Do the Rangers Try to Move Kreider This Season?

[Gravesy]

Kreider for Tolvanen and Fabbro

 

Zuc for Katchouk and Raddyish (LW/RW)

 

You?re not getting anything near that for either of them buddy.

[Dunny]

Both are struggling in the start of their pro careers.

 

They picked the right guy in Howden.

[Gravesy]

Zucc gets a pick.

Kreider gets more, but probably not two high end prospects like Tolvanen and Fabbro.

[LONG LONG LONG TIME FAN]

I think Gorton should listen to offers for every single player on the roster bar Chytil, Pionk, Howden and Andersson. Move as many of them as possible for picks and prospects, provided the offers are good enough. I'd even include Zibanejad in that if the haul is satisfactory.

 

Get rid of everyone associated with the NYR. Disband the franchise. Melt the ice. Demolish MSG.

 

[Dunny]

Oh, I was speaking to Raddysh and Katchouk

[The Dude]

Kreider has been pretty god damn lame this season. He's setting his screens but he's not playing physical at all. I was expecting a supercharged start to the season from him.

 

Nobody on this roster is untouchable. Maybe just Howden. In the right deal I absolutely trade Kreider. It'd have to be a pretty nice package of young players ready to step right into a top 6 role.

[BrooksBurner]

Kreider has been pretty god damn lame this season. He's setting his screens but he's not playing physical at all. I was expecting a supercharged start to the season from him.

 

Nobody on this roster is untouchable. Maybe just Howden. In the right deal I absolutely trade Kreider. It'd have to be a pretty nice package of young players ready to step right into a top 6 role.

 

Why would Chytil not be untouchable?

[Vodka Drunkenski]

Kreider for Tolvanen and Fabbro

 

Zuc for Katchouk and Raddyish (LW/RW)

 

Put down the xbox controller

[The Dude]

Why would Chytil not be untouchable?

 

I forgot him. Then again, he's kinda playing a little below where I had hoped he'd be. But, yeah, I guess he can stay.

[Giacomin]

Both are struggling in the start of their pro careers.

 

Why you say? In Syracuse for the 1st time, they've played 5 games with the Crunch. Taylor has 2 goals. Boris a goal and assist. They weren't making Tampa this year out of camp. They are 20, drafted 2016. Boris had 85 points last year and 37 in the playoffs. PPG in U20 this summer. He's gritty, plays D. Raddysh had almost identical #'s, good size, hockey smarts, plays hard. Both project as top 9 wingers with upside.

 

I think both meet their projections, but at least one will have a very good career. Zuc is worth a 1st. When he gets hot (now?) someone will pay. Posters want prospects, here's 2 from a deep system. I want both. Add McQuaid if it closes the deal.

 

They picked the right guy in Howden.

 

If you remember, you were the first to bring up all 3 forwards in Dec/Jan? way before the letter. I was the one responding with Howden, Foote and a 1st. The Rangers had Howden early on, in any deal. But we wanted more than Howden and a 1st. The hangup was the Dman coming back. The deal never got close to getting done until it expanded to include Miller a day or so before the deadline.

[Giacomin]

I forgot him. Then again, he's kinda playing a little below where I had hoped he'd be. But, yeah, I guess he can stay.

 

:chug:

 

I'm drinking a fresh IPA (from a keg) you'd really appreciate. Usually super complex IPAs have that bitter finish, but this is so smooth w/o any fruity hops. They are breaking new ground here in NY/VT/MA

[Giacomin]

Put down the xbox controller

 

Sounds like I should pick up an Xbox first. They have prospects on xbox? Last game I played was on my sons PS2 and not sports games.

 

Trades are coming brother. The Rangers have received interest in Names. Kypreos is reporting Hayes. Incoming calls. This thread was about trading Kreids, people want some NHL ready prospects.

 

Do you have something to suggest, some prospects out of the division? You are consistent with you one-line critiques. I try to offer specific suggestions, the devil is in the details. Anyone can say yeah trade Kreid for top prospects, but who? You tried to cut down the McD to Tampa/Tor trade discussions here last year, which turned out to be quite relevant.

[Giacomin]

Zucc gets a pick.

Kreider gets more, but probably not two high end prospects like Tolvanen and Fabbro.

 

Then Nashville doesn't add Kreids, maybe the Jets, Avs or Vegas do. Besides some don't think Fabbro is high-end upside and Tolvanen is kinda slight and can't make the team. Neither project to be helpful this year or get playoff minutes.

 

Let's not settle or be desperate. Kreider has 2 years left and it's conceivable (believable) we are considering a 4-5 year extension. Not looking for a deadline 1st for him, don't actively market him until we get a real offer. Other deals I'd consider:

 

Kreider + our 3rd (Jets traded theirs) for Vasalainen, Dylan Samberg and Mason Appleton. Or Sami Nicu instead of Samberg and Appleton.

Vasy is not ready either. Mikey implied the Rangers talked to the Jets about Samberg. Throw-in Staal or Shatty at 45% retained, if their interested.

 

A trade with Vegas has to revolve around Brannstrom. Suzuki is gone.

 

Though the Avs are loaded with prospects only Makar excites me, who they likely don't move. Yet, he's 2 years from helping them, so inquire. Really like Timmons, but he has a worrisome injury. Anyone else have a prospect deal?

[Vodka Drunkenski]

Sounds like I should pick up an Xbox first. They have prospects on xbox? Last game I played was on my sons PS2 and not sports games.

 

Trades are coming brother. The Rangers have received interest in Names. Kypreos is reporting Hayes. Incoming calls. This thread was about trading Kreids, people want some NHL ready prospects.

 

Do you have something to suggest, some prospects out of the division? You are consistent with you one-line critiques. I try to offer specific suggestions, the devil is in the details. Anyone can say yeah trade Kreid for top prospects, but who? You tried to cut down the McD to Tampa/Tor trade discussions here last year, which turned out to be quite relevant.

 

I know trades are coming, that?s how rebuilds work but I guess while writing your novels, you completely missed the point of the one line critique. As for last year, I was barely around here, brother.

[Gravesy]

Then Nashville doesn't add Kreids, maybe the Jets, Avs or Vegas do. Besides some don't think Fabbro is high-end upside and Tolvanen is kinda slight and can't make the team. Neither project to be helpful this year or get playoff minutes.

 

Let's not settle or be desperate. Kreider has 2 years left and it's conceivable (believable) we are considering a 4-5 year extension. Not looking for a deadline 1st for him, don't actively market him until we get a real offer. Other deals I'd consider:

 

Kreider + our 3rd (Jets traded theirs) for Vasalainen, Dylan Samberg and Mason Appleton. Or Sami Nicu instead of Samberg and Appleton.

Vasy is not ready either. Mikey implied the Rangers talked to the Jets about Samberg. Throw-in Staal or Shatty at 45% retained, if their interested.

 

A trade with Vegas has to revolve around Brannstrom. Suzuki is gone.

 

Though the Avs are loaded with prospects only Makar excites me, who they likely don't move. Yet, he's 2 years from helping them, so inquire. Really like Timmons, but he has a worrisome injury. Anyone else have a prospect deal?

 

I don?t think it?s about being desperate or settling, it?s about managing expectations and being realistic. Kreider is an ok to good player, but he isn?t a difference maker for a team going for the cup. In Nashville he doesn?t get near their top 6 and probably battles with Jarnkrok for the 3rd line LW spot. It?s true some have question marks over Fabbro, but him and Tolvanen are still seen by most as the Preds top two prospects. And I really don?t see a team packaging the top end of their farm system for a guy like Kreider. It would have to be a desperate situation imo, something like Arvidsson doing his cruciates or similar situation that leaves a massive hole.

 

I think a more likely package is a pick, a good to very good prospect/young player and possibly a decent prospect with upside.

 

I?m having a hard time seeing teams giving up more than a pick for Zucc as a rental. I guess the hope is he steps his game up and we have a bit of a bidding war to drive up the price.

[josh]

Trading a first line player for a future third liner is a great way to kill a rebuild.

 

Top line talent or bust

[Kevin]

I still hate the idea of trading Kreider. I know he doesn't really live up to his potential night in and night out but he usually does something positive that helps the team win on any given night. Championship teams are not only full of young guys. There has to be some veterans mixed in and I think with everything that Chris brings on and off the ice he should stay. Honestly, with the right center, I think he still achieves some of the things that we've thought should be happening (30 goal season).

[Gravesy]

Trading a first line player for a future third liner is a great way to kill a rebuild.

 

Top line talent or bust

 

He’s only a first line player by default. He isn’t a first line player for a good team. That’s why I can’t see a deal for him where we get high end prospects in return. I’m not actually advocating moving him for that, merely saying what I think we can expect in return if we move to trade him. I agree with Kevin, I think it might be worth keeping him around unless someone gets desperate and offer something we can’t refuse.

[Giacomin]

I don’t think it’s about being desperate or settling, it’s about managing expectations and being realistic. Kreider is an ok to good player, but he isn’t a difference maker for a team going for the cup. In Nashville he doesn’t get near their top 6 and probably battles with Jarnkrok for the 3rd line LW spot. It’s true some have question marks over Fabbro, but him and Tolvanen are still seen by most as the Preds top two prospects. And I really don’t see a team packaging the top end of their farm system for a guy like Kreider. It would have to be a desperate situation imo, something like Arvidsson doing his cruciates or similar situation that leaves a massive hole.

 

I think a more likely package is a pick, a good to very good prospect/young player and possibly a decent prospect with upside.

 

I’m having a hard time seeing teams giving up more than a pick for Zucc as a rental. I guess the hope is he steps his game up and we have a bit of a bidding war to drive up the price.

 

Completely understand what you're saying. Yet, we don't have to move Kreids so why accept a package of quantity when we really need top-end prospects? Like Kevin said, we will be reluctant to move him, even moreso if he gets hot. We can get picks or a decent prospects for others like Zuc , Names, McQuaid, Spoons, etc. Hayes may also be moved. My point - We need to target prospects specifically like the draft, not just get fed a team's 2nd level prospects and settle.

 

Maybe we need a team that really is desperate for a Cup over another prospect, especially if their system is loaded. Or suffer a key injury. The Jets have too many kid forwards and this year struggle to get Roslovic and Lemieux minutes. Vasalainen may have a long wait for real minutes, Appleton forever. They have Samberg and Nicu, they can spare one. Got to give to get.

 

The Avs have a loaded system and may have the best 1st line in hockey and need top 6 wingers so they can be more than a one line team. Just have to find a match.

[Gravesy]

Completely understand what you're saying. Yet, we don't have to move Kreids so why accept a package of quantity when we really need top-end prospects? Like Kevin said, we will be reluctant to move him, even moreso if he gets hot. We can get picks or a decent prospects for others like Zuc , Names, McQuaid, Spoons, etc. Hayes may also be moved. My point - We need to target prospects specifically like the draft, not just get fed a team's 2nd level prospects and settle.

 

Maybe we need a team that really is desperate for a Cup over another prospect, especially if their system is loaded. Or suffer a key injury. The Jets have too many kid forwards and this year struggle to get Roslovic and Lemieux minutes. Vasalainen may have a long wait for real minutes, Appleton forever. They have Samberg and Nicu, they can spare one. Got to give to get.

 

The Avs have a loaded system and may have the best 1st line in hockey and need top 6 wingers so they can be more than a one line team. Just have to find a match.

Yeah, like I said above I’m not saying we move him for that return. I’m just saying the return you suggested from Nashville is unrealistic in my opinion.

I really can’t see teams looking at Kreider and saying “this guy is the missing piece” and be willing to part with a couple of high end prospects to get him.

You mentioned the Avs, for me they’d be stupid to send us their best prospects for Kreids. He’s not going to help them win the cup so that would be a short term solution for minimal gain.

 

I hope I’m wrong of course and teams are willing to pay through the nose for him. But I think with Kreider we might be better off keeping him for now.

[Giacomin]

Yeah, like I said above I’m not saying we move him for that return. I’m just saying the return you suggested from Nashville is unrealistic in my opinion.

I really can’t see teams looking at Kreider and saying “this guy is the missing piece” and be willing to part with a couple of high end prospects to get him.

You mentioned the Avs, for me they’d be stupid to send us their best prospects for Kreids. He’s not going to help them win the cup so that would be a short term solution for minimal gain.

 

I hope I’m wrong of course and teams are willing to pay through the nose for him. But I think with Kreider we might be better off keeping him for now.

 

Kreids is a rarebird, there are going to be a couple of teams who would love to add him. Blazing fast PF and he'll stand in front of the net with the best of them and won't shrink to the tighter checking. He's going to be one of the best wingers available and he's beyond a rental. I think you are underestimating his value a little. We want a McD like return for him. And should get it, if we decide to move him.

 

You're probably right about Nashville. But we need a potential top line winger in return, like Tolvanen, plus something. BTW, if your top prospect is someone like Makar or Heiskanen, they are not for sale. But Vasalainen or Brannstrom (#2 prospect) are slightly longer shots to being elite, so they should be tradeable if the org has depth at that position.

[josh]

He’s only a first line player by default. He isn’t a first line player for a good team. That’s why I can’t see a deal for him where we get high end prospects in return. I’m not actually advocating moving him for that, merely saying what I think we can expect in return if we move to trade him. I agree with Kevin, I think it might be worth keeping him around unless someone gets desperate and offer something we can’t refuse.

He’s a great complimentary first line player on just about any team. Size, speed, shot, physicality, net presence. And a few clutch playoff goals, too. Some of what he does doesn’t show on the scoresheet

Closer to a first line player than anyone else on the team.

[Gravesy]

Kreids is a rarebird, there are going to be a couple of teams who would love to add him. Blazing fast PF and he'll stand in front of the net with the best of them and won't shrink to the tighter checking. He's going to be one of the best wingers available and he's beyond a rental. I think you are underestimating his value a little. We want a McD like return for him. And should get it, if we decide to move him.

 

You're probably right about Nashville. But we need a potential top line winger in return, like Tolvanen, plus something. BTW, if your top prospect is someone like Makar or Heiskanen, they are not for sale. But Vasalainen or Brannstrom (#2 prospect) are slightly longer shots to being elite, so they should be tradeable if the org has depth at that position.

 

It’s worth pointing out that we didn’t get high end prospects in the McD deal.

Gorton & co did well in identifying tier 2 prospects worth taking.

[Giacomin]

He’s a great complimentary first line player on just about any team. Size, speed, shot, physicality, net presence. And a few clutch playoff goals, too. Some of what he does doesn’t show on the scoresheet

Closer to a first line player than anyone else on the team.

 

You're right, we need high-end potential if we are moving him. Stand firm in negotiations. Not to split hairs, but I'd put Zibs in that complimentary 1st liner category too, but we have him locked up. It would take even a bit more to pry him away. Of course another concussion could change that.

[Gravesy]

He’s a great complimentary first line player on just about any team. Size, speed, shot, physicality, net presence. And a few clutch playoff goals, too. Some of what he does doesn’t show on the scoresheet

Closer to a first line player than anyone else on the team.

 

 

Going to have to disagree with you here. He’s unlikely to be considered for the first line on most contending teams. For many of them he’d be unlikely to crack the 2nd line.

But that’s just my opinion. I’m happy to agree to disagree.