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Giacomin
03-08-2018, 06:32 PM
Some of the shit I've been thinking about. Add yours, comment away.

1a. Draft - Regardless of position or current perceived organizational needs, SELECT THE BEST PLAYER. Haven't we learned not to pass up Fowler for Rath, because we just drafted a puck moving dman the year prior? With a top 10 pick, get the elite talent, don't get cute. Later in the draft, again just finding good NHL talent is tough enough to not worry about position.

1b. What does that mean for this draft? - If we pick #1 we take a Dman. If we pick 2-4 we take a forward. Picks 5-9 are loaded with dman, unless the Rangers like Wahlstrom. Do not underrate Boqvist or Bouchard, either could rise into the top 5. After that, anything can happen, but a lot of Dmen are going in the 1st.

2a. Can't force a #1C - Trading 3-5 of our absolute best assets just to get a 1C, is not practical. For starters, Edm is not trading Leon. Johansson and Duchene and O'Reily are a level below and were only available due to ill will or previous contract issues. Usually it takes a #1 D to get a #1 C, from another very unbalanced team. We are not overweight on D with only one young proven Dman.

2b. No reason to trade Skjei - an over payment is not coming back to make it worth it. A #1 C is not available or planable.. We NEED D, anyway, not another huge hole we can't fill. No one else is close to a top 4, in defensive abilities. Skjei will improve. He fits the profile of talented, young, big and fast. He plays a complete game. D'Angelo is the only other dman with a spot somewhere. Shatty will get to talk to mgmt and the new coach and go from there. Hopefully he is fine with being traded.

3. Brenden Smith - leave him in Hartford!! So what if the kids stink, pay the price and have an epiphany. After the season, tell him to come to camp in the best shape of his life. Work on your hockey too, impress the new coach. Fresh start, make the best of it. Fuck this up and you're done.

4. Hajek and Howden - Both should start the season in Hartford. That should be the plan, no exceptions. Let them get at least a taste of proper development and coaching to help them be a little more ready for MSG. The Rangers and the fans should want them in the A for most of the season, unless they are crushing it.

5. Spooner or Zuc - Possible one stays as our playmaking winger while the other is our trade asset near the draft. We are crowded at C, but Spooner likes the wing. Like Zuc, he has a knack for nifty passes that result in scoring chances. He is younger, should be cheaper and versatile. It could come down to whoever is the best trade asset. Shatty + Spooner/Zuc could get us something we really need. Shatty and Zuc for Josh Manson and a contract shed? That would give us a great top pair righty for Skjei and solve another major problem.

6. Namestnikov - Love him, plays a 200' game at a high level. He really has everything, but size A bit like RNH, but quicker. Zibs/Names is a better 1-2 than Zib/Step or Step/Brass. With Hayes at the 3C and Lias/Chytil, we should be much better up the middle next year and down the road.

7. Lias/Chytil - either could play W. The 4C role is open, if we ice a fourth line with 2 decent players like Fast or Grabs. Neither should be penciled in until each proves he is ready and would benefit from the jump. If one or both tear it up in camp/preseason then we give them some NHL burn.

josh
03-08-2018, 06:46 PM
1a - last year we picked best players for the team, not best talent available. I'd like them to make the best pick, taking into consideration ages, position, team needs, etc. I don't disagree with taking the best player, but if its borderline, I take the best potential Ranger

2 - dont force the C thing, but dont be afraid either. Cant dismiss a Tavares or Seguin (next offseason) being available, while its the biggest hole on the team.

3 - I think we will need him next season. Terrible signing, but we need depth dmen. Hopefully he finds his game and can contribute. Cant afford a buyout, and I dont see many teams taking his contract, or him waiving

4 - yes
5 - yes. I do want to see Zucc w/Tavares, for fun. Almost wish NHL had FA prior to the draft.
6 - yes
7 - I think Chytil moves to wing, or more likely to do so. I see him being a better winger than Lias. I love Lias as a depth Center to start. Seems like he will be able to develop his game in the bottom 6, whereas I dont see Chytil doing such.

ThirtyONE
03-08-2018, 07:08 PM
1a - last year we picked best players for the team, not best talent available. I'd like them to make the best pick, taking into consideration ages, position, team needs, etc. I don't disagree with taking the best player, but if its borderline, I take the best potential Ranger

2 - dont force the C thing, but dont be afraid either. Cant dismiss a Tavares or Seguin (next offseason) being available, while its the biggest hole on the team.

3 - I think we will need him next season. Terrible signing, but we need depth dmen. Hopefully he finds his game and can contribute. Cant afford a buyout, and I dont see many teams taking his contract, or him waiving

4 - yes
5 - yes. I do want to see Zucc w/Tavares, for fun. Almost wish NHL had FA prior to the draft.
6 - yes
7 - I think Chytil moves to wing, or more likely to do so. I see him being a better winger than Lias. I love Lias as a depth Center to start. Seems like he will be able to develop his game in the bottom 6, whereas I dont see Chytil doing such.

Not sure this is true anymore. Every position is a hole (except goalie).

Agree with everything else though. Draft talent. Figure out where they play later. You never know what the team will look like 2-3 years from when these kids are ready.

Giacomin
03-08-2018, 08:21 PM
1a - last year we picked best players for the team, not best talent available. I'd like them to make the best pick, taking into consideration ages, position, team needs, etc. I don't disagree with taking the best player, but if its borderline, I take the best potential Ranger

We disagree regarding position. Really hope mgmt agrees with me. Not sure about last year, but this year I want the most dynamic, highest upside skaters, in the first 2 rounds. They should all be 18, I'll give you that. And we don't want character issues.

In retrospect, last year (although satisfied with our kids) I'd take Mittelstadt and Tolvanen. I think the Rangers went for Lias once they could not trade to get Makar, plus Petersson and Glass went off the board. Why wouldn't Mittelstadt and Tolvanen not be the best potential Rangers?


2 - dont force the C thing, but dont be afraid either. Cant dismiss a Tavares or Seguin (next offseason) being available, while its the biggest hole on the team.

I try not to think about JT right now. Good for my mindset. :)
What's up with Seguin? If he is on the block, won't he cost us 3 prime assets like Zib, Kreids +? With McD gone, I feel like we'll have to find our own top C.


7 - I think Chytil moves to wing, or more likely to do so. I see him being a better winger than Lias. I love Lias as a depth Center to start. Seems like he will be able to develop his game in the bottom 6, whereas I dont see Chytil doing such.

Exactly, good points. It seems fine to start Lias at the 4C, but with Chytil I'd rather push him into a top 9 wing role. Not sure exactly why. He reminds me a little of the center Peter Stastny, but I'm OK with starting at wing and him learning his defensive responsibilities gradually like Babcock is doing with Nylander and Marner.

Sod16
03-08-2018, 08:37 PM
I don't see Zuc and Spooner as an either or proposition. I think we keep Zuc because we're not going to get anything for him. At this point, at $4.5m he is overpaid. I suspect the reason he wasn't traded at the deadline was because there were no decent offers for him, and that was at a point where he would have commanded more than in the off season. Keep Spooner because he's playing well here. Not much more complicated than that.

Giacomin
03-08-2018, 09:12 PM
I don't see Zuc and Spooner as an either or proposition. I think we keep Zuc because we're not going to get anything for him. At this point, at $4.5m he is overpaid. I suspect the reason he wasn't traded at the deadline was because there were no decent offers for him, and that was at a point where he would have commanded more than in the off season. Keep Spooner because he's playing well here. Not much more complicated than that.

I agree that it does not have to be an either/or thing. However, I'm not sure there weren't offers for Zuc. It is possible that unless there was the right offer, we were going to hold off on Zuc. Spooner performing on the wing, could add options though.

As fans, when we discuss trading one of Hayes or Spooner at the draft, we have to include Zuc. Since I do not expect many trades, I'm keeping Hayes for various reasons. Therefore if we need trade bait, Spooner makes Zuc a little redundant. They are both playmakers, not power forwards, nor D stalwarts. One can be a trade asset and I'd add Shatty to the mix, if there is interest.

If Spooner or Zuc can't net us a real top prospect, a top 4 pick in the draft or a Josh Manson like Dman, then I'm fine keeping both.

Sod16
03-08-2018, 09:39 PM
If Spooner or Zuc can't net us a real top prospect, a top 4 pick in the draft or a Josh Manson like Dman, then I'm fine keeping both.

I think it's safe to say they can't.

I remember thinking Zucc was our best forward on the ice during the 2014 finals. That seems like a long long time ago.

Giacomin
03-08-2018, 11:07 PM
I think it's safe to say they can't.

I'm not so sure. The McD trade happened during the last hour of the deadline. It almost didn't. Would that mean no one was interested in McD? Obviously he had value. Who is to say mgmt had their hands full and were not concentrating on moving Zuc. No offer tipped the scale. Maybe mgmt thinks Zuc is open to resigning here at another discount. Maybe year to year, didn't he hint that once? There was more urgency to make the other moves. Plus, if the focus is a single predraft trade with any team in the league, expect options to open up.

As for Spoons, he's raising his value daily, at this point. Now, I'm not saying either gets you a top pick. But combined with another pick and/or Shatty and maybe we can get a team who has been picking high to exchange picks with us. Or an A prospect who is not quite ready. Or a proven righty defensive Dman who is young and can skate great.


I remember thinking Zucc was our best forward on the ice during the 2014 finals. That seems like a long long time ago.

Or the next year, until he took a puck to the head.

ThirtyONE
03-09-2018, 02:11 AM
He still is our best forward. Sadly our best forward only has 45 pts. meanwhile Kucherov has almost double that. Just shows you where we're at talent-wise.

Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc
03-09-2018, 03:37 AM
He still is our best forward. Sadly our best forward only has 45 pts. meanwhile Kucherov has almost double that. Just shows you where we're at talent-wise.

No excuse obviously, that's just sad. But with Kreids, Zib and Buch healthy all season like Kuch and Stammer Im sure atleast one of them would have more then 45 points atm.

NYRangers723
03-09-2018, 06:34 AM
No excuse obviously, that's just sad. But with Kreids, Zib and Buch healthy all season like Kuch and Stammer Im sure atleast one of them would have more then 45 points atm.


yeah kreiders injury definetly had a trickle down effect on the lineup. That line specifically could have done some real damage for those 25 games he was out BUT maybe it works out in the longrun

Gravesy
03-09-2018, 07:27 AM
Personally I don't think anyone in their right mind would trade one of the top 15 picks in this draft for Zuc or Spooner + futures.
It is simply too deep talent wise and you're giving away far too much potential for not enough return.

josh
03-09-2018, 08:34 AM
Personally I don't think anyone in their right mind would trade one of the top 15 picks in this draft for Zuc or Spooner + futures.
It is simply too deep talent wise and you're giving away far too much potential for not enough return.

When its deep like this, you might see teams willing to fall back a few spots for an extra pick, player or prospect.

Bugg
03-09-2018, 08:44 AM
Playing McLeod at all while Lettieri stays in Hartford makes no sense.

Gravesy
03-09-2018, 09:13 AM
When its deep like this, you might see teams willing to fall back a few spots for an extra pick, player or prospect.

Maybe, but there seems to be more or less universal agreement that there is a significant drop-off in quality between the proper top prospects (1 through 13/14) and the rest. I can't see anyone trading those picks for a package of Zuc or Spooner + futures. Depends how you define top prospects I guess.

Ozzy
03-09-2018, 09:18 AM
Phil, do you have Keefe's number??

We're gonna need a coach first and foremost...a good one!! Not a freaking pansy ass, gum chewing schmuck like this!

Pete
03-09-2018, 09:37 AM
Playing McLeod at all while Lettieri stays in Hartford makes no sense.

It makes a ton of sense. Why have him up here playing out of his depth and losing confidence for 8:00/night on a bad team?

The younger guys should stay far away from AV and this shit show. As soon as Shattenkirk is healthy, Gilmour or Pionk are going right back down.

Plus, tank.

Giacomin
03-09-2018, 10:12 AM
Personally I don't think anyone in their right mind would trade one of the top 15 picks in this draft for Zuc or Spooner + futures.
It is simply too deep talent wise and you're giving away far too much potential for not enough return.

Envision a scenario with the 7th or 8th pick. Say Edmonton and Buff (teams that are not as enamored as us about the draft) have picks 4 and 5. We swap.

Here is a chance for Edm to get back an offensive winger they desperately need and still draft a top Dman. One of those teams may be high on Hughes, Bouchard or Dobson or whoever. We have the ammo to move up or around, with picks positioned throughout the first 3 rounds.

There are other possibilities. We add Shatty and swap our say 23rd pick + Devil's 2nd, Zuc/Spponer and Shatty for that 5th pick. Keeping our pick, giving us two in the top 8.

Or we upgrade/swap another pick of ours because scouting loves someone at 16. Offensive wingers have value to teams lacking talent. Or to teams that got surprised and just missed the playoffs or knocked out in the first round because they were lacking somewhere.

Ozzy
03-09-2018, 10:13 AM
It makes a ton of sense. Why have him up here playing out of his depth and losing confidence for 8:00/night on a bad team?

The younger guys should stay far away from AV and this shit show. As soon as Shattenkirk is healthy, Gilmour or Pionk are going right back down.

Plus, tank.

Bingo Pete!!

They should bring up all the heaping stacks of shit they have in Hartford....Give them all their BIG CHANCE! Lets just see how Deep we are down there!!! LOL

Giacomin
03-09-2018, 10:18 AM
And don't underestimate GM's under pressure to win now (and have a job) and use some of the capital they might not be around to enjoy in a couple of years. Every year there are a few GM's who are not in the same position we are.

Giacomin
03-09-2018, 12:24 PM
Playing McLeod at all while Lettieri stays in Hartford makes no sense.

It would be a good thing to have Lias and Chytil, along with guys like Lettieri, Nieves and others competing for the Calder and having some continuity for the rest of the year. This team is a mess and this is not the way to evaluate some of these Dmen, let alone anyone we are truly trying to develop.

However, in no way, shape or form should they go into next season with guys like McLeod, Holland, DD, Carey or any marginal NHLer over 24/25. Mgmt's job is to at least fill out the roster with guys that have some potential or value.

Gravesy
03-09-2018, 12:40 PM
5th - 10th pick maybe if everything fits, but it’s a huge stretch. I think you’d be able to get better deals for those players if you’re of a mind to move them.
Absolutely no chance of anyone giving up 3rd or 4th this year imo. Certainly not for what we can offer.

Respecttheblue
03-09-2018, 02:05 PM
1a. Draft - Regardless of position or current perceived organizational needs, SELECT THE BEST PLAYER. Haven't we learned not to pass up Fowler for Rath, because we just drafted a puck moving dman the year prior? ...

Heavens, I hope NYR has finally learned... if we haven't then there's no hope.
Now more than ever we need to be smart on this. They've blown too many already


1b. What does that mean for this draft? - If we pick #1 we take a Dman. If we pick 2-4 we take a forward. Picks 5-9 are loaded with dman, unless the Rangers like Wahlstrom. Do not underrate Boqvist or Bouchard, either could rise into the top 5. After that, anything can happen, but a lot of Dmen are going in the 1st.

Again draft smart -- no flaming leaps into the off the script high-risk in the first two rounds. There's enough legit talent there. No need to take a flyer


2a. Can't force a #1C - Trading 3-5 of our absolute best assets just to get a 1C, is not practical.

Couldn't agree more. Creating other difficult/costly holes to fill makes no sense at this point.



2b. No reason to trade Skjei - an over payment is not coming back to make it worth it. .... Skjei will improve. He fits the profile of talented, young, big and fast. He plays a complete game. ... Shatty will get to talk to mgmt and the new coach and go from there. Hopefully he is fine with being traded.

Keep Skjei part of the solution not the real problem.
Shatty is up to Shatty. His defensive porosity is what it is, but I would hope he would be part of the rebuild if he is patient.
Reality: Who's taking a major chance on a guy off that surgery anyway without waiting a year to see how he plays?


3. Brenden Smith - leave him in Hartford!! So what if the kids stink, pay the price and have an epiphany. After the season, tell him to come to camp in the best shape of his life. Work on your hockey too, impress the new coach. Fresh start, make the best of it. Fuck this up and you're done.

Brendon, Brandon, Brenden or Brendan? ... I go with Brendan. If he is back to defensive competence ... let him play. If he ain't, let him stay ... there.


4. Hajek and Howden - Both should start the season in Hartford. That should be the plan, no exceptions. L...unless they are crushing it.

You made an exception yourself "unless they are crushing it." I would give them more wiggle room, I think an NHL look-see helps them realize what they need to work on, especially speed of decisionmaking/anticipation -- everything happens much faster, there's less time than most first-timers and second-timers think, and holding onto the puck for too long has been the team's problem at times.


5. Spooner or Zuc -

I felt they got Spooner because they wanted to have him, not because he was the best warm body they could get.
Zuc is still heart and soul to lead the way and show how to play for the kids.



6. Namestnikov - Love him, plays a 200' game at a high level. He really has everything, but size A bit like RNH, but quicker. Zibs/Names is a better 1-2 than Zib/Step or Step/Brass. With Hayes at the 3C and Lias/Chytil, we should be much better up the middle next year and down the road.

Again, I though it on draft day, they got Namestnikov because he was a high value target for the organization. He's a keeper to fit in the skill department.


7. Lias/Chytil - either could play W. The 4C role is open, if we ice a fourth line with 2 decent players like Fast or Grabs. Neither should be penciled in until each proves he is ready and would benefit from the jump. If one or both tear it up in camp/preseason then we give them some NHL burn.

I would liek them to start in HFD, but also have a look see early, so again they know how high the bar is, and the speed at which they have to develop their instincts to anticipate faster on shooting or move the puck.

Giacomin
03-09-2018, 04:37 PM
Keep Skjei part of the solution not the real problem.
Shatty is up to Shatty. His defensive porosity is what it is, but I would hope he would be part of the rebuild if he is patient.
Reality: Who's taking a major chance on a guy off that surgery anyway without waiting a year to see how he plays.

Grounded in reality. You're right, I was just hoping he'd be joining us soon and show it was a simple meniscus repair and is better than ever. The clip of Shatty skating showed he is getting close. Showcase him. :slats:

D'Angelo is a young unseasoned Shatty. They are both third pair righties who can move up on the PP or when we are desperate for offense. We only need one, keep the cheap kid with upside. Maybe as the game slows down for him, his sees the game/ice better. He has some very strong O skills.

Unlike Spooner and Zuc (which is a good and livable redundancy, two 3rd pair righties who can't play D is not. Skjei is the only sure thing top 4 in the entire organization.


You made an exception yourself "unless they are crushing it." I would give them more wiggle room, I think an NHL look-see helps them realize what they need to work on, especially speed of decision making/anticipation -- everything happens much faster, there's less time than most first-timers and second-timers think, and holding onto the puck for too long has been the team's problem at times.

Ha, no! No exception, they start in Hartford. They are both coming from juniors. Being a regular on the Pack will provide valuable developmental coaching and minutes against men. I'm saying they have to be crushing the A, before subjecting them to the pressure of the show. Don't hold em back, but let em earn it.

This whole idea of skipping the men's league before playing in the NHL should be reserved for the mature elite talent. I get it. Fans either want to see the new toys or get impatient and lose sight of what is best for the players development. Last night they were talking about Brayden Point's development. Tampa left him in the A and extra year even though he "should have" made the team. It is a common story.


I felt they got Spooner because they wanted to have him, not because he was the best warm body they could get.
Zuc is still heart and soul to lead the way and show how to play for the kids.

Certainly possible they both have a role. Yeah, I think the Rangers liked Spooner as a player and legit asset. Doesn't mean we might not consider trading him if he is a piece that gets us someone we are seeking. We have to sign Skjei, Hayes, Names, and Spooner. Or trade them. So a decision has to be made on Spooner, who is clearly 4th on that list.

Giacomin
03-09-2018, 04:54 PM
Agree with everything else though. Draft talent. Figure out where they play later. You never know what the team will look like 2-3 years from when these kids are ready.

Saw what you wrote on the GDT too. So true, Don't get cute! Don't worry about need, draft the impact player with a very high ceiling. Look for elite hockey skills and abilities. Let speed, size and character be a tie-breaker.

Giacomin
03-09-2018, 06:01 PM
5th - 10th pick maybe if everything fits, but it’s a huge stretch. I think you’d be able to get better deals for those players if you’re of a mind to move them.
Absolutely no chance of anyone giving up 3rd or 4th this year imo. Certainly not for what we can offer.

Think Chirelli has much time left if they shit the bed again? Can't you see him drafting for need? And they need D and a winger who could play with McDavid and Leon. Zuc could be that wing. What if their scouts love Bouchard/Hughes/Dobson among others. They move just a few picks back and still get their defender, Zuc and maybe the Devil's #2. We get Tkachuk. Maybe they see little difference between him and a couple of Dmen.

Buff is also ready to compete and would welcome proven players to push along their youth.

jsrangers
03-10-2018, 12:29 AM
22 isn't going anywhere, he has a nmc and clearly wanted to be here and signed a long term. I think the only thing Lettieri has going for him is he plays hard and that's it. He to me is maybe a hair better than the plugs on D that really have no business other than filling a role on a tanking (shit) team. DeAngelo is the vest of the bunch but that's more of an indication of just how big the dumpster fire is back there with the AHL'ers that have been brought up.

Gravesy
03-10-2018, 06:59 AM
Think Chirelli has much time left if they shit the bed again? Can't you see him drafting for need? And they need D and a winger who could play with McDavid and Leon. Zuc could be that wing. What if their scouts love Bouchard/Hughes/Dobson among others. They move just a few picks back and still get their defender, Zuc and maybe the Devil's #2. We get Tkachuk. Maybe they see little difference between him and a couple of Dmen.

Buff is also ready to compete and would welcome proven players to push along their youth.

No I don’t tbh, the top 4 in this draft are simply too good. Giving up one of those 4 would be incredibly short sighted.
I hope I’m wrong because we’re the Rangers and we’re not drawing a top 4 pick in a month of sundays.

LarryBiv
03-10-2018, 07:13 AM
Bingo Pete!!

They should bring up all the heaping stacks of shit they have in Hartford....Give them all their BIG CHANCE! Lets just see how Deep we are down there!!! LOL

You know, you are funny like me.....but not that wrong. Makes no sense to bring up Lettieri, he actually might score a few. McCloud is doing his job policing and NOT scoring. (Ahemm)

LarryBiv
03-10-2018, 08:40 AM
No I don’t tbh, the top 4 in this draft are simply too good. Giving up one of those 4 would be incredibly short sighted.
I hope I’m wrong because we’re the Rangers and we’re not drawing a top 4 pick in a month of sundays.

And even though that is true, that we represent the Rangers......we are "long overdue" for a little bit of good fortune. All it takes is getting "lucky" just once (see the Devil's with Hirschier) and our time table could become quite sooner. With a little luck, a little more tank and a deft trade and we could easily have 2 of the top 10 picks. I may be wrong but, maybe just maybe some good fortune is coming our way and we get that next Hirschier or the likes. I don't want to wait around for 4-5 years, need this to be 2 max (and so does Hank) for us to be reckoned with, once again.

Giacomin
03-10-2018, 11:10 AM
22 isn't going anywhere, he has a nmc and clearly wanted to be here and signed a long term. I think the only thing Lettieri has going for him is he plays hard and that's it. He to me is maybe a hair better than the plugs on D that really have no business other than filling a role on a tanking (shit) team. DeAngelo is the vest of the bunch but that's more of an indication of just how big the dumpster fire is back there with the AHL'ers that have been brought up.

After this season Shattenkirk has a modified 10 team no move clause, meaning he names 10 teams he can block a trade to. That is not difficult to navigate. In addition, Shatty did not sign up for a total rebuild and might not have any problem going to a decent destination where he can be a valuable PPQB.

Lettieri also has a good hockey IQ, pretty strong on his skates with a quick first step and can shoot. He has done nothing to standout, but his game is not mistake filled either. He could become a good 4th liner and should get another chance to show improvement next camp. He and Nieves should not be counted out yet, nor should they be counted on [to even be a good 4th liner]. They both need to take the next step and show more improvement, next preseason.

D'Angelo has issues defensively, but he is still young and inexperienced. He has a serious NHL skill set though, that should be evident if you watch him closely. His game is not sound, but things like positioning or seeing the ice better can be coached up and improved with experience and a steady solid partner. He does not have issues like skating backwards with speed (ala Del Zotto) or other limitations such as slow footed, meh coordination and reflexes, weak core, etc. Many good dmen played poorly in their own zone in their first 100 NHL games. Chara is an extreme example, but look at Sergachev. He makes a mistake every game and he is going to be a monster.

Giacomin
03-10-2018, 12:43 PM
No I don’t tbh, the top 4 in this draft are simply too good. Giving up one of those 4 would be incredibly short sighted.
I hope I’m wrong because we’re the Rangers and we’re not drawing a top 4 pick in a month of sundays.

Thanks for the reality check, appreciate your opinion and pessimism. The chance of the chips falling as suggested, followed by a swap of picks that gets us the last of the 3 forwards, is certainly a longshot.

Agree, no one is trading the #1 pick, not to us. Additionally, if you look at the bottom 10-12 teams, likely only two would entertain moving back from 4/5. That is the only opening. Given all our picks and other assets, we are in the best position to make a move. Gorton was just saying that with 2 picks at last year's draft, there was a lot of activity at his table, unlike years prior.

So, put yourself into the head of Chirelli or Buff's owner. If you are familiar with either, they are 'unique individuals' in unusual circumstances with different priorities than you, Jeff Gorton and most other GM/owners. Both teams have enjoyed plenty of high picks and need to make the playoffs next year. Chirelli is being lambasted for trading wingers who put up points and could play with McDavid . Buff needs to get Eichel more NHL ready supporting players and start winning, they already have Mittelstadt and other prospects in the wings. Could easily see either team really liking one of the top Dmen (the need is there) that will still be available a few picks later, but not past the top 10.

The pessimist in me says forget about it, no such luck. But you have to make your own luck and we have the ammo. Mgmt needs to be creative and opportunistic. And our scouting needs to be spot-on, these next few years.

ThirtyONE
03-10-2018, 02:07 PM
And even though that is true, that we represent the Rangers......we are "long overdue" for a little bit of good fortune. All it takes is getting "lucky" just once (see the Devil's with Hirschier) and our time table could become quite sooner. With a little luck, a little more tank and a deft trade and we could easily have 2 of the top 10 picks. I may be wrong but, maybe just maybe some good fortune is coming our way and we get that next Hirschier or the likes. I don't want to wait around for 4-5 years, need this to be 2 max (and so does Hank) for us to be reckoned with, once again.

Hank understands that if he wants to win he has to be traded. Rangers fans have to understand this as well. It's time to stop thinking about things in terms of Hank's career.

Fatfrancesa
03-10-2018, 03:43 PM
As much as the rangers current d is a dumpster fire it’s not much worse than it has been all year. For about 20m less they are just as incompetent. Shattenkirk should be happy because if he was still playing with expectations then he would quickly become the next redden. Plain and simple he’s horrid

ThirtyONE
03-10-2018, 03:56 PM
As much as the rangers current d is a dumpster fire it’s not much worse than it has been all year. For about 20m less they are just as incompetent. Shattenkirk should be happy because if he was still playing with expectations then he would quickly become the next redden. Plain and simple he’s horrid

Shattenkirk was very good at the beginning of the year. I'd say give him a chance to recover from injury and play for a coach that allows him to do what he does best which is skate the puck.

jsrangers
03-10-2018, 04:16 PM
After this season Shattenkirk has a modified 10 team no move clause, meaning he names 10 teams he can block a trade to. That is not difficult to navigate. In addition, Shatty did not sign up for a total rebuild and might not have any problem going to a decent destination where he can be a valuable PPQB.

Lettieri also has a good hockey IQ, pretty strong on his skates with a quick first step and can shoot. He has done nothing to standout, but his game is not mistake filled either. He could become a good 4th liner and should get another chance to show improvement next camp. He and Nieves should not be counted out yet, nor should they be counted on [to even be a good 4th liner]. They both need to take the next step and show more improvement, next preseason.

D'Angelo has issues defensively, but he is still young and inexperienced. He has a serious NHL skill set though, that should be evident if you watch him closely. His game is not sound, but things like positioning or seeing the ice better can be coached up and improved with experience and a steady solid partner. He does not have issues like skating backwards with speed (ala Del Zotto) or other limitations such as slow footed, meh coordination and reflexes, weak core, etc. Many good dmen played poorly in their own zone in their first 100 NHL games. Chara is an extreme example, but look at Sergachev. He makes a mistake every game and he is going to be a monster.

Thanks - I find little to nothing to be excited about in any of these updates. Yay if Letteri is yet another fourth liner. I still see no way 22 leaves after coming to his favorite team. DeAngelo is an undersized guy who plays with an edge that another team wouldn't even take notice of.

But hell hopefully all these guys that have been entirely underwhelming somehow step in shit and become anything but bottom feeder NHL'ers. We knew what we were getting with 22 and he still somehow managed to disappoint. We can blame that one on injury.

Giacomin
03-10-2018, 07:22 PM
Thanks - I find little to nothing to be excited about in any of these updates. Yay if Letteri is yet another fourth liner. I still see no way 22 leaves after coming to his favorite team. DeAngelo is an undersized guy who plays with an edge that another team wouldn't even take notice of.

But hell hopefully all these guys that have been entirely underwhelming somehow step in shit and become anything but bottom feeder NHL'ers. We knew what we were getting with 22 and he still somehow managed to disappoint. We can blame that one on injury.

Ha, well none of that post is exciting, except that Shatty can be traded to 20 teams starting this off season. Good chance he stays, but a full rebuild creates a mitigating factor to the favorite team issue. And be happy we have some flexibility. If he racks up some points in the first half and we suck, he'll be good trade bait and fine leaving a mess. ;)

Don't expect much excitement for a while, unless we get lucky in the lottery. I'm pretty psyched for the draft and checking out the top 40 prospects. As the thread said, look ahead.

Gravesy
03-11-2018, 02:03 PM
Things to be excited about:

The draft. Obviously.
Our approach to free agency this summer. There are a couple of great potential additions available. Depends if we’re trying to accelerate the rebuild or are happy to go with a young team next season.
Training camp/pre season. I expect guys like Lias, Chytil, Hajek, Rykov, Howden and quite possibly one or two draft picks to be given their chance to stake a claim. I’m definitely excited about that.

The Dude
03-11-2018, 08:17 PM
Envision a scenario with the 7th or 8th pick. Say Edmonton and Buff (teams that are not as enamored as us about the draft) have picks 4 and 5. We swap.

Here is a chance for Edm to get back an offensive winger they desperately need and still draft a top Dman. One of those teams may be high on Hughes, Bouchard or Dobson or whoever. We have the ammo to move up or around, with picks positioned throughout the first 3 rounds.

There are other possibilities. We add Shatty and swap our say 23rd pick + Devil's 2nd, Zuc/Spponer and Shatty for that 5th pick. Keeping our pick, giving us two in the top 8.

Or we upgrade/swap another pick of ours because scouting loves someone at 16. Offensive wingers have value to teams lacking talent. Or to teams that got surprised and just missed the playoffs or knocked out in the first round because they were lacking somewhere.

Who is going to play on this team next year? I feel your poise about the draft and the rebuild, but I feel you are a bit too enamored with the whole idea.

The Rangers will need to ice a team next season. There will have to be some veterans and some contracts on the team.

I don't see the Rangers trying to add more first rounders, nor do i think whats left to trade would be any teams top priority to trade for. Especially not a top 10 pick. I just think they are done looking to add more draft picks. Prospects maybe, but i don't think it would be wise to sell assets and go all in on one single draft.

I think both Spooner and Zuc stay. Simply because they have nobody else to plug in on the top 6. Maybe Chytil.

The D is in shambles. Shattenkirk stays because they desperately need NHL caliber players and his contract is actually pretty good.

The Rangers will not ice an AHL roster next season.

jsrangers
03-11-2018, 09:01 PM
Things to be excited about:

The draft. Obviously.
Our approach to free agency this summer. There are a couple of great potential additions available. Depends if we’re trying to accelerate the rebuild or are happy to go with a young team next season.
Training camp/pre season. I expect guys like Lias, Chytil, Hajek, Rykov, Howden and quite possibly one or two draft picks to be given their chance to stake a claim. I’m definitely excited about that.

Rykov has another year on his KHL contract. I don't think he will be in the mix for anything here next year.

Giacomin
03-12-2018, 01:07 PM
Who is going to play on this team next year? I feel your poise about the draft and the rebuild, but I feel you are a bit too enamored with the whole idea.

The Rangers will need to ice a team next season. There will have to be some veterans and some contracts on the team.

Agreed, we'll see what mgmt does regarding NHL ready players. We won't get rid of every vet. Yet a couple may/should not be part of the team in a year or two. Staal, maybe one of Zuc/Spooner and Shatty because we are overloaded with D'Angelo and other shitty younger and cheaper dmen to play the third pair.

BTW, I suggested trading Zuc or Spoon to upgrade our pick for a guy like Tkachuk, who we can add to the lineup. A package for a top prospect or a dman like Dermott or Fabbro would be worth it too.


I don't see the Rangers trying to add more first rounders

Agree. We may be more likely to move around. Maybe trade one of the later firsts for an NHL ready prospect or player we like from a team that falls in love with a draft prospect. What about Ottawa wanting picks, to purge salary and get rid of Ryan. Why not trade Tampa's picks (or everything we got from Boston) and pick up Ryan's contract for Mark Stone. There's our first line winger! Ryan works great for a 4th line of Lias and Fast.


nor do i think whats left to trade would be any teams top priority to trade for. Especially not a top 10 pick. I just think they are done looking to add more draft picks. Prospects maybe, but i don't think it would be wise to sell assets and go all in on one single draft.

Well, I was talking about upgrading our pick into the top 5. Or another pick into the top 10-12. Zuc and Spoon have enough value that I'd only trade one for specific targets, and not at a discount. They are good hockey players and getting hot now. Shatty is a diff story, he is a defensive liability coming off an injury, making more than Zuc. So I'd move him, but wouldn't expect a similar return.


The D is in shambles. Shattenkirk stays because they desperately need NHL caliber players and his contract is actually pretty good.

The Rangers will not ice an AHL roster next season.

Definitely a shambles and sure he probably stays, with the rest. But if there is a trade, they are still the likely candidates.

As for free agency, none of the forwards really work for me. Nash or Grabs are the most attractive, if the contract is friendly. I'd offer Jon Moore (27) a contract or take a chance on de Haan (26) recovering. The only other decent Dman under 30 is Carlson who will cost a fortune.

Both Chytil and Lias could be here by xmas, one probably right out of camp, if not both. Only Hajek (of the new prospects) has a chance out of camp, but he will be best served starting in Hartford.

The Dude
03-12-2018, 04:38 PM
Idk, feel if the Rangers are packaging their first rounder with Zuc, they are not getting back equal value. I'd only do so for Dahlin, and I don't see anyone accepting that package.

Im not entirely sure DeAngelo makes the roster next season. Im thinking he is dealt in a small reclamation project type of trade, where they get a struggling young forward, or even a salary dump of a semi underachieving vet. Maybe Bobby Ryan, or Lucic with some salary retention if possible, along with a pick or prospect.

I see no reason to make room for DeAngelo or anyone else except for the dude they got for Graves. Maybe Day? Is anyone going to be ready to play next season? In not thinking so.

If the Rangers aren't going for Tavares, then theres no need to dump salary on guys like Staal or Shattenkirk. I don't think anyone will be beating down the Rangers door looking to deal for them.

Free agent forwards are interesting to me. JVR, Hornqvist, Nash, Grabner, Antoine Roussel and of course Kovalchuk.. All are incredibly interesting options. Two of which will likely want to come here at a discount.

I definitely go for deHaan, Jack Johnson could be a fit. There are a ton of RFA D-men that maybe match up for a trade... And im not even thinking about the top ones. I'm talking Paul LaDue and Ryan Murphy types. Temp/ fill in, scrap heap guys.

Or maybe you do go for a big name and float out an offer sheet to a Trouba, Dumba, Theodore, Morrisey or Murray. A bunch of these teams are going to be pressed for the cap. Over paying money wise for Trouba could be worth it. I don't feel like looking up what the draft pick compensation would be, but it may be worth it.

If one of Chytil or Andersson aren't here to start the season, I will be concerned. The way the organization is hyping these kids, it sounds like they should be able to make the team. We'll see. And besides them... Theres nothing that screams ready at this moment.

Giacomin
03-12-2018, 06:48 PM
Idk, feel if the Rangers are packaging their first rounder with Zuc, they are not getting back equal value. I'd only do so for Dahlin, and I don't see anyone accepting that package.

If value is not there, we don't do it. However, potential trading partners are teams:
1) in a win now mode
2) pressed up against the cap with RFAs or
3) wanting to add/move pick(s)

We need to be opportunistic and a little creative and land some actual NHL players once the off season begins in earnest.


Im not entirely sure DeAngelo makes the roster next season. Im thinking he is dealt in a small reclamation project type of trade, where they get a struggling young forward, or even a salary dump of a semi underachieving vet. Maybe Bobby Ryan, or Lucic with some salary retention if possible, along with a pick or prospect.

D'Angelo is getting better, you are giving up on him way early. Look at his skills, he manages the puck well, makes precise passes, skates strong with and w/o the puck. He's 21, quick and strong for his size. Who else plays RD next year? OK, you have Shatty (a defensive liability who isn't getting better) cause we can't get value in return. D'Angelo and Hajek are our best D prospects. Pionk is a distant runnerup and pretty questionable. Hajek should start the year in Hartford. Rykov will be playing for SKA. Bigras is a lottery ticket, Day is not here next year, Dunny says never.

Lucic is selfish, slow and sucks. League minimum 4th liner. I want no part of any salary dump or any consistently underachieving vet, let alone both. We have Staal, Hank and Shatty to provide those things.

Only reason to take Ryan is because it could be the only way to acquire Mark Stone (+10, PPG on the worst team in the league) at a reasonable cost. Otherwise, fuck Ryan. Stone (25) will command a huge contract which Melnyck will be loathe to pay. He can dump both contracts on us and we can give him the Boston package of picks and prospects or the Tampa picks.


Free agent forwards are interesting to me. JVR, Hornqvist, Nash, Grabner, Antoine Roussel and of course Kovalchuk.. All are incredibly interesting options. Two of which will likely want to come here at a discount. I definitely go for deHaan, Jack Johnson could be a fit.

* JVR is great in front of the net, but will be 29 and probably gets 6 X 6. No
* Hornqvist will be 32 in Jan and sure to get over 5 mil for too many years. No.
* Roussel I like as a 4th liner, but would rather Grabner for 3 years at the slightly higher price.
* Nash for 3 years would be nice, if he doesn't win the cup. Boston already loves him though.
* Can we do Kovy for 1 year? More scares me. Year to year gentleman's agreement. Prefer Nash or Grabs.

* We bargain shop and get de Haan, who recovers 100% and doesn't miss a beat.

* Been watching Jon Moore and he continues to play well, facing opponents top lines. He can skate the puck with authority and passes well. He'll generate interest and cost more than de Haan, but his value to $ could be reasonable. We have a spot for him om the 2nd pair. Wouldn't be surprised if the Devils try to keep him and the Isles the same with de Haan.


There are a ton of RFA D-men that maybe match up for a trade...
Or maybe you do go for a big name and float out an offer sheet to a Trouba, Dumba, Theodore, Morrisey or Murray. A bunch of these teams are going to be pressed for the cap. Over paying money wise for Trouba could be worth it. I don't feel like looking up what the draft pick compensation would be, but it may be worth it.

That's exactly the type of thinking mgmt needs. :thumbs: Not so much the offer sheet, cause the comp would be huge, but the Jets will be up against it. They have ridiculous upcoming contracts to Laine, Connor, Morrissey, Trouba, among others. It appears they'll have to move someone, Trouba the likely candidate. Minny too. Ottawa, just cause they are cheap and sellers. Though, Stone is the only real target there.


If one of Chytil or Andersson aren't here to start the season, I will be concerned. The way the organization is hyping these kids, it sounds like they should be able to make the team. We'll see. And besides them... Theres nothing that screams ready at this moment.

Besides Chytil and Lias, I wouldn't expect any to be ready except D'Angelo. So scout his every shift the rest of this season. Pionk can be our longshot. Maybe Lettieri or Nieves can push for a 4th line spot. Hajek could make a push sometime next year. Bring him up if ready and we are competing.

Giacomin
03-12-2018, 07:01 PM
Forgot about Detroit and Athanasiou. A 2nd rounder and a 3rd next year?

Pete
03-12-2018, 08:16 PM
If value is not there, we don't do it. However, potential trading partners are teams:
1) in a win now mode
2) pressed up against the cap with RFAs or
3) wanting to add/move pick(s)

We need to be opportunistic and a little creative and land some actual NHL players once the off season begins in earnest.



D'Angelo is getting better, you are giving up on him way early. Look at his skills, he manages the puck well, makes precise passes, skates strong with and w/o the puck. He's 21, quick and strong for his size. Who else plays RD next year? OK, you have Shatty (a defensive liability who isn't getting better) cause we can't get value in return. D'Angelo and Hajek are our best D prospects. Pionk is a distant runnerup and pretty questionable. Hajek should start the year in Hartford. Rykov will be playing for SKA. Bigras is a lottery ticket, Day is not here next year, Dunny says never.

Lucic is selfish, slow and sucks. League minimum 4th liner. I want no part of any salary dump or any consistently underachieving vet, let alone both. We have Staal, Hank and Shatty to provide those things.

Only reason to take Ryan is because it could be the only way to acquire Mark Stone (+10, PPG on the worst team in the league) at a reasonable cost. Otherwise, fuck Ryan. Stone (25) will command a huge contract which Melnyck will be loathe to pay. He can dump both contracts on us and we can give him the Boston package of picks and prospects or the Tampa picks.



* JVR is great in front of the net, but will be 29 and probably gets 6 X 6. No
* Hornqvist will be 32 in Jan and sure to get over 5 mil for too many years. No.
* Roussel I like as a 4th liner, but would rather Grabner for 3 years at the slightly higher price.
* Nash for 3 years would be nice, if he doesn't win the cup. Boston already loves him though.
* Can we do Kovy for 1 year? More scares me. Year to year gentleman's agreement. Prefer Nash or Grabs.

* We bargain shop and get de Haan, who recovers 100% and doesn't miss a beat.

* Been watching Jon Moore and he continues to play well, facing opponents top lines. He can skate the puck with authority and passes well. He'll generate interest and cost more than de Haan, but his value to $ could be reasonable. We have a spot for him om the 2nd pair. Wouldn't be surprised if the Devils try to keep him and the Isles the same with de Haan.



That's exactly the type of thinking mgmt needs. :thumbs: Not so much the offer sheet, cause the comp would be huge, but the Jets will be up against it. They have ridiculous upcoming contracts to Laine, Connor, Morrissey, Trouba, among others. It appears they'll have to move someone, Trouba the likely candidate. Minny too. Ottawa, just cause they are cheap and sellers. Though, Stone is the only real target there.



Besides Chytil and Lias, I wouldn't expect any to be ready except D'Angelo. So scout his every shift the rest of this season. Pionk can be our longshot. Maybe Lettieri or Nieves can push for a 4th line spot. Hajek could make a push sometime next year. Bring him up if ready and we are competing.

Hornqvist isn't UFA. He re-signed.

The Dude
03-13-2018, 05:01 AM
Im really not in agreement with you about Shattenkirk. You are writing the guy off really quickly. This is a guy who took less money to come here. Guy wanted to be a Ranger. Im not huge on his defensive game, but you are making him sound more awful than he actually is. Inturn you give DeAngelo major props for being a much, much, MUCH lesser version of Shattenkirk.. You also throw Lundqvist onto the fire as a "consistently underachieving vet"... ? Come on. Yes, hes overpaid. Hes certainly not underachieving.

On giving up on DeAngelo. Im not the only one. Frikken Arizona threw him into the Stepan deal, as they didn't seem to want him around. The Rangers had no use for him up until the Firesale. Lets be honest. Hes done nothing with his time to showcase his goods. Nothing. Nevermind the defensive disaster he is. If he were racking up the points, I wouldn't care. 31 games 8 assists and minus 3,085. Im no longer a believer.

Maybe a Zuc or Spooner can be a part of a package for a bigger RFA D man. But i doubt it. I think the two I mentioned are more likely type of scenario's.

I honestly don't see any of those free agents getting more than 3-4 years. Kovy you give no more than 2. I want a useful energy player. I think Roussel fits a major need. His style of play and attitude on the ice would be a breathe of fresh air.

I want no part of Jon Moore. None. I'd rather give that money back to Holden. deHaan or Holden. Then deal for a lower lever RFA and start a reclamation project. Unless Winnipeg wants a late 1st rounder and some garbage for Trouba...

I'd take Bobby Ryan on 50% salary retention at the cost of shitty DeAngelo. Lucic too. Lucic can atleast play with size and put in 20 goals. He can also play center if need be.

I don't give that Boston or Tampa package for Matt Stone....... That puts this team right back where it was. Why deal Miller if you are going to bring in a similar production player, who doesn't fit the speed game you desire?

Pete
03-13-2018, 05:22 AM
The only UFA defenseman that really fills a need is Carlson. Can handle top defensive assignment and right handed.

Lucic isn't a center and just went about a month without recording a single point...playing with the best offensive player in the world.

Shattenkirk might not want to be here if the rest of his contract are rebuild years.

We can't continue to judge players in a silo right now. The entire team is a mess. Only Spooner looks competent. You've been trying to package D'Angleo since we traded for him, before he played a single game. If he's so terrible that Arizona threw him into the Stepan deal, and he's been terrible here for us (don't agree with either), by that logic...who'd want to take him from us?

Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc
03-13-2018, 05:39 AM
I don't give that Boston or Tampa package for Matt Stone....... That puts this team right back where it was. Why deal Miller if you are going to bring in a similar production player, who doesn't fit the speed game you desire?

That's not true. Miller's best season was in 16/17 when he score 56 points. Stone has three seasons with over 60 points, including this year pacing a ppg on one of the worst teams in the league. Miller also got 1g, 15a in 40 playoff games, Stone has 6g, 10a in 27 playoff games.

Stone >> Miller by far.

The Dude
03-13-2018, 10:33 AM
That's not true. Miller's best season was in 16/17 when he score 56 points. Stone has three seasons with over 60 points, including this year pacing a ppg on one of the worst teams in the league. Miller also got 1g, 15a in 40 playoff games, Stone has 6g, 10a in 27 playoff games.

Stone >> Miller by far.

I don't put stock in a player leading his losing team in scoring. Hes obviously not the problem, but hes not helping them win.

Stone isnt a difference maker, is more along the lines of what I meant. Miller wasn't either IMO.

Miller is a better skater, probably more well rounded and as a person who didn't buy into Miller being physical, id say hes also more physical than Stone. Stone is a year older as well.

Definitely not ready to send a boatload of picks and prospects for Mark frikken Stone.

Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc
03-13-2018, 11:01 AM
I don't put stock in a player leading his losing team in scoring. Hes obviously not the problem, but hes not helping them win.

Stone isnt a difference maker, is more along the lines of what I meant. Miller wasn't either IMO.

Miller is a better skater, probably more well rounded and as a person who didn't buy into Miller being physical, id say hes also more physical than Stone. Stone is a year older as well.

Definitely not ready to send a boatload of picks and prospects for Mark frikken Stone.

That was not the proposal from Giac either. Tampa's 1st + a little something (ADA/Vesey) for Stone and Ryan. That's not a boatload of picks and prospects, thats 1 pick in a draft we got three 1st and a B-/C Level prospect/Middle 6 winger. Now I dont know if that will be enough for Ottawa, probably not, but its a deal I would do with my eyes closed.

Stone was #6 in 16/17 Selke award, he has a much better career +/- (on a worse team over the years) and averages a lot more shorthanded TOI, so your argument about Miller being a more well rounded player is not true.

Stone is a legit first line winger, Miller is an inconsistent 2nd line/middle 6 winger.

Giacomin
03-13-2018, 11:56 AM
I don't put stock in a player leading his losing team in scoring. Hes obviously not the problem, but hes not helping them win.

Stone isnt a difference maker, is more along the lines of what I meant. Miller wasn't either IMO.

Miller is a better skater, probably more well rounded and as a person who didn't buy into Miller being physical, id say hes also more physical than Stone. Stone is a year older as well.

Definitely not ready to send a boatload of picks and prospects for Mark frikken Stone.
'
Dude, this was a possible solution to "needing to ice a team with some vets next year". Our third 1st rounder and Tampa's 2019 pick (if they don't win the cup this year), plus we take on Ryan salary for Stone. Or the same 1st, a third this year and next, Lindgren and Gilmour/O'Gara. That add 2 vets, one a legit 1st line scorer who is 25 and plays a complete game. And we still have most of the picks.

It is understandable you underrate Stone, you are not the only one, he's hype free. However, he's logged 62 points in 58 games this year. Plus/minus usually doesn't tell much, but there are no Ottawa regs in the plus except Stone is a +9. For reference, Karlsson is a minus 27. Their coach considers Stone one of the best D forwards on the team and lauds his leadership. He doesn't make mistakes, no stupid penalties, plays all ST.

Coincidently, just read an article today suggesting the Av's offer sheet him for 7 x 7+ mil (thinking Melnyk can't match) and giving up their 1st, 2nd and 3rd. Interestingly, they already have Ottawas 1st and 3rd this year. Doubt we get the first unmatched offer sheet since 2007, but it is a good barometer for value.

It's not fair to compare Miller to Stone, I didn't. He is not in his league, nor is it relevent. Even if you consider him improving away from AV, he is still a second liner. Stone is a 1st on pretty much any team.

You obviously don't like Stone and Ryan for essentially our last first and a Tampas 2nd next year. That's fine, but IMO Ottawa wouldn't make that mistake. I could see Colorado offering better picks, but doubt they want the extra salary in Ryan. And you never know how impulsive the owner gets if he has a team ready to take on Ryan that isn't part of a Karlsson deal. He is soooo cheap.

Giacomin
03-13-2018, 12:38 PM
Im really not in agreement with you about Shattenkirk. You are writing the guy off really quickly. This is a guy who took less money to come here. Guy wanted to be a Ranger. Im not huge on his defensive game, but you are making him sound more awful than he actually is. Inturn you give DeAngelo major props for being a much, much, MUCH lesser version of Shattenkirk.. You also throw Lundqvist onto the fire as a "consistently underachieving vet"... ? Come on. Yes, hes overpaid. Hes certainly not underachieving.

On giving up on DeAngelo. Im not the only one. Frikken Arizona threw him into the Stepan deal, as they didn't seem to want him around. The Rangers had no use for him up until the Firesale. Lets be honest. Hes done nothing with his time to showcase his goods. Nothing. Nevermind the defensive disaster he is. If he were racking up the points, I wouldn't care. 31 games 8 assists and minus 3,085. Im no longer a believer.

Haven't given up on Shatty, he's a damn excellent PP point man. I really like the person too. Unfortunately at 29 his defensive play is not going to improve, unless the knee made him absolutely horrible this year. But he was a defensive liability last year with the Blues and Caps. His 5 on 5 offense fell off enough to remind me of last year. Given his age and salary/term and all the other younger d liabilities, if he is not all-in on a rebuild we should let him establish some value back and then move on. He has a say in if he wants to go, and where.

As for D'Angelo, he is a poorer version of Shatty on O and has to hone his vision, knowledge and poise to be able to make the passes Shatty does on the PP. However, he is already his equal defensively (not saying much) and he is young and inexperienced enough to have plenty of room to grow. Unfortunately, he gets an MRI today and may lose valuable NHL learning time. Hoping this MRI turns out fine.

I completely understand that you've given up on him, that he hasn't showed you enough. I see a lot of potential (even though the results are not there) and think he can still imporve with some luck (health) and coaching. You may be right, I'm just not as confident as you that he is a lost cause.

Hank, was just joking, except he does fits into the overpaid vet category with a NMC.



I honestly don't see any of those free agents getting more than 3-4 years. Kovy you give no more than 2. I want a useful energy player. I think Roussel fits a major need. His style of play and attitude on the ice would be a breathe of fresh air.

If we can't add any other forwards, I'd like Roussel on a shorter cheap deal. I wanted him a few years ago. However, he is a pure 4th liner at this point and unlike Grabs or Fast, he can not consistently play up in the lineup and be as effective.



I want no part of Jon Moore. None. I'd rather give that money back to Holden. deHaan or Holden. Then deal for a lower lever RFA and start a reclamation project. Unless Winnipeg wants a late 1st rounder and some garbage for Trouba...

Not sure why you hate Moore, we'll just agree to disagree. We agree on de Haan, but I'm not interested in Holden, even if he is doing fine in Boston.

As for the Jets and Trouba, now you are talking. They have upcoming cap issues and would like cheap assets. It's a longshot, but we have a 1st and 2nd to offer, for starters. Maybe there is another cheap asset or two that would interest them.

The Dude
03-13-2018, 08:15 PM
That was not the proposal from Giac either. Tampa's 1st + a little something (ADA/Vesey) for Stone and Ryan. That's not a boatload of picks and prospects, thats 1 pick in a draft we got three 1st and a B-/C Level prospect/Middle 6 winger. Now I dont know if that will be enough for Ottawa, probably not, but its a deal I would do with my eyes closed.

"He can dump both contracts on us and we can give him the Boston package of picks and prospects or the Tampa picks."

Yeah... It was..



Stone was #6 in 16/17 Selke award, he has a much better career +/- (on a worse team over the years) and averages a lot more shorthanded TOI, so your argument about Miller being a more well rounded player is not true.

Stone is a legit first line winger, Miller is an inconsistent 2nd line/middle 6 winger.

I don't think I meant that Miller is better defensively. More or less a guy that does a few more things. Like being a better skater, being more physical, using his speed to cut to the net, and a better shot. I definitely didn't know about Stone being a selke candidate though. Never noticed his defensive instincts as a big attribute. Just saw him as a guy that can pop in 20 goals, getting good ice time.

Perhaps im downplaying his skill level, but i still don't want to add him to the roster.

The Dude
03-13-2018, 08:34 PM
'
Dude, this was a possible solution to "needing to ice a team with some vets next year". Our third 1st rounder and Tampa's 2019 pick (if they don't win the cup this year), plus we take on Ryan salary for Stone. Or the same 1st, a third this year and next, Lindgren and Gilmour/O'Gara. That add 2 vets, one a legit 1st line scorer who is 25 and plays a complete game. And we still have most of the picks.

It is understandable you underrate Stone, you are not the only one, he's hype free. However, he's logged 62 points in 58 games this year. Plus/minus usually doesn't tell much, but there are no Ottawa regs in the plus except Stone is a +9. For reference, Karlsson is a minus 27. Their coach considers Stone one of the best D forwards on the team and lauds his leadership. He doesn't make mistakes, no stupid penalties, plays all ST.

Coincidently, just read an article today suggesting the Av's offer sheet him for 7 x 7+ mil (thinking Melnyk can't match) and giving up their 1st, 2nd and 3rd. Interestingly, they already have Ottawas 1st and 3rd this year. Doubt we get the first unmatched offer sheet since 2007, but it is a good barometer for value.

It's not fair to compare Miller to Stone, I didn't. He is not in his league, nor is it relevent. Even if you consider him improving away from AV, he is still a second liner. Stone is a 1st on pretty much any team.

You obviously don't like Stone and Ryan for essentially our last first and a Tampas 2nd next year. That's fine, but IMO Ottawa wouldn't make that mistake. I could see Colorado offering better picks, but doubt they want the extra salary in Ryan. And you never know how impulsive the owner gets if he has a team ready to take on Ryan that isn't part of a Karlsson deal. He is soooo cheap.

I don't want to give two firsts and prospects for Stone. Id rather lose those pick on an offer sheet to someone younger and imo better. I myself don't consider Stone a 1st liner. Not the 1st liner im looking for anyway.

I made the Miller comparison because the guy is a 20 goal man and doesn't seem to make anyone around him better. Nice player. Just not a difference maker. I don't hate him. I just don't want to give him his next contract moving forward in a "rebuild". Marrying yourself to his next deal and having him as your top player for the future isnt much more different than what this team has done the last 5 years with Stepan, Brassard, Zucc, Kreider, Miller and Nash. Bunch of 2nd line talents who are real nice pieces. Just not good enough to tie the reigns to. Almost. But not. You go for Stone and thats your building block with that next contract. Id rather not. Sorry.

jsrangers
03-13-2018, 08:59 PM
If value is not there, we don't do it. However, potential trading partners are teams:
1) in a win now mode
2) pressed up against the cap with RFAs or
3) wanting to add/move pick(s)

We need to be opportunistic and a little creative and land some actual NHL players once the off season begins in earnest.



D'Angelo is getting better, you are giving up on him way early. Look at his skills, he manages the puck well, makes precise passes, skates strong with and w/o the puck. He's 21, quick and strong for his size. Who else plays RD next year? OK, you have Shatty (a defensive liability who isn't getting better) cause we can't get value in return. D'Angelo and Hajek are our best D prospects. Pionk is a distant runnerup and pretty questionable. Hajek should start the year in Hartford. Rykov will be playing for SKA. Bigras is a lottery ticket, Day is not here next year, Dunny says never.

Lucic is selfish, slow and sucks. League minimum 4th liner. I want no part of any salary dump or any consistently underachieving vet, let alone both. We have Staal, Hank and Shatty to provide those things.

Only reason to take Ryan is because it could be the only way to acquire Mark Stone (+10, PPG on the worst team in the league) at a reasonable cost. Otherwise, fuck Ryan. Stone (25) will command a huge contract which Melnyck will be loathe to pay. He can dump both contracts on us and we can give him the Boston package of picks and prospects or the Tampa picks.



* JVR is great in front of the net, but will be 29 and probably gets 6 X 6. No
* Hornqvist will be 32 in Jan and sure to get over 5 mil for too many years. No.
* Roussel I like as a 4th liner, but would rather Grabner for 3 years at the slightly higher price.
* Nash for 3 years would be nice, if he doesn't win the cup. Boston already loves him though.
* Can we do Kovy for 1 year? More scares me. Year to year gentleman's agreement. Prefer Nash or Grabs.

* We bargain shop and get de Haan, who recovers 100% and doesn't miss a beat.

* Been watching Jon Moore and he continues to play well, facing opponents top lines. He can skate the puck with authority and passes well. He'll generate interest and cost more than de Haan, but his value to $ could be reasonable. We have a spot for him om the 2nd pair. Wouldn't be surprised if the Devils try to keep him and the Isles the same with de Haan.



That's exactly the type of thinking mgmt needs. :thumbs: Not so much the offer sheet, cause the comp would be huge, but the Jets will be up against it. They have ridiculous upcoming contracts to Laine, Connor, Morrissey, Trouba, among others. It appears they'll have to move someone, Trouba the likely candidate. Minny too. Ottawa, just cause they are cheap and sellers. Though, Stone is the only real target there.



Besides Chytil and Lias, I wouldn't expect any to be ready except D'Angelo. So scout his every shift the rest of this season. Pionk can be our longshot. Maybe Lettieri or Nieves can push for a 4th line spot. Hajek could make a push sometime next year. Bring him up if ready and we are competing.

Moore is a second pair guy on the Devils behind Greene and Vatanen. There's nights he handles the puck like a grenade in his own end and while he has some offensive skills more often than not he's going to get knocked off the puck and not win too many bboard battles. He's allergic to the blue paint on defense.

Giacomin
03-13-2018, 09:51 PM
Moore is a second pair guy on the Devils behind Greene and Vatanen. There's nights he handles the puck like a grenade in his own end and while he has some offensive skills more often than not he's going to get knocked off the puck and not win too many bboard battles. He's allergic to the blue paint on defense.

He's been getting 20 minutes a night. Skates well, moves with authority with the puck and competent defensively. I miss plenty of Devil games, maybe he's been inconsistent? The other night against Nashville he was playing the final important minutes.

Just lookin to bargain shop a fairly young FA dman. Maybe de Haan is the best option.

Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc
03-14-2018, 04:41 AM
I don't want to give two firsts and prospects for Stone. Id rather lose those pick on an offer sheet to someone younger and imo better. I myself don't consider Stone a 1st liner. Not the 1st liner im looking for anyway.

I made the Miller comparison because the guy is a 20 goal man and doesn't seem to make anyone around him better. Nice player. Just not a difference maker. I don't hate him. I just don't want to give him his next contract moving forward in a "rebuild". Marrying yourself to his next deal and having him as your top player for the future isnt much more different than what this team has done the last 5 years with Stepan, Brassard, Zucc, Kreider, Miller and Nash. Bunch of 2nd line talents who are real nice pieces. Just not good enough to tie the reigns to. Almost. But not. You go for Stone and thats your building block with that next contract. Id rather not. Sorry.

I cant understand how you don't see a ppg, selke candidate, 25 y/o winger as a 1st liner.

I get your point, and not wanting to tie up 7x7m on a player like Stone is fine, but he IS a legit 1st line winger on any team and he would be our best player if we got him. I think you're underrating him a lot(just like everyone else, not much hype about him).

And look at that, I bash Miller for 2 seconds and he scores a hattrick. That trade will bite us in the ass when we draft some nobodies and Howden/Hajek becomes middle 6 and bottom pair guys.

jsrangers
03-16-2018, 05:59 PM
https://twitter.com/SlavaMalamud/status/974683139275620354


Slava Malamud


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Kovalchuk was on Russian TV today saying he is definitely back in the NHL next season. Wants the Stanley Cup.

12:25 PM - 16 Mar 2018


No shot he comes here IF this is true which is fine with me.

josh
03-16-2018, 06:08 PM
Trade him at the deadline.

Perfect situation for both the team and the player.

The Dude
03-16-2018, 06:14 PM
I cant understand how you don't see a ppg, selke candidate, 25 y/o winger as a 1st liner.

I get your point, and not wanting to tie up 7x7m on a player like Stone is fine, but he IS a legit 1st line winger on any team and he would be our best player if we got him. I think you're underrating him a lot(just like everyone else, not much hype about him).

And look at that, I bash Miller for 2 seconds and he scores a hattrick. That trade will bite us in the ass when we draft some nobodies and Howden/Hajek becomes middle 6 and bottom pair guys.

His rookie year was his best goal output. He should top that 26 goal mark. I guess im underrating him. Thought his goal totals were lower. Don't know why i thought he never topped 20,

Fatfrancesa
03-20-2018, 12:29 PM
Stone has a long concussion history doesn’t he?