Former Rangers on State of the Rebuild: All-in on Talent; Where's the Toughness?

Sorry guys, but any synopsis of why this team got as soft as they did includes mentioning Lemieux and DeAngelo for the brand of hockey they played and what they brought to the ice. It's not meant to beat a dead horse where everyone gets triggered about DeAngelo, one way or another.

 

The idea that you deal with some warts with these kinds of players is the point being made. We all have different lines for what constitutes as "too many warts". Is the line drawn at mockingly challenging a singular troll fan on Twitter, or being a dick to a goalie playing terribly? I don't know. Not for me it isn't. My threshold happens to be greater than that, but I can understand why many feel differently. What I don't think is debateable, however, is a guy like DeAngelo was the best sandpaper and one of the, if not the most, highest emotionally competitve guys on the team without sacrificing talent to play him. They need to replace it. Period.

100% agreed on needing to replace it. We were soft before losing DeAngelo and Lemiuex. We're a skill team with very few other dimensions, and can be outplayed pretty easily when our opponents don't let us make pretty passes and set up beautiful shots. I hope we add players that can bring grit and skill. They're rare and expensive, but worth it and it's what the team needs.

Some could argue this being the reason Colin Kapernick can't get a job. But others would say he just isn't that good of a Quarterback.

 

I think DeAngelo's history and reputation have been a known problem for a while. Not politically but how he handles himself altogether. Im sure his views in politics were as boisterous in person as they were online and it may have created a toxic environment in the locker room which boiled over and caused turmoil between teammates. Letting anything permeate a locker room that it outside of the team mantra to win a championship can derail a team which is employed to win games and win the ultimate trophy so when a players outside lives start to influence that culture then it is time to move on. This paired with the altercation that occurred post game with Georgiev and his inability to move on after being benched just show that the personality assessment that preceded his arrival here, rang true and action was taken. I think it is a culmination of all of these things which led to his dismissal.

But the team leaders said he was well liked in the locker room. Trouba and Zibanejad seemed saddened by his departure.. Do I have to find these quotes again? By all accounts DeAngelo was a fun guy in the locker room, who happened to be vocal towards players not playing well. Some call that leadership. But if you're MAGA, it's you being a complete asshole.

If Chris Kreider calls out Georgiev for shit goals, would I be accepted if Georgiev went after him? No. Kreider would be called captain.

But the team leaders said he was well liked in the locker room. Trouba and Zibanejad seemed saddened by his departure.. Do I have to find these quotes again? By all accounts DeAngelo was a fun guy in the locker room, who happened to be vocal towards players not playing well. Some call that leadership. But if you're MAGA, it's you being a complete asshole.

No, it's because being an asshole has nothing to do with being MAGA and everything to do with being an asshole. Because he's an asshole. It's well documented that he's an asshole. He's got a long career in which he's been suspended, been given up on by various coaches, and been denied opportunities that should go to players of his caliber because he's an asshole. He lost draft position because he's an asshole. He got moved around juniors because he's an asshole. The Lightning viewed him as a broken asset because he's an asshole. The Coyotes considered him a throw-in for Stepan because he's an asshole. And in hockey, being an asshole often means your talent doesn't do shit to help you.

If it looks like an asshole, shits like an asshole, smells like an asshole, it's an asshole.

If Chris Kreider calls out Georgiev for shit goals, would I be accepted if Georgiev went after him? No. Kreider would be called captain.

Dollars to donuts - a true leader wouldn't need to call him out after that goal. And I'd bet Kreider wouldn't have tried to "be a leader" by saying something that got him punched in the face.

No, but sometimes they don't get to continue playing the sport they love because they dared to have a voice. Here, take a knee and look left at Colin Kaepernick and right at Eric Reid.

 

It's astounding to me that we're endlessly fixated on "he liked Trump" and not endlessly fixated on "he was a childish asshole who treated his coaches like utter garbage, showed consistent lack of respect for management, and could not keep his personal shit off the ice"

 

It's even more astounding to me that we're continually dealing with this endless parade of Rangers fans who want to relitigate this like it's the fucking OJ trial while thinking the latter is acceptable enough to look past it, but think the former is somehow the last straw.

 

 

 

I think Lemieux was dealt because he's not a good hockey player. I'd guess he asked for a trade when he realized that he was perennially stuck in the fourth or fifth wing spot behind significantly better players.

Yeah but... Phil just said the reason (obviously his opinion) why was because of his Parler account and MAGA support. That's what I'm going off of.

Months ago it was his past issues as a "racist" for casually calling his white team mate the N word, in Jr's, then it was his abuse against officials in Jr's, then it was that he's an obvious locker room cancer, which was disproven with quotes by team leaders .

Now you're saying his political views went to the Ice???

As for Kaepernick. He had opportunities and he passed or his girlfriend ruined it by calling the Ravens racist.... The guy is and WAS too old to make a comeback as a starter, which is obviously what he wanted to be . He lost his starting gig with SF, before his kneeling.

Reid.. the guy is suing the league and refused to agree to a team policy to gain employment. These guys pretty much choose to not be employed.

Again, I was talking about how on ice stuff is put up with from other teams. Including slamming penalty box doors and aggressive penalties. That's all. I didn't bring MAGA, Twitter or off ice stuff into it Months ago anti DeAngelo people swore it was alllll about his on ice play as far as his discipline went. Now it's a different take apparently? So go on with the OJ trial....

No, it's because being an asshole has nothing to do with being MAGA and everything to do with being an asshole. Because he's an asshole. It's well documented that he's an asshole. He's got a long career in which he's been suspended, been given up on by various coaches, and been denied opportunities that should go to players of his caliber because he's an asshole. He lost draft position because he's an asshole. He got moved around juniors because he's an asshole. The Lightning viewed him as a broken asset because he's an asshole. The Coyotes considered him a throw-in for Stepan because he's an asshole. And in hockey, being an asshole often means your talent doesn't do shit to help you.

 

If it looks like an asshole, shits like an asshole, smells like an asshole, it's an asshole.

 

 

 

Dollars to donuts - a true leader wouldn't need to call him out after that goal. And I'd bet Kreider wouldn't have tried to "be a leader" by saying something that got him punched in the face.

Hahaha. Again. The locker room liked him. I don't care about his past. It isn't even that bad if you ask me. What should matter is that his teammates liked him THEY DID.

I'm guessing you think Lundqvist wasn't a leader? Fuckin guy was deemed unofficial captain for years... Lundqvist who BTW bitched everyone out ON ICE, if they blew coverage and hung him out to dry. Players call each other out for bad goals, missed assignments all the fucking time.

You think Messier never laid into Richter after bad game winners?

You're serious with this shit? It's not all pats on the back, "you'll get em next time "in ANY locker room.

One could make the argument that not dealing with DeAngelo sooner could have been the difference between firing our entire front office and getting suited up for game 6 against the Caps tomorrow.

 

All ballbusting aside - you're right to draw a line around "being emotionally competitive" - and it's something we need to bring in. Someone who gets angry enough and commands enough respect to rile up the bench to hit that next level - but not reckless.

I mean ball busting or not it's a legitimate question. What could they have done with 4.5 million in the offseason if they dumped DeAngelo for cheap (3rd-4th?) or just walled away? They could have maybe overpaid a Chara for a year. They could have kept Fast. They could have made Matt Martin a strong offer. Etc., etc.

Yeah but... Phil just said the reason (obviously his opinion) why was because of his Parler account and MAGA support. That's what I'm going off of.

 

Months ago it was his past issues as a "racist" for casually calling his white team mate the N word, in Jr's, then it was his abuse against officials in Jr's, then it was that he's an obvious locker room cancer, which was disproven with quotes by team leaders .

 

Now you're saying his political views went to the Ice???

 

As for Kaepernick. He had opportunities and he passed or his girlfriend ruined it by calling the Ravens racist.... The guy is and WAS too old to make a comeback as a starter, which is obviously what he wanted to be . He lost his starting gig with SF, before his kneeling.

 

Reid.. the guy is suing the league and refused to agree to a team policy to gain employment. These guys pretty much choose to not be employed.

 

Again, I was talking about how on ice stuff is put up with from other teams. Including slamming penalty box doors and aggressive penalties. That's all. I didn't bring MAGA, Twitter or off ice stuff into it Months ago anti DeAngelo people swore it was alllll about his on ice play as far as his discipline went. Now it's a different take apparently? So go on with the OJ trial....

So a guy who literally did nothing but knelt deserved losing tens of millions of dollars of contract because his girlfriend ruined it (nobody contacted him, BTW, he did not pass on opportunities), but a guy who has a long, documented history of being an asshole as described above is being made off to be a victim of literally anyone but himself because he's a Trump supporter?

Interesting take. Not one I'm terribly interested in continuing to engage in, though.

I mean ball busting or not it's a legitimate question. What could they have done with 4.5 million in the offseason if they dumped DeAngelo for cheap (3rd-4th?) or just walled away? They could have maybe overpaid a Chara for a year. They could have kept Fast. They could have made Matt Martin a strong offer. Etc., etc.

It's a hard sell to me that they win two more of those games either way, which makes it ballbusting in my eyes. But...yeah, I mean...butterfly effect and all, who knows?

When's the last time Matt Tkachuk publicly joined Parler out of "protest," weeks after declaring he was "done with politics" on the internet, only to make a near-daily effort to publicly "own the libs?"

 

Asking for an idiot named Tony.

AKA @NYRFan92360244

Sorry guys, but any synopsis of why this team got as soft as they did includes mentioning Lemieux and DeAngelo for the brand of hockey they played and what they brought to the ice. It's not meant to beat a dead horse where everyone gets triggered about DeAngelo, one way or another.

 

The idea that you deal with some warts with these kinds of players is the point being made. We all have different lines for what constitutes as "too many warts". Is the line drawn at mockingly challenging a singular troll fan on Twitter, or being a dick to a goalie playing terribly? I don't know. Not for me it isn't. My threshold happens to be greater than that, but I can understand why many feel differently. What I don't think is debateable, however, is a guy like DeAngelo was the best sandpaper and one of the, if not the most, highest emotionally competitve guys on the team without sacrificing talent to play him. They need to replace it. Period.

This is pretty clearly correct, and no matter how polarizing a guy or pair of guys are, they clearly brought something that needs to be replaced.

Really re-assuring to read some of those comments about Laf, I think in a few years he will be that extremely skilled/physical guy with leadership qualities. He's already big and by all accounts still growing. One of the biggest things that stood out on draft night was how massive his dad was, lol.

He does have some history of toeing the line too and I think he was suspended at least once in Juniors for some questionable hits, and obviously you don't want him out there throwing dirty hits, but if someone is capable of doing it it shows they have that edge you want in their game.

It will be interesting if Chytil and Kakko can get a little meaner, both have the size to impose themselves on others, but I doubt that have it in their DNA

I read it once and right away Player C is Messier. I thought about Graves making a comment, but he's part of MSG and I don't think he'd get in on the debate.

 

 

And his comment on Zibby OUCH afraid

this wasnt mess. smells like hays to me. i heard mess, comments. was way more eloquent.

Concede Player C is right about a great deal here. And reiterate by every account DeAngelo being dumped had nothing to do with his politics. Yet DeAngelo is a special case of self sabotage by a guy who has spent his whole career being insubordinate by simply not shutting the fuck up. Again; Quinn may be a college coach who did not appreciate DeAngelo's opinion, but he was not the first and probably won't be the last coach to tell Tony D to please shut the fuck up already. And recall when they needed someone to step up vs. the Canes last summer, DeAngelo wasn't the guy then, either. Being an obnoxious loudmouth dickhead is not the same thing as grit and sandpaper.

Bugg's spot on. politics had very little to do with this. it was a small piece of a greater picture. second to last sentence says enough for me. guy was an immature jersey asshole. sorry but hard for a ny boy not to shade nj... look at their driving skills for j sakes.

we will get the grit and effectiveness. just keep developing the skill. still have a shit ton of picks in a year where you can score big value due to covid.

So a guy who literally did nothing but knelt deserved losing tens of millions of dollars of contract because his girlfriend ruined it (nobody contacted him, BTW, he did not pass on opportunities), but a guy who has a long, documented history of being an asshole as described above is being made off to be a victim of literally anyone but himself because he's a Trump supporter?

 

Interesting take. Not one I'm terribly interested in continuing to engage in, though.

He was negotiating with Baltimore. Hence offer.. Denver offered him a contract in 16.

Seattle brought him in for an interview, but didn't work him out nor offered him anything.

Are we going to get political here on what Kaep did? It was a little more than kneeling. More like anti police, race baiting depending on how you want to look at it. We doing this here?

As for DeAngelos degree of assholeness as a kid. That's debatable. The N word was used by many kids of varying races in that time. White kids dressed like black people and adopted parts of their culture (like everyone THOUGHT was ok, apparently not) by listening to black artists and talking like that culture. So, I don't really hold it against a 15/16/17 year old kid for using that word towards a white team mate at that time. In some areas, that was deemed fitting in... The ref thing? I don't know. That can be construed. What if he just got in his face and bumped into him. That's abuse of an official. Happens in baseball and is often not really done purposely, yet still draws an ejection and a fine....

Look, I can tell just by looking at DeAngelo that I probably wouldn't be friends with him. He's definitely douchie, in that jock kind of way..But I'd imagine most athletes under 25 are that way. Watching old videos of Vesey, Hayes, and Skjei in their NY apartment screamed douchie.

.

Sorry guys, but any synopsis of why this team got as soft as they did includes mentioning Lemieux and DeAngelo for the brand of hockey they played and what they brought to the ice. It's not meant to beat a dead horse where everyone gets triggered about DeAngelo, one way or another.

 

The idea that you deal with some warts with these kinds of players is the point being made. We all have different lines for what constitutes as "too many warts". Is the line drawn at mockingly challenging a singular troll fan on Twitter, or being a dick to a goalie playing terribly? I don't know. Not for me it isn't. My threshold happens to be greater than that, but I can understand why many feel differently. What I don't think is debateable, however, is a guy like DeAngelo was the best sandpaper and one of the, if not the most, highest emotionally competitve guys on the team without sacrificing talent to play him. They need to replace it. Period.

Nah, there's no need to apologize. You're right. The problem is DeAngelo's name always invites the same relitigation attempts to whitewash why he's not here anymore. It's just annoying as hell to constantly bat this stuff down.

Fact is, even with DeAngelo and Lemieux, the Rangers still lack grit. They still lack size. They still lack the proper coaching technique and playing style that would lend itself to playoff victory. It just underscores how badly they need to inject muscle into this lanky body of theirs. Gotta come out of next season like Cap in the machine but with Winter Soldier killer instinct. Wolverine, basically.

Nah, there's no need to apologize. You're right. The problem is DeAngelo's name always invites the same relitigation attempts to whitewash why he's not here anymore. It's just annoying as hell to constantly bat this stuff down.

 

Fact is, even with DeAngelo and Lemieux, the Rangers still lack grit. They still lack size. They still lack the proper coaching technique and playing style that would lend itself to playoff victory. It just underscores how badly they need to inject muscle into this lanky body of theirs. Gotta come out of next season like Cap in the machine but with Winter Soldier killer instinct. Wolverine, basically.

 

Absolutely. DeAngelo and Lemieux were like over eager chihauas. They're annoying, bark a lot, capable of nipping just enough to say ow, but if any of the rottweilers come rolling through, they will get their necks wrung. A chihaua is good to have, but it's better when you've got a rottweiler to watch over the little guy too.

Absolutely. DeAngelo and Lemieux were like over eager chihauas. They're annoying, bark a lot, capable of nipping just enough to say ow, but if any of the rottweilers come rolling through, they will get their necks wrung. A chihaua is good to have, but it's better when you've got a rottweiler to watch over the little guy too.

Yup. My favorite were the Facebook and Twitter fans saying if DeAngelo was on the team, Wilson wouldn't have rag dolled Panarin like that. They're effectively the exact same size. If DeAngelo was on the ice, he'd have been the one thrown onto his head. LOL.

Absolutely. DeAngelo and Lemieux were like over eager chihauas. They're annoying, bark a lot, capable of nipping just enough to say ow, but if any of the rottweilers come rolling through, they will get their necks wrung. A chihaua is good to have, but it's better when you've got a rottweiler to watch over the little guy too.

Chihuahua > Pussy cat.

Again. Attitude, swagger, and playing style are what is what is needed. Not a goon, not a guy that will beat up Tom Wilson.

Grit. Guys that will hit someone, guys that play with any kind of edge and fire. Honestly who the fuck was going to be on the ice when that happened? Maybe Trouba? Is he going to pound Wilson? Kreider? Lol.

The Chihuahuas would get revenge. The Chihuahuas would probably jump off the bench to get to Wilson after it happened.

The Chihuahuas helped players feel a bit more relaxed on the ice. When you have players that play with a bit of sandpaper, it changes the room. It changes the attitude. The Rangers didn't look scared last season. Why that chathis season and even more so when Trouba went down. Is Trouba a heavyweight? No. So stop this bullshit that anyone with grit has to kick everyone's ass.

Gimme Theo Fleury, Dino Cicerelli, Doug Gilmour, Esa Tikkanen types, when you can't give me Wendl Clarke, Shane Corson , Brendan Shanahan or Rick Tocchet.

They make a difference. I shouldn't have to explain.

Yup. My favorite were the Facebook and Twitter fans saying if DeAngelo was on the team, Wilson wouldn't have rag dolled Panarin like that. They're effectively the exact same size. If DeAngelo was on the ice, he'd have been the one thrown onto his head. LOL.

Had he been thrown on his head, does he skate off like a little bitch or does he drop the gloves and go batshit to go after him, win or lose?

Guess we forgot last year when Zibanejad got flattened and DeAngelo didn't back down to Johnston. But Chihuahua..

Chihuahua > Pussy cat.

 

Again. Attitude, swagger, and playing style are what is what is needed. Not a goon, not a guy that will beat up Tom Wilson.

 

Grit. Guys that will hit someone, guys that play with any kind of edge and fire. Honestly who the fuck was going to be on the ice when that happened? Maybe Trouba? Is he going to pound Wilson? Kreider? Lol.

 

The Chihuahuas would get revenge. The Chihuahuas would probably jump off the bench to get to Wilson after it happened.

 

The Chihuahuas helped players feel a bit more relaxed on the ice. When you have players that play with a bit of sandpaper, it changes the room. It changes the attitude. The Rangers didn't look scared last season. Why that chathis season and even more so when Trouba went down. Is Trouba a heavyweight? No. So stop this bullshit that anyone with grit has to kick everyone's ass.

 

Gimme Theo Fleury, Dino Cicerelli, Doug Gilmour, Esa Tikkanen types, when you can't give me Wendl Clarke, Shane Corson , Brendan Shanahan or Rick Tocchet.

 

They make a difference. I shouldn't have to explain.

I agree with most of this man. But in addition to playing with an edge/fire/raised compete level, I just think they need someone who is capable of wringing necks when the time comes. I know it won't necessarily stop Wilson from being Wilson, but we shouldn't have to wait 2 days for a response. It took the entire team getting fucking blasted by fans and everyone in the media for not having a backbone in retaliation. I hope they were embarrassed. They deserved to be. The bell should have been answered in the same game, and that's when it helps to have a guy you can send out there to say this shit stops now. And, no, Kreider wouldn't have done dick. Trouba unlikely either. Lindgren maybe.

https://theathletic.com/2602469/2021/05/21/former-rangers-on-the-state-of-the-rebuild-all-in-on-the-talent-but-not-the-chaos-and-wheres-the-toughness/

 

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For everyone with a subscription to the Athletic, tell me who you think Players A through F are:

 

I'll go first:

 

Player A: Sean Avery

Player B: Ryan Callahan

Player C: Mark Messier

Player D: Adam Graves

Player E: Dan Girardi

Player F: Kevin Hayes

After reading part 1, and thinking of who speaks the way the comments written, I'll go with

A- Anson Carter

B- Scott Gomez

C- Avery

D- Richter

E- Leetch

F- Staal