Nedved 1995

[Pete]

4 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said:

That roster was way more speed and skill and finesse than it was physicality, toughness and grit.

Richter gave up so many goals in that series he had a sunburn on the back of his neck from the red light going off behind him.

 

It wasn’t close.

And it played out that way cause Pittsburgh had more skill, speed and talent.

Period. 

 

Agree. Not sure how anyone can say Jagr and Francis weren't finesse players, Murray and Smolinski sure. But not the first 2.

[RangersIn7]

2 hours ago, MuddyInTheMiddle said:

 

Fair enough, and I think that we 99.8% agree so there is no need to parse the minutia.

 

At the end of the day, Messier was more or less the shadow GM of that team until Checketts and Smith got tired of that scenario when the thrill of 1994 wore off. As Albatross kind of intimated, Messier wanted "his guys" around him while he was steering the ship, and right or wrong that is kind of how it goes in that type of environment. 

That was the problem.

 

By 1995-1996, Messier was a 35 year old player in decline who milked that power and held up the organization for more money multiple times. He squashed deals for players that could help. He had talented players shipped out. 
 

Mess at that point, for all his talk about winning, didn’t have winning on his mind. He had money, power, and celebrity on his mind. 
 

Luc Robitaille for Nedved isn’t a winning deal.

Zubov for Samuelsson isn’t a winning deal.

 

We need to be tougher. And we can do so at the expense of actual ability and production. 
They’re lesser players but they’re my type of players… so it’s ok.

 Also, pay me more at the expense of others.

 

And then they didn’t win again and the franchise went to shit for 7 years. 
 

That’s also part of his legacy.
 

 

Edited May 22 by RangersIn7

[RangersIn7]

Also… if anyone is specifically talking about that team in that time and place…

1995-96 Rangers.

 

They made that god awful trade for 

36 year old Jari Kurri who was beyond done. Plus 33 year old Marty McSorley. Who was also done. 
 

They traded Ray Ferraro in that deal. Ray was a bit below a point per game and +13 that season.

Plus, a 24 year old defenseman named Mattias Norstrom who later became the Captain of the LA Kings.

 

 

Guess which Rangers legend was behind that trade? 

 

[Vodka Drunkenski]

Why is this thread still going

[Sharpshooter]

1 hour ago, RangersIn7 said:

Also… if anyone is specifically talking about that team in that time and place…

1995-96 Rangers.

 

They made that god awful trade for 

36 year old Jari Kurri who was beyond done. Plus 33 year old Marty McSorley. Who was also done. 
 

They traded Ray Ferraro in that deal. Ray was a bit below a point per game and +13 that season.

Plus, a 24 year old defenseman named Mattias Norstrom who later became the Captain of the LA Kings.

 

 

Guess which Rangers legend was behind that trade? 

 

Could it be Rangers captain and pseudo General Manager, Mark Messier?

 

If Ferraro is bitter at the Rangers, I can't say I blame him. I am too, for that absolute dumpster fire.

[Sharpshooter]

2 hours ago, RangersIn7 said:

That was the problem.

 

By 1995-1996, Messier was a 35 year old player in decline who milked that power and held up the organization for more money multiple times. He squashed deals for players that could help. He had talented players shipped out. 
 

Mess at that point, for all his talk about winning, didn’t have winning on his mind. He had money, power, and celebrity on his mind. 
 

Luc Robitaille for Nedved isn’t a winning deal.

Zubov for Samuelsson isn’t a winning deal.

 

We need to be tougher. And we can do so at the expense of actual ability and production. 
They’re lesser players but they’re my type of players… so it’s ok.

 Also, pay me more at the expense of others.

 

And then they didn’t win again and the franchise went to shit for 7 years. 
 

That’s also part of his legacy.
 

 

Exactly. On top of that they drafted and developed for shit, and you had 1997-2004. The true dark ages for this franchise. An absolutely terrible and embarrassing time. I do not miss it. We've been eating pretty good since.

[Rangers1994]

6 hours ago, RangersIn7 said:

Also… if anyone is specifically talking about that team in that time and place…

1995-96 Rangers.

 

They made that god awful trade for 

36 year old Jari Kurri who was beyond done. Plus 33 year old Marty McSorley. Who was also done. 
 

They traded Ray Ferraro in that deal. Ray was a bit below a point per game and +13 that season.

Plus, a 24 year old defenseman named Mattias Norstrom who later became the Captain of the LA Kings.

 

 

Guess which Rangers legend was behind that trade? 

 

 

 

In all fairness, Messier didn't tell Smith which players to trade.  That's on Neil Smith.

[Highwaystar]

14 hours ago, Tomas Sandstrom said:

 

What did he go through?   And why was he called soft?  

Eh, he was soft as shit. Couldn’t handle NY plain and simple. A lot more people had harder trials and tribulations and showed more guts 

[Pete]

4 hours ago, Highwaystar said:

Eh, he was soft as shit. Couldn’t handle NY plain and simple.

Nah, he couldn't handle being bullied by a guy who was at the end of the line and didn't want to see younger, fresher talent replace him.

 

Quote

A lot more people had harder trials and tribulations and showed more guts 

Please do tell...who are these people?

Edited May 23 by Pete

[MuddyInTheMiddle]

13 hours ago, RangersIn7 said:

You’re quoting a bloated, entitled, self-righteous asshole, conservative rapists now?

 

Bill O’Reillly?

Really?

 

That guy?

You know he hosted a tabloid show for years… which gave him a career… then spent a couple decades bashing tabloid journalism, right? 

 

Hey… I’ve got a couple of really good quotes from Matt Lauer and Harvey Weinstein?

 

Wanna hear them?

 

Sure; let's hear them. Why not?

 

I'll try not to be as sensitive about it as you seem to be.

[MuddyInTheMiddle]

13 hours ago, RangersIn7 said:

That was the problem.

 

By 1995-1996, Messier was a 35 year old player in decline who milked that power and held up the organization for more money multiple times. He squashed deals for players that could help. He had talented players shipped out. 
 

Mess at that point, for all his talk about winning, didn’t have winning on his mind. He had money, power, and celebrity on his mind. 
 

Luc Robitaille for Nedved isn’t a winning deal.

Zubov for Samuelsson isn’t a winning deal.

 

We need to be tougher. And we can do so at the expense of actual ability and production. 
They’re lesser players but they’re my type of players… so it’s ok.

 Also, pay me more at the expense of others.

 

And then they didn’t win again and the franchise went to shit for 7 years. 
 

That’s also part of his legacy.
 

 

 

We are getting into the minutia here, and as previously mentioned we largely agree that what you laid out above was the beginning of the descent into what we affectionately call the "Dark Ages", but I do need to fact check your indictment on a couple of points:

•  In Messier's last season he was still 14th in the league in goals; the decline was inevitable but really did not start in earnest until he got to Vancouver.
• As detrimental as those moves were(and I have no doubt that he had influence on them), those are accountable to Neil Smith. If you consider they were in Messier's final season and that he had to be figuring out how to get rid of Messier while he made those trades.   
• Regarding holding up the organization for more money, that was well in his rights given that he helped deliver 1994 and there was no salary cap in place. MSG Entertainment was making money hand over foot at the time. Especially when you look down the hallway and you see Patrick Ewing getting the monster contract that he did for choking in the Finals; I can't fault any athlete in that position for trying to squeeze every penny out of his accomplishment. 

[MuddyInTheMiddle]

2 hours ago, Pete said:

Nah, he couldn't handle being bullied by a guy who was at the end of the line and didn't want to see younger, fresher talent replace him.

 

Please do tell...who are these people?

 

Off the top of my head: Artemi Panarin or Dominic Moore?

[MuddyInTheMiddle]

14 hours ago, Pete said:

Agree. Not sure how anyone can say Jagr and Francis weren't finesse players, Murray and Smolinski sure. But not the first 2.

 

Never said either didn't have a finesse element to their game, but Jagr was probably one of the hardest players in the game to knock off of the puck. Rangersin7's original post said that team was "all finesse", I was simply just making the point that while they were a very highly skilled team with an abundance of finesse, they  were certainly not "all finesse".

[Pete]

47 minutes ago, MuddyInTheMiddle said:

 

Off the top of my head: Artemi Panarin or Dominic Moore?

That's one opinion, sure. I don't know how you could say they have more guts unless you were sitting next to them in the locker room, isn't that the standard you set? 

 

I won't get into the fact that Bread didn't defect at 17 and Moore didn't lose his wife at 17. Nedved defected and left his family in Czechoslovakia where they were at risk simply because he decided to leave. 

 

Not really sure how you're making that comparison but whatever.

Edited May 23 by Pete

[RangersIn7]

1 hour ago, MuddyInTheMiddle said:

 

Sure; let's hear them. Why not?

 

I'll try not to be as sensitive about it as you seem to be.

Not sensitive.

 

Just can’t stand O’Reilly. Glad his career is over

[RangersIn7]

22 minutes ago, MuddyInTheMiddle said:

 

Never said either didn't have a finesse element to their game, but Jagr was probably one of the hardest players in the game to knock off of the puck. Rangersin7's original post said that team was "all finesse", I was simply just making the point that while they were a very highly skilled team with an abundance of finesse, they  were certainly not "all finesse".

Jagr had that giant ass and yes, he was very strong.

All finesse is probably an overstatement. But you get what I’m saying. 

[MuddyInTheMiddle]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

That's one opinion, sure. I don't know how you could say they have more guts unless you were sitting next to them in the locker room, isn't that the standard you set? 

 

I won't get into the fact that Bread didn't defect at 17 and Moore didn't lose his wife at 17. Nedved defected and left his family in Czechoslovakia where they were at risk simply because he decided to leave. 

 

Not really sure how you're making that comparison but whatever.

 

Time out.

 

Someone commented that there were other people that have had harder trials and tribulations, and you asked "who" as if having a tough road to the NHL was somehow unique to Peter Nedved. Off the top of my head I named 2 players who have not necessarily had it easy either.

 

Have no desire to get into a morbid comparison of who has had it the toughest; am also unqualified to make that judgement. All three were dealt shitty hands in life, that I would not wish on an enemy. Let's leave it at that.

 

That is the reality the reality of the NHL and professional sports. If you are that skilled, lucky enough to get an opportunity and have something to offer a team that helps them win, you get an almost 7 figure salary and all of the perks of being a professional athlete. 

 

  

[MuddyInTheMiddle]

1 hour ago, RangersIn7 said:

Not sensitive.

 

Just can’t stand O’Reilly. Glad his career is over

 

Agree. Where are those quotes from Matt Lauer and Harvey Weinstein that you promised me?

[RangersIn7]

9 hours ago, Rangers1994 said:

 

 

In all fairness, Messier didn't tell Smith which players to trade.  That's on Neil Smith.

Oh the buck surely stops with Smith.

But those trades don’t likely happen if not at the urging of Mess

[Puck Head]

I remember Nedved playing in Seattle and my buddies telling me a kim.
Nedved was 17 when he had to defect and leave his family. 

 

Moore was 33, had attended Harvard, and had 10 years in the NHL before his wife got cancer. 
 

hard to compare the two stages of their lives. And as mentioned earlier, Messier wouldn’t have had a clue as to real world struggle. 
 

 

Edited May 23 by Puck Head

[Blue Heaven]

Nedved was really able to rip the puck......30 feet high and wide.

[Pete]

3 minutes ago, Blue Heaven said:

Nedved was really able to rip the puck......30 feet high and wide.

And yet somehow a 14% career shooter. Ovechkin...12.9%

[Albatrosss]

to be frank Nedved probably lived with a billet family since he was probably around 14.  

[Blue Heaven]

2 hours ago, Pete said:

And yet somehow a 14% career shooter. Ovechkin...12.9%

Just curious, what was his shooting percentage as a Ranger?  

 

I didnt hate the guy, just hated the trades for him and then the trade to ship him off.   All the potential just like Kovalev but couldnt put it all together on a consistent basis as a Ranger. 

 

And since we are discussing former Rangers/Penguins player, took a pic with Darius Kasperminus before the game yesterday, and that dude is still built like an ox.  

Edited May 23 by Blue Heaven

[Albatrosss]

11 minutes ago, Blue Heaven said:

Just curious, what was his shooting percentage as a Ranger?  

 

I didnt hate the guy, just hated the trades for him and then the trade to ship him off.   All the potential just like Kovalev but couldnt put it all together on a consistent basis as a Ranger. 

 

And since we are discussing former Rangers/Penguins player, took a pic with Darius Kasperminus before the game yesterday, and that dude is still built like an ox.  

post the pic