[friedman] Rangers Should Look at Options on UFAs, May Be Willing to Listen on Zucc, McD

[Phil]

But its still just want they think. Maybe Gorton has been making calls already, but you honestly think that if the Rangers win 6 out of the next 7 he's still going to trade everyone?

 

I would imagine it's a fluid situation. But let me ask you and anyone else taking umbrage with this style of "reporting" ? do you think he's actually lying or outright making any of this up purely to draw viewers?

 

 

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[Morphinity 2.0]

No, he's not making it up. He's speculating and offering up some discussion at a between periods round table on TV.

 

Which is fine. But "Friedge says Rangers have started listening..." is different from "Friedge thinks Rangers should start listening..."

[Phil]

OK. Title updated. Now can we talk about it? :)

 

 

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[Long live the King]

It's not about lying. "I think they're taking a look at their UFA's." "I think they're willing to listen." To me those are pretty obvious statements. Is the GM ever not looking at his options to improve his team now and in the future? Of course its fluid, but I think Morph's beef is when the put "Rangers ready to listen" on the bottom of the screen they make it seem like they just got off the phone with Gorton.

 

If they play like they did yesterday over the next few weeks then yea, there's gonna be some big changes.

 

If yesterday was a wake up call and they can flip the switch, there won't.

[Long live the King]

OK. Title updated. Now can we talk about it? :)

 

 

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Lol, yea so let's talk about the actual trades, since there's already a whole thread about the timing...

 

In what mathematical world does first-round pick and top prospect equal first-round pick and third-round pick the following season?

 

Zucc to Nashville? Their first in 2018 and Eeli Tolvanen excites me, yes.

 

Fuck yes, moving Zuc or McD at the deadline is all about the prospect. Like the Erat for Forsberg deal. If they can't pry the top prospect from a team though, I'd wait for the draft and try to mimic the Stepan deal for a higher pick.

[Giacomin]

In what mathematical world does first-round pick and top prospect equal first-round pick and third-round pick the following season?

 

Zucc to Nashville? Their first in 2018 and Eeli Tolvanen excites me, yes.

 

OK, well I was trying to decifer what a trade with a Cup contender might look like, since no one specified a team or an actual return. Earlier in the thread someone said not even a first. Someone (you) added he'd be worth a 1st plus. What you really meant was the equivalent of two firsts. Fair enough.

 

BTW, I agree Zuc is worth two late 1sts, if we trade him and want fair value in return. I still wouldn't consider trading any of Nash, Grab, Zuc and McD for picks/prospects until we are very near the deadline and have more information.

[Phil]

That's fine. I think most people probably think the same, or close. Especially the front office.

 

But it's not hyperbolic to project them as sellers given the trajectory of this season. Especially since the New Year. They're 4-4-2 in their last ten, haven't won in regulation in nine games, and share positional relativity with teams like the Sabres and Coyotes in nearly every shot metric in the game.

 

 

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[Giacomin]

OK. Title updated. Now can we talk about it? :)

 

Better, but my title was more accurate.

 

Phil it depends what you mean by informed. A good half of us here are pretty informed. However, if you listen to that clip, "thinking" from some damn studio after a blowout is not even close to working sources in and around the organization to find information. So yes, to answer your question, he is not lying just making something up that he thinks makes sense.

[Dunny]

Zucc to Calgary for Sam Bennet and a 2nd or 3rd.

 

McD and Staal to Leafs for Jake Gardiner, Kasperi Kapanen and a 2nd.

 

 

Actually, that's pretty depressing.

[Phil]

So you're suggesting Elliotte Friedman is no more informed than "a good half of us here"? You can't be serious. What, no one's interested in making money here by, you know, actually sharing that information? If even one of us was that connected they'd be hired by any of the major sports outlets tomorrow.

 

 

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[Dunny]

Tavares

Zib

Hayes

Bennet

 

Re-sign McD.

 

Maybe not so depressing.

[LONG LONG LONG TIME FAN]

Taking for pure fact the opinion of reporters on any subject is wishful thinking.

[Mr.wiskers]

Yeah it may be an opinion but he?s really stating the obvious, we are not gonna go far if we even make the playoffs?we are just not a good enough team. I wouldn?t deal McD or Zuccs unless it starts with a top prospect, yes I?d love picks but reality is we are giving up a really good player who can help a team go far into the playoffs airgo dropping our own position as far as the pick we?re gonna get?shooting ourselves in the foot. Maybe we can get Puljujarvi from Edm. Or Marner from Tor.

 

 

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[paddynyc]

Toronto would love to add McDonough

 

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[josh]

Tavares

Zib

Hayes

Bennet

 

Re-sign McD.

 

Maybe not so depressing.

Andersson

[josh]

Toronto would love to add McDonough

 

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a lot of teams would.

I dont think you are going to get Liljegren, Marner, Nylander or Mathews. Months ago, I mentioned a package around Komorov, Kapanen, 1st (grit, youth-speed-scoring, pick) Probably get another pick or prospect, too.

I'd also be interested in something with Washington. If we could get Burkawsky (and Wilson!) and pick. Potential future sniper.

 

Really, with McDonagh, Zuccarello, or either combined with a Hayes/Miller/Kreider will get a hefty return, giving you help now and in the future.

[Phil]

How many years does Komarov have left?

 

Edit: stopped being lazy and looked it up. He's a UFA this summer so that's a bit useless without another piece. But I like the general idea. 1st, Kapanen, Dermott, and Komarov for the cap balance and I'm real close to a yes.

 

 

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[Giacomin]

So you're suggesting Elliotte Friedman is no more informed than "a good half of us here"? You can't be serious. What, no one's interested in making money here by, you know, actually sharing that information? If even one of us was that connected they'd be hired by any of the major sports outlets tomorrow.

 

No, I'm not suggesting he is no more informed than many of us, in general. I'm saying he is no more informed on the issue he discussed in that 25 second clip than many of us who know the Rangers and hockey.

 

Now maybe I'm giving too many of us, too much credit. So I'll just speak for me and Elliot, but I believe many here understand and feel similarly. Here goes:

 

1. The advent of the cap makes asset mgmt critical to success. You also need to constantly be replenishing the pipeline. You can no longer realistically build a Cup team without youth. I'm not sure you ever could.

2. Good asset mgmt requires honest consideration of trading or resigning UFAs, since they will no longer be an asset next year.

3. The Rangers have a recent history of contending, buying at the deadline and trying to win within Hank's window.

4. The Rangers went 4-5 years w/o a 1st rounder and traded numerous #2 picks and a couple of prospects during the same period.

5. Gorton has stated it is time to rebuild (on the fly) and the team is not inclined to trade picks. If anything the team has sent the message that we want more picks.

6. Nash ( a former star) and Grabs (a great story) are known UFAs, so OBVIOUSLY a decision needs to be made on them. Each looks to command a first and be a big add for another team.

7. Rangers are slumping again, Kreids is out longterm, just got blown out, may struggle to make playoffs if this continues.

8. Gee, I think I'm a genius concluding Gorton might listen to offers.

 

None of that means I think that Gorton will be a seller until he uses all the time he has to assess the team and our position. Elliot should have told you that, but he did not. So I am telling you because I am just as informed as Elliot on this.

 

As for McD and Zuc, do you or anyone here think Gorton with trade either for picks and a prospect before the 11th hour of the trading deadline? If you do, you are being unrealistic and are not using reasoning. If McD or Zuc are to be traded now, it will be for an actual roster player. Only way they are traded for futures is if by the deadline we are way down in the standings and pessimism is prevalent in the org.

 

As for your other point... no, not everyone here is interested in making money by sharing hockey info or talking hockey. I think many of us are professionals and have what we may consider even better careers. Some of us have contacts in our field (or prior fields) that are/were among the most noteworthy in the industry and are not so impressed with "who you know". Some of us try to avoid fame and the public limelight (hard to understand for the tuber, blogger, facebook, check me out generation) and enjoy being behind the scenes doing what we love and what we think is important.

 

I know in this era of narcissism this may be hard to believe. Maybe we are in the minority at this time, but I hope we evolve to a less selfish and insecure existence.

[josh]

How many years does Komarov have left?

 

Edit: stopped being lazy and looked it up. He's a UFA this summer so that's a bit useless without another piece. But I like the general idea. 1st, Kapanen, Dermott, and Komarov for the cap balance and I'm real close to a yes.

 

 

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Yeah, I posted that earlier in the season, as in - have him for the majority of the season, not just the end. Still, if we make the move now, he can bring in that attitude we want in the bottom 6. Essentially, my trade would bring back that attitude-type guy, a young stud, and a pick.

[Phil]

You missed my point about fame. It was directly related to the issue of knowing more than Friedman. But this is beginning to veer off the rails a bit. The overarching point is that discussion, however preliminary, of dealing UFAs and possibly more should now be a consideration in the front office given the trajectory of their play.

 

You can be upset that Friedman mentioned it the way he did because it came off as snide or as boastful, or whatever, but it's the conversation I'm interested in. Not whether he used exactly the proper syntax to introduce it into the national NHL conversation.

 

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[Giacomin]

Toronto would love to add McDonough

 

Time to revive a thread and my suggestion to open talks with Toronto about a trade centered around McD (who they will resign to a long term contract) for Marner or Nylander. If other parts need to be included to make it work, fine,

 

Josh I'm not buying your argument that we have to package McD with a Miller or Kreid or Zuc to get a key player. If McD has the value many here think (#1D men do command big returns), then I'm not trading him for a bunch of quantity and question marks.

 

This team needs genuine scoring talent who is an asset anywhere on the ice. The goal shouldn't be to "shake things up", but to find what we need. You think we need grit as do many others here. I think we need talent, particularly a #1 or #2 Center and a #1 RHD. Big time talent. Talent that compliments a roster full of good players and a few not so good players.

 

Mgmt has to target the right guys. The way we did with Graves and Messier. The way we did with Gabby and Nash, even if that did not end with a Cup. We don't need to trade McD for a couple of "good" players, with limited upside.

[Giacomin]

Remember, trading McD opens up another hole. Skjei moves up and now we also need a top-4 LHD. So if I'm trading McD, I'm going big and filling a need at either the 1RHD, the 2C with upside or a top line 35-40 goal scorer.

 

Add Zuc to a trade and you just lost one of the only true leaders, who bring some grit to the team, which you want. Forget all the other things Zuc brings, like leading in scoring. Lose Zuc (who is under contract for another year) creates another big hole for this year and next. Just like Mac.

[josh]

Time to revive a thread and my suggestion to open talks with Toronto about a trade centered around McD (who they will resign to a long term contract) for Marner or Nylander. If other parts need to be included to make it work, fine,

 

Josh I'm not buying your argument that we have to package McD with a Miller or Kreid or Zuc to get a key player. If McD has the value many here think (#1D men do command big returns), then I'm not trading him for a bunch of quantity and question marks.

 

This team needs genuine scoring talent who is an asset anywhere on the ice. The goal shouldn't be to "shake things up", but to find what we need. You think we need grit as do many others here. I think we need talent, particularly a #1 or #2 Center and a #1 RHD. Big time talent. Talent that compliments a roster full of good players and a few not so good players.

 

Mgmt has to target the right guys. The way we did with Graves and Messier. The way we did with Gabby and Nash, even if that did not end with a Cup. We don't need to trade McD for a couple of "good" players, with limited upside.

I agree with all of this, all im saying is that it could bring back even more.

We might not have to package, but if we do, we might get a lot more. You mentioned Marner... but he's playing on the 4th line right now, and has for most of the season

 

The thing is, I dont know that names that might be available for a package. I mentioned McDonagh-Draisaitl in the past, the Toronto trade I mentioned earlier. Ideally, you have McDonaghs name bring back a top player, and then flip a Miller for a few roles players/young legs.

[josh]

Remember, trading McD opens up another hole. Skjei moves up and now we also need a top-4 LHD. So if I'm trading McD, I'm going big and filling a need at either the 1RHD, the 2C with upside or a top line 35-40 goal scorer.

 

Add Zuc to a trade and you just lost one of the only true leaders, who bring some grit to the team, which you want. Forget all the other things Zuc brings.

We should have Smith and Staal that should both be able to play a top 4 LHD spot.

 

 

When Zucc brings grit, he's horrible. Thats the last thing he needs to do on the ice.

 

I'm also not trading McDonagh for a D (redundant) or a 2nd line player.

[Giacomin]

You missed my point about fame. It was directly related to the issue of knowing more than Friedman. But this is beginning to veer off the rails a bit. The overarching point is that discussion, however preliminary, of dealing UFAs and possibly more should now be a consideration in the front office given the trajectory of their play.

 

You can be upset that Friedman mentioned it the way he did because it came off as snide or as boastful, or whatever, but it's the conversation I'm interested in. Not whether he used exactly the proper syntax to introduce it into the national NHL conversation.

 

OK, I think I get what you are saying about Friedman. He has something to offer, in general. My point is his Ranger comment was pure "thinking" out loud, but not based on any new info. In other words, it was not a 'report' or journalism.

 

It was speculation. The speculation on our UFAs is common sense. The speculation on Zuc and McD was him trying to be interesting, I guess because that is part of his job.

 

I'm not agitated about the way he said it. I may be bothered by the idea that some think that segment was based on any inside info or even any legit info that the viewer did not already know.