Pete Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Let's say Z is out in the 6-8 week range. We all know we're lacking center depth right now. We all know it's near impossible to make the playoffs if you're out on Thanksgiving, let alone Christmas. If you're the GM, what do you do? Personally, I'd: 1. Send Kakko and Fox down. Neither will benefit from racking up the losses. Kakko would really benefit from less pressure and playing with Chytil. 2. Just roll with Lias as the 1 or 2C. How much worse can it get? 3. Move Kreider and Fast sooner rather than later. See if Fast would like to come back as a UFA. 4. Start a coaching search. Have to start thinking Quinn isn't the guy for this team. He takes a timeout yesterday and not one person is looking at him while he's yelling. Not a good sign. 5. Lose, a lot. 6. Draft Lafreniere or Byfield. 7. Try again next year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodka Drunkenski Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 This is my plan even if Zib isn?t hurt for that long. I was giving Quinn some time but I don?t see any type of structure to this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsm7302 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Agree with all of the above minus Fast. Apparently he carries the identity this team should be striving for.....but they aren't striving for it. Quinn, thanks for the effort but hmmmm....Trouba for Tortorella? Not that we were going for it this year but these years are culture building...need to the coach to lead it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LindG1000 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Let's say Z is out in the 6-8 week range. We all know we're lacking center depth right now. We all know it's near impossible to make the playoffs if you're out on Thanksgiving, let alone Christmas. If you're the GM, what do you do? Personally, I'd: 1. Send Kakko and Fox down. Neither will benefit from racking up the losses. Kakko would really benefit from less pressure and playing with Chytil. 2. Just roll with Lias as the 1 or 2C. How much worse can it get? 3. Move Kreider and Fast sooner rather than later. See if Fast would like to come back as a UFA. 4. Start a coaching search. Have to start thinking Quinn isn't the guy for this team. He takes a timeout yesterday and not one person is looking at him while he's yelling. Not a good sign. 5. Lose, a lot. 6. Draft Lafreniere or Byfield. 7. Try again next year. May be a hot take, but we're going to probably do 3, 5, and 7 (and with some luck, 6) whether Zib is healthy or not. I think bringing in Trouba, Panarin, Kakko, Fox - the expectations get high, but at the end of the day we needed Fox, Hajek, Kakko, Kravtsov, Chytil, and Andersson to answer the bell. When your season hinges on six players who have a total of around 100 games of NA pro experience and an average age of 19 or so, too many question marks exist to set the expectations so high. They're kids, they'll learn. On the upside, at this rate we're almost assuredly going to draft our future 1c/2c. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted October 28, 2019 Author Share Posted October 28, 2019 May be a hot take, but we're going to probably do 3, 5, and 7 (and with some luck, 6) whether Zib is healthy or not. I think bringing in Trouba, Panarin, Kakko, Fox - the expectations get high, but at the end of the day we needed Fox, Hajek, Kakko, Kravtsov, Chytil, and Andersson to answer the bell. When your season hinges on six players who have a total of around 100 games of NA pro experience and an average age of 19 or so, too many question marks exist to set the expectations so high. They're kids, they'll learn. On the upside, at this rate we're almost assuredly going to draft our future 1c/2c.Yea, I guess I should have explained a little more on 3... Move them asap. Don't wait for TDL. Ship them out imminently. Find a playoff team having trouble scoring or with a longer term injury and send them Kreider. Even if it's Pittsburgh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LindG1000 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Yea, I guess I should have explained a little more on 3... Move them asap. Don't wait for TDL. Ship them out imminently. Find a playoff team having trouble scoring or with a longer term injury and send them Kreider. Even if it's Pittsburgh. I understood what you meant there. I think we should whether Zib is healthy or not. Kreider's playing himself out of his value, and Fast is to Quinn what Carlos Pena was to Art Howe in Moneyball. I'd love to see us move Kreider to a team with a hot start that should regress to the mean (Anaheim, maybe Buffalo, maybe Vancouver) and see if we can't get a second crack at the lottery, but I have to imagine that teams are more likely to move prospects than picks at this time of year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 I'm not pulling the trigger on Quinn yet. If anything, I force him to use my roster (Moneyball, style). I like his message, but he's using the wrong horses. He needs to learn and be a bit flexible. If not, you have to bringing in more bottom 6 guys to fit the style he wants. And if thats the case, you dont trade away Kreider and Fast - 1) Because they fit his style, 2.) because whats the point in bringing in more youth that wont play? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangersIn7 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Biggest thing for me is two-fold 1) Quinn being the guy or not. It’s still far too early and in all reality, on no planet is this roster in my opinion any better than about an 85 point, also ran type of roster, despite the additions they made. There were going to be, and clearly are significant holes, a real lack of depth, and lots of key spots and ice time soaked up by young and inexperienced players. That said, Quinn has not pushed the right buttons seemingly at all, and I too was alarmed by his guys seeming to ignore/tune out. I’m hardly ready to pull the ripcord on him, and honestly it would probably have to get worse or have them show zero improvement and have a total fracture of the coach-player relationship for him to not last through the season, but at this point it’s hard to not have some doubts and acknowledge them. While I like the culture of accountability he’s trying to press, I wonder heavily about the message and whether that is landing and I’m also very concerned about the juggling. While it’s required to an extent with a group like this given the youth, inexperience and holes, at some point a coach has to just stick with certain combos in certain spots and roll with them. Sometimes that chemistry you want isn’t naturally occurring and guys need time together without fear of being separated to build that connection. 2) Really make this about the kids and their proper development. The point on having guys like Kakko and Fox being in the AHL has validity if only that it shelters them from losing a lot and in Hartford, where the results say that the message and culture has changed entirely, maybe winning and succeeding and playing a ton in major roles is what does it. Another high lottery pick helps them big time in the long run, and personally, I think they actually need to add another piece like that that is homegrown and from very high in the draft. There is no doubt in that. But it also means that Quinn probably doesn’t see year 3 and any of the guys that you’re moving forward with are exposed to lots of losses and a brutal season, which isn’t good, especially for the younger guys in that core. Obviously we aren’t privy to what is going on in the dressing room nor do we know what the internal expectations were. But things don’t look good right now. Too early to cut losses or make a drastic set of alterations in desperation with what is a non-playoff roster, but re-evaluation at this time is definitely fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 I'm not pulling the trigger on Quinn yet. If anything, I force him to use my roster (Moneyball, style). I like his message, but he's using the wrong horses. He needs to learn and be a bit flexible. If not, you have to bringing in more bottom 6 guys to fit the style he wants. And if thats the case, you dont trade away Kreider and Fast - 1) Because they fit his style, 2.) because whats the point in bringing in more youth that wont play? That's the problem, though. In order to give him the "right" horses, you're moving away from the most talented roster possible. You're basically asking for the New York Islanders' roster. I'd rather lose Quinn and hire Boudreau when the Wild eventually fire him and coach to the strength of the roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted October 28, 2019 Author Share Posted October 28, 2019 I'm not pulling the trigger on Quinn yet. If anything, I force him to use my roster (Moneyball, style). I like his message, but he's using the wrong horses. He needs to learn and be a bit flexible. If not, you have to bringing in more bottom 6 guys to fit the style he wants. And if thats the case, you dont trade away Kreider and Fast - 1) Because they fit his style, 2.) because whats the point in bringing in more youth that wont play?I don't have an issue with his message, but his delivery doesn't seem to resonate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Zib is listed as "day to day", and Quinn said pointedly he did not sustain a concussion. Looked like ribs, or sternum or shoulder. Crazy idea; Tortarella might like to have Kreider back. Kreider/Milano, straight up, guy who ,loves going to the net, even if he isn't a physical guy? We have too many guys who don't shoot, can we get somebody who likes to score goals? Change of scenery for both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LindG1000 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 I don't have an issue with his message, but his delivery doesn't seem to resonate. Hard to say. As tough as it's been with Andersson and Kakko and Chytil, he seems to have unlocked Buch and DeAngelo, and at least figured out Fox and Strome. Push to shove, yeah, I want him to "unlock" the first three Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted October 28, 2019 Author Share Posted October 28, 2019 Hard to say. As tough as it's been with Andersson and Kakko and Chytil, he seems to have unlocked Buch and DeAngelo, and at least figured out Fox and Strome. Push to shove, yeah, I want him to "unlock" the first threeThink I said it in another thread, but he took the timeout last night and did a bunch of yelling. No one looked at him. They didn't look at each other. They stared into space. Not a good sign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LindG1000 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Think I said it in another thread, but he took the timeout last night and did a bunch of yelling. No one looked at him. They didn't look at each other. They stared into space. Not a good sign. I missed yesterdays game - when was the timeout? If it was "we're down 5-1, we damn well fuckin know what you're screaming about", I'm less worried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long live the King Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Think I said it in another thread, but he took the timeout last night and did a bunch of yelling. No one looked at him. They didn't look at each other. They stared into space. Not a good sign. If you can get Quinn to change his approach then I'd call all the kids up after trading Kreider, Strome, and Fast. Let Chytil and Kakko play on the first line with Panarin. Make Lias, Buch and Kravtsov the second line. Fuck winning, stop yelling. Actually teach them things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slobberknocker Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 it doesn't look like playing time is earned on this team. his message needs to fair to all. said it in another thread and the timeout brings it up again but he may well lose this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangersIn7 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Obviously they’re playing well right now so it’s not a glaring need and I’m beating a dead horse, but I still think Kreider fits in Colorado. Loved that that team added Kadri,Donskoi and Burakovsky. But neither Donskoi nor Burakovsky are top-6 players IMO. At least not full-time. They’re playing in those spots a lot, but only getting 14-15 minutes a night a piece. They need another winger that legitimately belongs up there and can play in the top-6 range of 16-18 minutes a night or better Kreider could fit very well with Kadri. Or even create a situation wherein they play Kreider with MacKinnon and Rantanen when he comes back and drop Landeskog down with Kadri, though they’d need their heads examined if they broke up that line, which is one of the 2-3 best lines in the world when healthy. Plus Kreider gives them the depth they’re looking for so it probably negates that need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LindG1000 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Obviously they’re playing well right now so it’s not a glaring need and I’m beating a dead horse, but I still think Kreider fits in Colorado. Loved that that team added Kadri,Donskoi and Burakovsky. But neither Donskoi nor Burakovsky are top-6 players IMO. At least not full-time. They’re playing in those spots a lot, but only getting 14-15 minutes a night a piece. They need another winger that legitimately belongs up there and can play in the top-6 range of 16-18 minutes a night or better Kreider could fit very well with Kadri. Or even create a situation wherein they play Kreider with MacKinnon and Rantanen when he comes back and drop Landeskog down with Kadri, though they’d need their heads examined if they broke up that line, which is one of the 2-3 best lines in the world when healthy. Plus Kreider gives them the depth they’re looking for so it probably negates that need. I'm not sure Colorado's a fit anymore. Kadri, Donskoi and Burakovsky are pacing to be top tier mid six options. Burakovsky is pacing almost 70 points right now - may not hold, but if those three combine for, say, 70 goals (23 apiece, give take)? That's a damn good supporting case for Mackinnon, Rantanen, and Lando. I'm not sure what adding Kreider does for them anymore. It gives them a big body on the PP2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunny Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Kreider for Pool Party and a 3rd. Edmonton's bottom six is worse than ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangersIn7 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 I'm not sure Colorado's a fit anymore. Kadri, Donskoi and Burakovsky are pacing to be top tier mid six options. Burakovsky is pacing almost 70 points right now - may not hold, but if those three combine for, say, 70 goals (23 apiece, give take)? That's a damn good supporting case for Mackinnon, Rantanen, and Lando. I'm not sure what adding Kreider does for them anymore. It gives them a big body on the PP2? They can keep Burakovsky up there. I should have clarified that. He’s the better offensive player of the 2. But he’s also been playing the right wing. You keep him there and play Kreider on the left wing at his natural spot. Landeskog-MacKinnon-Rantanen Kreider-Kadri-Burakovsky That’s a pretty damn good looking top-6 And then their bottom-6 looks good with some combination of Jost, Donskoi, Compher, Colin Wilson, Bellemare, Nichushkin, Calvert, and Nieto That’s an excellent group of 14 forwards. Maybe even Stanley Cup caliber. Kreider probably costs them their first rounder. But it’s a low first rounder in all likelihood. Probably worth it for a team with Cup aspirations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted October 28, 2019 Author Share Posted October 28, 2019 They can keep Burakovsky up there. I should have clarified that. He’s the better offensive player of the 2. But he’s also been playing the right wing. You keep him there and play Kreider on the left wing at his natural spot. Landeskog-MacKinnon-Rantanen Kreider-Kadri-Burakovsky That’s a pretty damn good looking top-6 And then their bottom-6 looks good with some combination of Jost, Donskoi, Compher, Colin Wilson, Bellemare, Nichushkin, Calvert, and Nieto That’s an excellent group of 14 forwards. Maybe even Stanley Cup caliber. Kreider probably costs them their first rounder. But it’s a low first rounder in all likelihood. Probably worth it for a team with Cup aspirations Plus the just got Ottawa's high pick. Does anyone know how long Rantaanen is out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangersIn7 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Plus the just got Ottawa's high pick. Does anyone know how long Rantaanen is out? Unless there is new information or an update, all they’ve said on Rantanen is that it’s lower body and he’s week to week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Plus the just got Ottawa's high pick. Does anyone know how long Rantaanen is out? Suspect the problem with Kreider now is he's a misfit toy. Goes deeper than a coach or an organization. He's never broken 30 goals, despite great size and speed. But he hasn't put it together. Somebody will take a chance, but they're not paying much more than a low pick or with their own jelly-squirting water pistol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Kreider for Pool Party and a 3rd. Edmonton's bottom six is worse than ours. Or St. Louis now that Tarasenko is out basically the rest of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangersIn7 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Suspect the problem with Kreider now is he's a misfit toy. Goes deeper than a coach or an organization. He's never broken 30 goals, despite great size and speed. But he hasn't put it together. Somebody will take a chance, but they're not paying much more than a low pick or with their own jelly-squirting water pistol. He just needs to get it going It may work out better for them when they trade him if his 20-30 game disappearing act comes now as opposed to later. But regardless his history warrants a 1st in return. They shouldn’t take less than that unless they absolutely have to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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