning I'm working on a project with my then seven year old daughter. Phone rings. Get on a plane, go to Atlanta, suck up to assholes at Falcons Sunday night game. Fly back Monday am and straight to office to put out fires. I hate luxury boxes.

[Fatfrancesa]

I will never set foot into msg for a ranger game again. Been offered to go a couple of times this year and just won’t do it. Gave up my seats this summer. After the lockout season the entire nhl came back hat in hand sucking the fans balls. They were so appreciative or so they said. It took about five seasons for Dolan and the like to stick of straight up the fans asses again. Enough. All these leagues are in trouble when this generation of kids are the ones in the work force spending their money. Unlike us who were able to attend games with our families as kids these kids at least the majority don’t have that option. Add in all the extra entertainment options they prefer and the future fan base will shrink. Legalized gambling was always a non starter for the leagues but they have just recently changed their mind. It wasn’t only about the revenue today it was all about hoping to be relevant in the years to come. It’s disgusting what these teams have done. The rangers and Jim Dolan are up at the top in fucking their fans. This will come to a head at some point in our lifetime. That I’m sure of.

[Fatfrancesa]

Also at this point what incentive is there to hold season tickets. In the past you couldn?t get tickets. There was a waiting list for season tickets. Today you can?t get anywhere close to face value for your seats if you can?t go. Conversely if you want to go to a game you can buy at under face value without having to eat all the money a season ticket holder pays for games they can?t attend. There is no waiting list today. There is only negatives to having season seats. You can go any night for equal or less than face value. Why prepay for 41 games and also pay for useless preseason games?

 

I know three other people who kept their seats this year. 2 of them are done after this year. The other is on the fence. It?s going to get worse. There isnt a long line of people waiting to buy these tickets.

[Bugg]

I will never set foot into msg for a ranger game again. Been offered to go a couple of times this year and just won’t do it. Gave up my seats this summer. After the lockout season the entire nhl came back hat in hand sucking the fans balls. They were so appreciative or so they said. It took about five seasons for Dolan and the like to stick of straight up the fans asses again. Enough. All these leagues are in trouble when this generation of kids are the ones in the work force spending their money. Unlike us who were able to attend games with our families as kids these kids at least the majority don’t have that option. Add in all the extra entertainment options they prefer and the future fan base will shrink. Legalized gambling was always a non starter for the leagues but they have just recently changed their mind. It wasn’t only about the revenue today it was all about hoping to be relevant in the years to come. It’s disgusting what these teams have done. The rangers and Jim Dolan are up at the top in fucking their fans. This will come to a head at some point in our lifetime. That I’m sure of.

The economics have changed dramatically. had season tickets in the blues in high school as a paperboy, and then well into my career. But as I got older, driving into Manhattan became a pain in the ass, and the subway little better. So once we had kids would go to a game or 2 a year. And That is now very cost prohibitive.

 

One thing the team owners really have to think about long term; kids are not nearly as attached to teams as they once were. They like video games, and they like merchandise. But it's not the same as being a big time lifelong fan. It's more transient. If a team has a long playoff run in a given season, sure. But hockey especially needs fans to see the game, to really understand it and appreciate it. Odd that today there are way more American kids playing hockey than when I grew up, but doesn't look like they go to games as we did. Admit it's not scientific and it's my own perspective; but there was nothing like walking into that arena as a little kid. It is like nothing else. Not sure it's anywhere close to that now. Not sure how you change that either. Should be some mechanism to get kids and families to go. For a while they did offer a $60 ticket with good seats and a food voucher, but it's gone away. It's why the group I went to a few games with every year stopped going.

 

And empty seats add nothing to anyone's bottom line.

[Pete]

I will never set foot into msg for a ranger game again. Been offered to go a couple of times this year and just won?t do it. Gave up my seats this summer. After the lockout season the entire nhl came back hat in hand sucking the fans balls. They were so appreciative or so they said. It took about five seasons for Dolan and the like to stick of straight up the fans asses again. Enough. All these leagues are in trouble when this generation of kids are the ones in the work force spending their money. Unlike us who were able to attend games with our families as kids these kids at least the majority don?t have that option. Add in all the extra entertainment options they prefer and the future fan base will shrink. Legalized gambling was always a non starter for the leagues but they have just recently changed their mind. It wasn?t only about the revenue today it was all about hoping to be relevant in the years to come. It?s disgusting what these teams have done. The rangers and Jim Dolan are up at the top in fucking their fans. This will come to a head at some point in our lifetime. That I?m sure of.

Also at this point what incentive is there to hold season tickets. In the past you couldn?t get tickets. There was a waiting list for season tickets. Today you can?t get anywhere close to face value for your seats if you can?t go. Conversely if you want to go to a game you can buy at under face value without having to eat all the money a season ticket holder pays for games they can?t attend. There is no waiting list today. There is only negatives to having season seats. You can go any night for equal or less than face value. Why prepay for 41 games and also pay for useless preseason games?

 

I know three other people who kept their seats this year. 2 of them are done after this year. The other is on the fence. It?s going to get worse. There isnt a long line of people waiting to buy these tickets.

The economics have changed dramatically. had season tickets in the blues in high school as a paperboy, and then well into my career. But as I got older, driving into Manhattan became a pain in the ass, and the subway little better. So once we had kids would go to a game or 2 a year. And That is now very cost prohibitive.

 

One thing the team owners really have to think about long term; kids are not nearly as attached to teams as they once were. They like video games, and they like merchandise. But it's not the same as being a big time lifelong fan. It's more transient. If a team has a long playoff run in a given season, sure. But hockey especially needs fans to see the game, to really understand it and appreciate it. Odd that today there are way more American kids playing hockey than when I grew up, but doesn't look like they go to games as we did. Admit it's not scientific and it's my own perspective; but there was nothing like walking into that arena as a little kid. It is like nothing else. Not sure it's anywhere close to that now. Not sure how you change that either. Should be some mechanism to get kids and families to go. For a while they did offer a $60 ticket with good seats and a food voucher, but it's gone away. It's why the group I went to a few games with every year stopped going.

 

And empty seats add nothing to anyone's bottom line.

These same exact posts are on page 1.

 

Now we're just repeating ourselves here haha. :rofl:

[BrooksBurner]

:popcorn:

[Bugg]

These same exact posts are on page 1.

 

Now we're just repeating ourselves here haha. :rofl:

 

YOUR ARE WRONG!!! My companion post is on page 2.

[Pete]

YOUR ARE WRONG!!! My companion post is on page 2.

LOL. I was just thinking it was funny how deep the MSG hate runs.