Rangers, Jets Involved in Negotiations for Pierre-Luc Dubois Trade

[jsm7302]

13 minutes ago, RJWantsTheCup said:

Here's a crazy thought.  Since we have Panarin and Lafraniere for left wing why not see what teams offer for Kreider?  It's more than likely he's never getting close to 52 goals in a season again.   Sell when his value is the highest.  Doesn't hurt to at least gauge the market on him.

I have thought about this ad nauseum. I feel it may gut the room. Kreids and Zib are the obvious leaders of this group together. I dont think the org would do it. It does seem to make the most sense though when vetting out the lineup.

 

I remember being floored when they extended Kreids for so long. I was positive he was heading to FA. 

 

With that said, the kid line then becomes line 2 and line 1 looks like PP1 with a yet to be determined RW. AND...our salary headaches go away.

[Br4d]

Kreider is a big part of PP1.  Trading him takes away the big goal scorer on the PP.

 

Moving him to RW makes more sense.  It solves the glut of talent at LW and allows either Panarin or Lafreniere to move up to line 1.  Panarin fits with Zib and Kreider more from a style standpoint however that move takes a lot of the Rangers talent and concentrates it on one line and we saw how hard Carolina and TB worked to shut down the line they perceived as a threat.  Might work for the regular season but once you get into May and June it probably causes problems.

 

Lafreniere is another guy you'd like to have establish himself in front of the net and so he and Kreider maybe are not ideal linemates, however he works very hard in the corners and forechecks well and maybe he Zib and Kreider are what the doctor ordered.  That lets the Rangers setup line 2 around Panarin, like last season, and leaves Chytil and probably Kakko on line 3.

[jsm7302]

10 minutes ago, Br4d said:

Kreider is a big part of PP1.  Trading him takes away the big goal scorer on the PP.

 

Moving him to RW makes more sense.  It solves the glut of talent at LW and allows either Panarin or Lafreniere to move up to line 1.  Panarin fits with Zib and Kreider more from a style standpoint however that move takes a lot of the Rangers talent and concentrates it on one line and we saw how hard Carolina and TB worked to shut down the line they perceived as a threat.  Might work for the regular season but once you get into May and June it probably causes problems.

 

Lafreniere is another guy you'd like to have establish himself in front of the net and so he and Kreider maybe are not ideal linemates, however he works very hard in the corners and forechecks well and maybe he Zib and Kreider are what the doctor ordered.  That lets the Rangers setup line 2 around Panarin, like last season, and leaves Chytil and probably Kakko on line 3.

I'm down for Laf moving to RW. They tried Kreids there for a short stint and moved him back to his natural lw last season. He then scored 50+ goals. Put Laf at RW on line 1. I like the idea. 

[RJWantsTheCup]

The idea behind moving Kreider would be in clearing cap space to address the center position.  This team always has center depth problems.  At some point you have to trade from strengths to address weaknesses.  

[Capt]

13 hours ago, Pete said:

They make less because they're nowhere near as good as Panarin LOL. 

 

Doesn't matter. He's not going anywhere. 

I actually think Kreider at $6.5M is a better player than Panarin is at $11.6M.  You just can't ignore cap hits when evaluating players.  Kreider is probably more tradeable too because of the cap hit.  Look I'm fine with moving on with any of the three if it means finding an actual legit #2 center.  I just think the only way you have depth and a legit top 6 is parting ways with the guy making $11.6M.  Besides Kravstov can fill the desire for soft Russians for years to come.

[Pete]

Panarin isn't getting traded. I think we've spent enough time repeating ourselves. 

[BrooksBurner]

For argument's sake, let's say you replace Panarin's $11.6M with a JT Miller or a Nazem Kadri at $8.5M. You've freed up enough money to maybe sign a Frank Vatrano. Is a Miller/Vatrano or Kadri/Vatrano combination more valuable than a Panarin/ELC ?

 

I'd still take Panarin.

[BrooksBurner]

Just now, Pete said:

Panarin isn't getting traded. I think we've spent enough time repeating ourselves. 

 

Also this.

[jsm7302]

1 hour ago, Capt said:

I actually think Kreider at $6.5M is a better player than Panarin is at $11.6M.  You just can't ignore cap hits when evaluating players.  Kreider is probably more tradeable too because of the cap hit.  Look I'm fine with moving on with any of the three if it means finding an actual legit #2 center.  I just think the only way you have depth and a legit top 6 is parting ways with the guy making $11.6M.  Besides Kravstov can fill the desire for soft Russians for years to come.

Well statistically Panarin has doubled or more than doubled Kreiders point totals year after year and had a positive +/- (except this sole year). So with that said, he actually is a bargain from that POV.  By those standards he would need to be making 13 mil+ per season.

 

Anyways, part with Kreider and upgrade 2c seems to be a reasonable thought process. Laf moves up and our top two lines balance out. 

[josh]

Trade Panarin and Kreider for picks? Maybe lottery picks. Those always work out well. 

[Capt]

8 minutes ago, josh said:

Trade Panarin and Kreider for picks? Maybe lottery picks. Those always work out well. 

Yeah that's what I said.  

 

Complain about 5 on 5 play.  Complain about the second line center.  Complain that depth is going to take a huge hit this off season.  Yet nobody here has given one realistic way to fix all or any of these problems.  The salary cap makes for tough decisions and imperfect teams.  The goal should be to improve not to hit our peak after one failed playoff run.  Is it possible to trade Kreider for top 6 center than they should do it.  That fixes one part of the problem.  Most importantly it doesn't even fix the real cap crunch coming next off season.  

 

In the best case scenario the kids do take huge strides.  Laf scores 30/60 and Chytil becomes a force and true top 6 center.  Great, how in the world are the Rangers paying them and Miller?  Where are they coming up with the cap space?  It seems reasonable to me that the Rangers should be building around Fox, Miller, Igor, Laf, Kakko, Kravstov, Schneider, Chytil.   Kravtsov is on a one year deal too.  What if he's someone they want to lock up long term?  

 

I just feel like the Rangers should be placing their bets with the guys they drafted with lottery pick after lottery pick. Them panning out as the franchise core is the only road to a cup.  The cap makes that the case.  Watching these guys leave at 23 because they have no cap space to keep them seems like the whole rebuild was a waste of time.  Here we are in year 1 of making the playoffs and already caped out like they have won a cup.  Something has to give and something will give.  

 

Can somebody give a scenario how this team improves on Ryan Strome centering the second line without having a minor league fourth line?  Can somebody give a scenario how they avoid somebody worse than Strome centering that line.  

[josh]

I think we have to understand, and have stated, that because of cap restraints, the inability to replace Strome, Copp, Vatrano, and Motte may result in a slight setback in overall results. 

[Ozzy]

48 minutes ago, josh said:

Trade Panarin and Kreider for picks? Maybe lottery picks. Those always work out well. 

 

Get rid of that damn Fox guy too!!  Ugh!!!  ...maybe get us back a solid 3rd rounder!!  LOL

[BrooksBurner]

5 minutes ago, Capt said:

Yeah that's what I said.  

 

Complain about 5 on 5 play.  Complain about the second line center.  Complain that depth is going to take a huge hit this off season.  Yet nobody here has given one realistic way to fix all or any of these problems.  The salary cap makes for tough decisions and imperfect teams.  The goal should be to improve not to hit our peak after one failed playoff run.  Is it possible to trade Kreider for top 6 center than they should do it.  That fixes one part of the problem.  Most importantly it doesn't even fix the real cap crunch coming next off season.  

 

Many different routes have been suggested. I think this offseason is much worse of a cap crunch than next offseason, and we all knew this summer's crunch was coming. The Rangers will probably just have to weather the storm for a year before being able to improve on the things they need to improve on.

 

Quote

In the best case scenario the kids do take huge strides.  Laf scores 30/60 and Chytil becomes a force and true top 6 center.  Great, how in the world are the Rangers paying them and Miller?  Where are they coming up with the cap space?  It seems reasonable to me that the Rangers should be building around Fox, Miller, Igor, Laf, Kakko, Kravstov, Schneider, Chytil.   Kravtsov is on a one year deal too.  What if he's someone they want to lock up long term?  

 

Cross that bridge when and, more importantly, if it even comes. If they don't commit any money to UFAs/RFAs past this season, other than to Kakko for about ~$2.5M, they will have plenty of cap to take care of who they need to take care of amongst Lafreniere, Miller, Kravtsov, Chytil, and even Blais, along with filling out the last few players in the bottom 6 and a backup goalie. They have at least two cheap forward recruitments on the way at that point (Othmann, Cuylle). They can also free up another $2.5M by dumping Nemeth, which is even easier to do (buyout or cheaper cap dump trade) if they deal with him on the roster for one more year. This is not that dire of a situation, unless they do something batshit stupid like sign Kadri to $8.5M and wiggle around to make it work this season.

 

Quote

I just feel like the Rangers should be placing their bets with the guys they drafted with lottery pick after lottery pick. Them panning out as the franchise core is the only road to a cup.  The cap makes that the case.  Watching these guys leave at 23 because they have no cap space to keep them seems like the whole rebuild was a waste of time.  Here we are in year 1 of making the playoffs and already caped out like they have won a cup.  Something has to give and something will give.  

 

Nah. The veteran core has plenty of gas in the tank to be a serious Cup contender over the next 3 years. There will probably be a step back next season due to the cap squeeze as everyone has been saying, but there should be high hopes the following year with the veteran core supplemented by the kids who have progressed. And the kids who have not progressed get traded and filled with useful players to fill the gaps. Not all of these kids are taking a step forward so big next year that they all will command high $. It's just not happening. And if it does, that's amazing and the Rangers will probably trade one of them for a high price. It's not realistic to expect all of the kids to be here long term. If you haven't acknowledged that, you should probably start so it's easier to take when one or more of them are traded. It might even be this offseason.

 

Quote

Can somebody give a scenario how this team improves on Ryan Strome centering the second line without having a minor league fourth line?  Can somebody give a scenario how they avoid somebody worse than Strome centering that line.  

 

Well, in the scenario you paint, Chytil is among the guys who blows up and needs a lot of money next summer, so maybe that's how? Or they trade a kid (and their future salary) for a young 2C like PLD.

[Capt]

31 minutes ago, josh said:

I think we have to understand, and have stated, that because of cap restraints, the inability to replace Strome, Copp, Vatrano, and Motte may result in a slight setback in overall results. 

Ok, so the consensus is that Rangers will be worse next year.  So the letter for the rebuild and the years of losing was aimed at one playoff run.  Maybe they should send out another letter.  

 

Does anyone really believe the Rangers aren't making a big splash with a trade this summer?  Does anyone really believe they are standing pat and going into next year knowing they are going to get worse?  That is not how this franchise operates and that goes in direct contradiction on what they did at this past trade deadline.  They view their window as open and they are not giving up a season to wait for next year.  

 

As unlikely as it is they trade Panarin it's even more unlikely they don't bring in someone with credentials to center the second line.  The only question is how they get cap compliant to do so.  

 

I'm in the camp of not trading the kids for another flawed Strome replacement.  

 

It's very likely PLD, Schifiele or Miller ends up here this summer.  My fear is not that Chytil or Kakko be the centerpiece going the other way.  My fear is that next summer they will be in even tighter cap restraints and Miller or Laf will be a casualty as well.  

[jsm7302]

K'Andre Miller for JT Miller; do you do it? It hurts because K'Andre is one of my favorites on the roster right now but it definitely makes the team more solid up front.

[Capt]

12 minutes ago, jsm7302 said:

K'Andre Miller for JT Miller; do you do it? It hurts because K'Andre is one of my favorites on the roster right now but it definitely makes the team more solid up front.

No but even if you wanted to how do you make the cap work?

[jsm7302]

1 hour ago, Capt said:

No but even if you wanted to how do you make the cap work?

Ridding Nemeth is enough to make JT Miller fit. Next year we will need to extend him but no question it makes us better up front. Honestly, Fox and Miller could be interchangeable and we have a glut of D prospect help to fill in.

 

Gotta deal from a position of strength to stay competitive while still upgrading as a team.

 

I love K'Andre but in a one for one deal, I think the team gets better.

[Br4d]

Consolidating several young prospects into one core player who is nearing UFA is not the way around the cap problem.

 

The way around the cap problem is taking one guy who is going to get paid next year and turning him into several young prospects.

 

That's why K'Andre for Dubois is just a disaster in the making.  The Rangers would just be accelerating the young guys cap impacts by a year and leaving us in the same situation we'll be in next year anyway.  It's going to be just as hard to manage the cap paying Dubois and Laf that it is to pay Miller and Laf.

 

What they probably should be doing is figuring out which of the young defensemen they are going to keep and trading the one less likely to be here longterm for several young prospects including a decent C and/or RW.

 

Fox is here with a long-term deal.  Lindgren has a cap friendly deal through '24.  Miller is due next year for a bridge contract or an offer sheet from somebody else.  Schneider is due in 2024.

 

So if you really think Miller is a keeper then the likely trade-off is Lindgren.  His deal is cap friendly for whoever acquires him and he definitely has the value to pull a decent young C/RW+ in a deal.