NFL Brian Flores Sues NFL, Claiming Bias in Giants Coaching Search

[The Dude]

On 2/2/2022 at 9:54 AM, Blue Heaven said:

and their is still 1 black head coach

But there have been how many since? People get fired. Unless your Mike Tomlin. Does he keep his job just because he's black? 

[Pete]

The NFL has had more than 500 head coaches over the course of more than a century of competition. 24 of them have been Black.

Edited February 6, 2022 by Pete

[BrooksBurner]

The Giants had a black GM for like 10 years. They just had a black DC who they tried to keep, but he chose to go to the Raiders instead a couple days ago. Calling the organization racist is just some good old fashioned race baiting.

 

The Rooney Rule, however, is both garbage AND racist. The NFL needs to change it. Black coaches in the NFL don’t need hand outs to get interviews. There are lots of qualified candidates who will get interviews based solely on merit when spots open up.

[BrooksBurner]

Dupe. Delete

Edited February 7, 2022 by rmc51

[Pete]

If that were true there wouldn't be a Rooney Rule.

 

[BrooksBurner]

And now a black assistant GM. What a racist organization the Giants are. Bad reach by Flores in what otherwise might be a legitimate case against the Dolphins (offering to pay for tanking) and the NFL (Rooney Rule).

 

https://twitter.com/Giants/status/1490715087249752064

 

[Pete]

Yea, I mean I'm sure there's no ulterior motive, after the lawsuit. I'm sure it's totally on the up and up.

[BrooksBurner]

Jerry Reese says you’re wrong

[Pete]

So, let's not move the goalposts. Flores is accusing the Giants of racist hiring practices which in this case means a violation of the Rooney Rule. 

 

If there was a decision made on a hire without meeting a minority candidate, that's a violation. 

 

Really has nothing to do with whomever was hired by other people to hold a different position. 

[BrooksBurner]

Agreed that it sounds like they violated the Rooney Rule through their high preference for Daboll out of the gate, though that is based solely on the Belichik texts. It’s possible he was wrong on how solidified that decision was. There was smoke around Daboll going to Miami too, so the Giants probably had to move quicker as not to lose out on who they thought was “their guy” based on the interviews to that point. Plus the clear linkage to Schoen in Buffalo.
 

Disagreed that violation of the rule equals racism. Who they’ve employed, and for how long, absolutely matters when levying such a claim.

 

Let’s not conflate racism with violation of the rule.

Edited February 7, 2022 by rmc51

[Pete]

When you violate a rule that's there because of racism, you can absolutely say the rule violations is a racist hiring practice.

[josh]

Quote

As of 2020, the NFL has three African-American head coaches, the same number as in 2003 when the Rooney Rule was adopted

 

But hey, at least they have a rule to interview black guys to save face.

 

It's the equivalent to the equal rights job amendment guaranteeing women are paid the same as men that democrats pass through every 2 years, even though there are already multiple laws already in place.

 

They literally bring in minorities for entertainment requirements. Great rule.

[Pete]

Yea, I mean god forbid they actually hire one!

[BrooksBurner]

You cannot prove that the Giants wanted to hire Daboll with the stipulation that at least part of the reason for that was they didn’t want a black man as coach. What you can potentially prove is that they knew they were going to hire Daboll based on his completed interviews and familiarity with the new GM, regardless of how the Flores interview went. That’s a violation of the rule with no ties to racism.

 

The rule, I think, had good intentions for what was a larger problem 20 years ago, and may still be a problem within certain organizations in the league with some of these crusty old white owners, but it was always a bad approach. It has clearly evolved even further to be pretty degrading against black candidates moreso than helpful.

[Pete]

The violation of the rule is the racist practice, in this case.

[LindG1000]

There's a functional argument here as to whether or not the Rooney rule has been effective, but if the Giants had indeed hired or made their decision on Daboll and merely interviewed Flores to be compliant with the rule, there's an obvious issue with that.

[Dunny]

This happens to DeMarlo Hale almost every god damn year. 

[josh]

4 hours ago, rmc51 said:

You cannot prove that the Giants wanted to hire Daboll with the stipulation that at least part of the reason for that was they didn’t want a black man as coach. What you can potentially prove is that they knew they were going to hire Daboll based on his completed interviews and familiarity with the new GM, regardless of how the Flores interview went. That’s a violation of the rule with no ties to racism.

 

The rule, I think, had good intentions for what was a larger problem 20 years ago, and may still be a problem within certain organizations in the league with some of these crusty old white owners, but it was always a bad approach. It has clearly evolved even further to be pretty degrading against black candidates moreso than helpful.

The problem is there are not enough good minority candidates. Making more rules doesn’t change that. 
 

 

[josh]

3 hours ago, G1000 said:

There's a functional argument here as to whether or not the Rooney rule has been effective, but if the Giants had indeed hired or made their decision on Daboll and merely interviewed Flores to be compliant with the rule, there's an obvious issue with that.

What’s the issue? 

they met the obligations of the rule. Rule doesn’t require hiring. 

[LindG1000]

11 hours ago, josh said:

What’s the issue? 

they met the obligations of the rule. Rule doesn’t require hiring. 

The rule requires fairness in the hiring practice, so if they indeed committed to Daboll and only brought Flores in to produce the image of being compliant with the rule, that's a problem. 

 

It does not require that Flores is hired, it merely requires that a minority is interviewed fairly.

[Pete]

11 hours ago, josh said:

there are not enough good minority candidates

How do you know?

[josh]

3 hours ago, Pete said:

How do you know?

because forcing them to interview minorities hasnt resulted in any more hires, college or pros. 
 

it’s not 1807 anymore. 

[Pete]

1 minute ago, josh said:

because forcing them to interview minorities hasnt resulted in any more hires, college or pros. 
 

it’s not 1807 anymore. 

So there aren't more minority head coaches in the NFL simply because there are not enough good minority candidates...And it has absolutely nothing to do with the NFL teams being owned by white men. A sport that's historically had more black players than white players can't find enough smart black guys to have more than 1-2 black coaches at a time?

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

So there aren't more minority head coaches in the NFL simply because there are not enough good minority candidates...And it has absolutely nothing to do with the NFL teams being owned by white men. A sport that's historically had more black players than white players can't find enough smart black guys to have more than 1-2 black coaches at a time?

I think this argument is flawed.

 

The owners want to earn money and win right? That's the ultimate and only goal.

 

Is it not weird that these old white dudes have no problem having black players, black assistant coaches or generally black employees in the org, but having black head coaches - that's where they draw the "racist over profit" line? That doesn't really make sense to me.

 

Or is it some kind of conspiracy from all the white owners and HC's that they want the black people away from the top positions even if it would give them a better chance at winning?

[Pete]

3 minutes ago, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

Or is it some kind of conspiracy from all the white owners and HC's that they want the black people away from the top positions even if it would give them a better chance at winning?

Dude, they weren't even interviewing minority candidates!