gdt: [RS] (#73) Rangers vs Columbus Blue Jackets // So, like, #tankszn or Nah?

[Dunny]

Two weeks ago everyone was in agreement that he was a great 2C, not a legit 1C.

 

Now he puts some points up in what is essentially garbage time and he's a 1C again?

 

I'm not buying it.

 

It's the equivalent of a dude jacking 10 bombs in MLB September, it doesn't really mean anything.

 

Of course, we'll get an entire year to see Zibanejad in this role next year, so we have time.

[josh]

Funny how your entire argument relies on conveniently ignoring a critical qualifier in mine. You even went out of you way to not bold it. Don't think that goes unnoticed.

 

Secondarily, MZ is a 0.69 P/GP player this season. That's the equivalent of 57 points over 82 games. That may be on the low end of the spectrum, but it's absolutely top-line production in today's NHL. Last season that would have seeded him among a group including Koivu (58 in 80), Giroux, Kesler, Toews, Kuznetsov, Monahan (58/82), and Stepan (55 in 81).

 

His ES scoring last season also ranked him among Giroux (26), Granlund (25), Drouin, and Stastny (27).

 

 

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That's the difference between a 1 and a 2.

[Dunny]

My biggest argument against him is that his two big runs of point production came during stretches where they are losing almost every night.

 

Coincidence? Maybe.

[Phil]

Not to mention that in his two years here he has started the season to combined for 16g and 20a for 37p in 43 games prior to his injuries. That's .86 points per game. He finished last year with 13 points in his last 17 games (.77ppg). He had 9 points in the 12 playoff games (.75ppg). With 9 games left, he has 12 points in his last 9 games. He has it in him to be a 70 point player, just needs to stay healthy.

 

Agreed. His P/GP pace has also risen incrementally every year since he joined the league. Slow and steady.

 

 

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[Scott]

Thought he was especially critical of the D. Maybe i'm getting used to Georgiev not complaining. Even on the 4th goal when he just look to his left and wasn't looking at the puck and panerin just scooped it up from his pads, he kinda blamed the D on that, saying he thought the play was dead because they left the front of the net.

 

He'd better get used to the weak D if he wants to keep playing

 

Agreed. His body language to me speaks volumes when he gives up a goal. I don't remember him just sitting there slumped forward more often than not. It makes sense that he's struggling to adjust to playing on a team with so many holes and what is essentially garbage time. His play hasn't been steller either. I would think part of him is second guessing if he wants to ride this out. Probably a small part but nonetheless. Imo the D is terrible in their own zone and especially in front of him. That's not going to change any time soon, even IF Shattenkirk comes back a different player that's not going to help in the D zone. Hank is definitely showing signs of frustration more than ever, I think he'd prefer if guys would stop going down trying to block shots when the end up screening him. He's a winner who needs to come to the realization the road ahead can be pretty bumpy and at times ugly. Completely agree Georgiev is just happy to be out there and the last thing he's going to do at this point is show his frustration with anyone.

[Pete]

My biggest argument against him is that his two big runs of point production came during stretches where they are losing almost every night.

 

Coincidence? Maybe.

 

But have the points come against teams with something to lose, would be my question.

[Phil]

That's the difference between a 1 and a 2.

 

So Giroux, Granlund, Kuznetsov, Monahan, Toews, and others are all equally not ones?

[Phil]

Two weeks ago everyone was in agreement that he was a great 2C, not a legit 1C.

 

Now he puts some points up in what is essentially garbage time and he's a 1C again?

 

I'm not buying it.

 

It's the equivalent of a dude jacking 10 bombs in MLB September, it doesn't really mean anything.

 

Of course, we'll get an entire year to see Zibanejad in this role next year, so we have time.

 

If Zibanejad is your 2C, you're deep. To me, he produces as a 1C, albeit on the lower end of the spectrum. Gun to my head, he's a fringe 1C/2C. On a great team, he's ideally your two. On a good, you can get by just fine with him as your one provided you've got depth in your lineup.

[Long live the King]

So, say we're lucky enough to draft one of the Euro wingers in the top 3. If our first line is Kreider - Zib - that winger, and that winger and Kreider each score 30 goals with Zib hitting 70 points, is that not a legit 1st line?

[Pete]

So, say we're lucky enough to draft one of the Euro wingers in the top 3. If our first line is Kreider - Zib - that winger, and that winger and Kreider each score 30 goals with Zib hitting 70 points, is that not a legit 1st line?

 

While I'd think that's highly unlikely, I totally understand your point.

 

For most of the NHL, a first line player is not judged by individual talent but determined by how well those talents mesh with linemates.

[josh]

Well, are the majority of their points on the PP and do they routinely get out played by opponents 5 on 5?

[josh]

That’s the “Shattenkirk is a top pair defenseman because he puts up points” argument.

[Pete]

That’s the “Shattenkirk is a top pair defenseman because he puts up points” argument.

 

No, because a forward putting up point is his job. A top pairing defenseman's job is to to also play defense.

 

I would never complain about a player putting up points on the PP, either.

[Long live the King]

That’s the “Shattenkirk is a top pair defenseman because he puts up points” argument.

 

No its not. Points don't make a top pair D.

[Long live the King]

Well, are the majority of their points on the PP and do they routinely get out played by opponents 5 on 5?

 

46% of Blake Wheeler (who is being talke about as MVP in another thread) have come on the PP...

[josh]

No, because a forward putting up point is his job. A top pairing defenseman's job is to to also play defense.

 

I would never complain about a player putting up points on the PP, either.

 

I’m not complaining about pp points. But you will NOT be a successful team if your 1C has 10 even strength assists on the season!

[Pete]

I’m not complaining about pp points. But you will NOT be a successful team if your 1C has 10 even strength assists on the season!

 

He was hurt for 11 games, and aside from Kreider and Buch, the players he was with most often were Zucc and Nash. That should explain lack of assists. I'd like to see Quality Chances Created, if they track that.

[josh]

hes Tied with Holden!

 

He has 2 more than Boo Nieves.

 

 

 

He will be a great 2nd line winger behind Kreider.

That’s what we should strive for.

[Pete]

Your entire point is disingenuous and not worth addressing.