HBO's 'Westworld'

[Ranger Lothbrok]

I'm wondering if at some point

We find out that some of the supposedly human characters are actually hosts. Bernard seems like a prime candidate.

 

Oooohhh I like that. That would be a great twist.

[McDougalfaschnitzer]

Latest episode was good. It's definitely a slow build but it is keeping my interest.

[The Dude]

Anyone else thinking the man in black is Arnold?

[McDougalfaschnitzer]

Wasn't my first instinct since he was recognized by the command room people (they said he can do whatever he wants). The reaction he got from that person when he was like "I'm trying to enjoy my vacation" makes me think he is just a super rich dude with an obsession.

[Jules]

I am not sure what to make of anything in the show right now. I found this last episode to be underwhelming. I get it, hosts are finding out shit's whack, Dolores is a girl in a blue dress going down the rabbit hole and everyone in the office is afraid to spill the beans on their true goals. There were some solid nuggets in this episode - the pyro effects scene made me laugh - but it was so damn slow. Go somewhere already!

[McDougalfaschnitzer]

I'm wondering if at some point

We find out that some of the supposedly human characters are actually hosts. Bernard seems like a prime candidate.

 

 

Boom.

 

 

Things got a little juicy in the last episode.

[paddynyc]

Boom.

 

 

Things got a little juicy in the last episode.

 

Good episode last night and that was a shocker, but who else?

[Future]

Good episode last night and that was a shocker, but who else?

Too hard to predict really.

 

 

But what I think is happening is that Ford is using dead bodies and, essentially, reanimating them. That's why there have been a couple of references to cadavers, Ford re-built his family, Bernard was probably killed and brought back, and I think Elsie will be too. That could also be the larger experiment that Hale was hinting at earlier on. They're not talking about robots in park, they're talking about, essentially, never-ending life, particularly if they're able to figure out how exactly memory and improvisation work together.

 

[McDougalfaschnitzer]

Too hard to predict really.

 

 

But what I think is happening is that Ford is using dead bodies and, essentially, reanimating them. That's why there have been a couple of references to cadavers, Ford re-built his family, Bernard was probably killed and brought back, and I think Elsie will be too. That could also be the larger experiment that Hale was hinting at earlier on. They're not talking about robots in park, they're talking about, essentially, never-ending life, particularly if they're able to figure out how exactly memory and improvisation work together.

 

 

 

 

The last episode kind of blew open the door of anyone possibly being a host.

 

[Future]

The last episode kind of blew open the door of anyone possibly being a host.

Agreed. I'm not really a fan of that, personally.

[Rizz GAWD Lav No Cap FrFr]

So...

 

 

Are you guys familiar with the time lines theory? The show is actually accounting for 3 different time periods in the park's history. One during the early stages, prior to Arnold dying, but after they've opened. The second, the arrival of William, and the third the story of the man in black. Now what links these together, is that Bernard may in fact be a copy of Arnold, and the Man in Black may actually be William. There's a lot more to it, but that's the gist. I encourage giving it a read.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/11/westworld-recap-bernard-robot-kills-theresa-episode-7-tromp-loeil/amp?client=safari

 

[McDougalfaschnitzer]

So...

 

 

Are you guys familiar with the time lines theory? The show is actually accounting for 3 different time periods in the park's history. One during the early stages, prior to Arnold dying, but after they've opened. The second, the arrival of William, and the third the story of the man in black. Now what links these together, is that Bernard may in fact be a copy of Arnold, and the Man in Black may actually be William. There's a lot more to it, but that's the gist. I encourage giving it a read.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/11/westworld-recap-bernard-robot-kills-theresa-episode-7-tromp-loeil/amp?client=safari

 

Yeah it seems plausible.

[The Dude]

So...

 

 

Are you guys familiar with the time lines theory? The show is actually accounting for 3 different time periods in the park's history. One during the early stages, prior to Arnold dying, but after they've opened. The second, the arrival of William, and the third the story of the man in black. Now what links these together, is that Bernard may in fact be a copy of Arnold, and the Man in Black may actually be William. There's a lot more to it, but that's the gist. I encourage giving it a read.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/11/westworld-recap-bernard-robot-kills-theresa-episode-7-tromp-loeil/amp?client=safari

 

 

Delores has memories of the man in black raping her, kinda debunking the man in black theory. I don't buy the timeline theory. That would be too confusing and a really bad twist to story lines that could allow the writers to switch things up to make a shitty story work.

 

My theory? Just about the whole cast are hosts, including Theresa. Letting Maeve run wild is pretty dumb as the staff and upper management notice everything..

]

[Rizz GAWD Lav No Cap FrFr]

Delores has memories of the man in black raping her, kinda debunking the man in black theory. I don't buy the timeline theory. That would be too confusing and a really bad twist to story lines that could allow the writers to switch things up to make a shitty story work.

 

My theory? Just about the whole cast are hosts, including Theresa. Letting Maeve run wild is pretty dumb as the staff and upper management notice everything..

]

 

 

The rape is just inferred, we don't know that to be the case. The Man In Black never shows any interest in sex in the park, like William, and uses traumatic events to trigger events within the hosts.

 

The whole cast may be hosts, that's very possible. But I don't think it debunks any time line theory. One thing to also note, the W in West World is different in William's visit than the present day/MIB's visit.

 

[Drew a Penalty]

 

I don't think that the Main in Black raped Dolores. Pretty much on the basis of what John said which is kind of implied with the MiB showing up in Maeve's memory as well as Dolores'. I doubt he's a rapist at all. With him mentioning "when you're suffering, that's when you're most real" and using that as a means of finding more regarding the maze I think he'd have exploited that method before.

 

Another option is that considering he's carrying a knife in both Dolores and Maeve's memories it could've been him scalping them until he found that Kissy's scalp contained the maze symbol.

 

The time frame theory works even more if you buy that Dolores has embarked on the journey she first went on with William again, this time by herself, which explains the appearance and reapparance of certain characters.

 

[Guest]

It would require rewatching, but almost every time some TV show or movie does multiple time lines or realities, there is a concrete way to tell them apart. Different filming techniques, something that's always present in each timeline, a reoccuring color, or something like that.

[The Dude]

The rape is just inferred, we don't know that to be the case. The Man In Black never shows any interest in sex in the park, like William, and uses traumatic events to trigger events within the hosts.

 

The whole cast may be hosts, that's very possible. But I don't think it debunks any time line theory. One thing to also note, the W in West World is different in William's visit than the present day/MIB's visit.

 

 

MIBs personality is totally different. He's a dark character while William is the traditional nice guy. Re watching the first episode MIB also slaps Delores around before the implied rape, which I think is shown a little bit more in depth in another episode..

 

in watching the first episode it's strange.. Why is Teddy on the train with the guests as they arrive? Did he escape the map? Maybe there's a timeline shift THERE, because Teddy is keeping his promise to Delores of coming back.. We don't know where he's coming back from, again he is on the train from the outside world. He's been out.. Is he connected to William? Is/was that in world storyline based on William and Delores' Westworld adventure? Is Ford making characters based on guests, to make them more realistic? And taking their story and adapting it to his world??

 

If there ARE different time lines, maybe MIB is Logan?? And he's constantly trying to get as far as William did? Maybe William died? I don't recall MIB, Logan, William and Teddy together in one episode. Anywho, I think it's deeper than different time lines.

 

[Rizz GAWD Lav No Cap FrFr]

MIBs personality is totally different. He's a dark character while William is the traditional nice guy. Re watching the first episode MIB also slaps Delores around before the implied rape, which I think is shown a little bit more in depth in another episode..

 

in watching the first episode it's strange.. Why is Teddy on the train with the guests as they arrive? Did he escape the map? Maybe there's a timeline shift THERE, because Teddy is keeping his promise to Delores of coming back.. We don't know where he's coming back from, again he is on the train from the outside world. He's been out.. Is he connected to William? Is/was that in world storyline based on William and Delores' Westworld adventure? Is Ford making characters based on guests, to make them more realistic? And taking their story and adapting it to his world??

 

If there ARE different time lines, maybe MIB is Logan?? And he's constantly trying to get as far as William did? Maybe William died? I don't recall MIB, Logan, William and Teddy together in one episode. Anywho, I think it's deeper than different time lines.

 

 

As William goes deeper into the park, he becomes darker. He won't kill anyone, until he does, and he finds out he likes it. And he doesn't fuck until he does, and he likes Dolores. He's actually infatuated with her compared to his fianc?, and infatuated with the park as a whole. We learned that last episode. This is a plausible path that takes him to the point of being the MiB. You can clearly see time shifts when you have his theory in mind and rewatch. It makes perfect sense.

 

[Drew a Penalty]

MIBs personality is totally different. He's a dark character while William is the traditional nice guy. Re watching the first episode MIB also slaps Delores around before the implied rape, which I think is shown a little bit more in depth in another episode..

 

in watching the first episode it's strange.. Why is Teddy on the train with the guests as they arrive? Did he escape the map? Maybe there's a timeline shift THERE, because Teddy is keeping his promise to Delores of coming back.. We don't know where he's coming back from, again he is on the train from the outside world. He's been out.. Is he connected to William? Is/was that in world storyline based on William and Delores' Westworld adventure? Is Ford making characters based on guests, to make them more realistic? And taking their story and adapting it to his world??

 

If there ARE different time lines, maybe MIB is Logan?? And he's constantly trying to get as far as William did? Maybe William died? I don't recall MIB, Logan, William and Teddy together in one episode. Anywho, I think it's deeper than different time lines.

 

 

The train is just where Teddy is programmed to start. He starts on the train multiple times.

 

[The Dude]

The train is just where Teddy is programmed to start. He starts on the train multiple times.

 

Ahhh. Never noticed. Have to rewatch.

[The Dude]

As William goes deeper into the park, he becomes darker. He won't kill anyone, until he does, and he finds out he likes it. And he doesn't fuck until he does, and he likes Dolores. He's actually infatuated with her compared to his fianc?, and infatuated with the park as a whole. We learned that last episode. This is a plausible path that takes him to the point of being the MiB. You can clearly see time shifts when you have his theory in mind and rewatch. It makes perfect sense.

 

 

I don't get the feeling he LIKES killing at all. He likes Delores and how Westworld makes him invincible as compared to being a worm in the real world. He feels safe and no pressure. I just think MIB is a totally different kind of person than William. Attitude wise and how he carries himself. In the real world MIB sounds like a successful person, where as William suggested that he's quite the ordinary schmoe.. Unless he does some crazy drastic flip on personality in real life, I don't see a connection. Guess we will see.

 

[Guest]

I don't get the feeling he LIKES killing at all. He likes Delores and how Westworld makes him invincible as compared to being a worm in the real world. He feels safe and no pressure. I just think MIB is a totally different kind of person than William. Attitude wise and how he carries himself. In the real world MIB sounds like a successful person, where as William suggested that he's quite the ordinary schmoe.. Unless he does some crazy drastic flip on personality in real life, I don't see a connection. Guess we will see.

 

 

MIB has been coming to the park for 30 years. Each "visit" to the park has a maxium of 28 days, I believe. It's not quite clear how long William has been in the park during this first visito, but we've already seen a significant change in him. If he were to continue to go to the park regularly over 30 years, there's no telling where he might end up personality-wise. And that will no doubt bleed into his real life persona. Also, it's hinted that the MIB is some sort of Philanthrapist in his real life. That would kind of meld with William's personality.

 

[Pete]

 

I buy the MiB being Logan more than William. I think the Dude is spot on. He's trying to get to where William got.

 

Also he makes a reference to his company buying Westworld... Maybe that's why the staff says he can do whatever he wants.

 

[Jules]

Two trains of thought I'm on here...

 

MIBs personality is totally different. He's a dark character while William is the traditional nice guy. Re watching the first episode MIB also slaps Delores around before the implied rape, which I think is shown a little bit more in depth in another episode..

 

in watching the first episode it's strange.. Why is Teddy on the train with the guests as they arrive? Did he escape the map? Maybe there's a timeline shift THERE, because Teddy is keeping his promise to Delores of coming back.. We don't know where he's coming back from, again he is on the train from the outside world. He's been out.. Is he connected to William? Is/was that in world storyline based on William and Delores' Westworld adventure? Is Ford making characters based on guests, to make them more realistic? And taking their story and adapting it to his world??

 

If there ARE different time lines, maybe MIB is Logan?? And he's constantly trying to get as far as William did? Maybe William died? I don't recall MIB, Logan, William and Teddy together in one episode. Anywho, I think it's deeper than different time lines.

 

 

We are starting to see this shift in William though. He was once the nice guy, but he's now full on in love with Dolores instead of the woman he's going to marry, he feels alive since the adventure became insane and he's repeatedly killed. Also, when she is trying to be compassionate with the young Confederado boy on the shore, he just wants to move on and it's implied he chokes him out. No consoling, no water, he strangles him. There's also the notion that his family in the real world doesn't know who he became in Westworld, that he was always kind in the real world and almost played a role there. Logan seems like a real asshole and there's no hints that he has a family anywhere. It's been thirty years (and we knew that already) since Arnold's accident and the start of the park and no coincidence, MiB mentions 30 years of marriage and we know William tells Dolores he will soon be married after leaving Westworld.

 

 

I buy the MiB being Logan more than William. I think the Dude is spot on. He's trying to get to where William got.

 

Also he makes a reference to his company buying Westworld... Maybe that's why the staff says he can do whatever he wants.

 

 

He mentions their company, but it's his father's business and therefore it's also William's father-in-law and eventually his wife's business. If something bad happens to Logan in the next episodes and MiB's wife inherits the park and kills herself, that makes MiB the major shareholder of the park over anyone else we know. Also, Logan did not interact with the blonde host who checked William and Logan into the park in episode 2. That same host is the blonde woman who ends up being part of Wyatt's gang in the final scene of last night's episode. He encounters her and quips that he thought she'd be long retired, but that Ford never wants to waste a pretty face. He remembers her from an interaction implied to be in the distant past and we already know the only character in the show to have actually interacted with her was William. I felt like that solidified the idea that MiB is William, not Logan.

 

[Future]

Idk what the deal is, but the finale of this season better be fucking awesome because adding layer after layer after layer is making me lose interest.