Jordan Subban Faces Racist Gesture During ECHL Game

[josh]

6 minutes ago, Karan said:

 

So where does it go from here now that Panetta has come out and made that statement and effectively pleading non-guilty, but in the meantime the jury (i.e. ECHL, the Icemen and even the refs on the ice) have already decided he's not guilty based on the evidence available on the spot. Is it going to end up with the lawyers? 

 

It's already been decided he's guilty by social media experts. Case closed.

[Phil]

Yes, probably.

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

14 hours ago, Karan said:

Is it going to end up with the lawyers? 

If I'm Panetta and I know that I'm innocent then yes. His reputation is already ruined, a lawsuit is probably the only thing that could partly save it.

 

You know it's a mess when the guy has to write "non racialized players".

[Pete]

1 hour ago, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

"non racialized players".

This is...not even...a real thing.

 

At least not that I've ever heard of.

Edited January 26, 2022 by Pete

[Phil]

I’ve never heard that phrase either.

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

Me neither, but I guess he was trying to not hurt anyone's feelings, which is not an easy thing to do in 2022.

[LindG1000]

44 minutes ago, Phil said:

I’ve never heard that phrase either.

 

Ditto. Never heard the phrase "non-racialized" in my life.

 

I think I know what he's trying to say. It's not helping. 

[Pete]

31 minutes ago, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

Me neither, but I guess he was trying to not hurt anyone's feelings, which is not an easy thing to do in 2022.

"Person of color" too hard to remember?

 

It just kinda goes to show his mindset where he literally has made zero effort to understand the impact of the gestures, no matter his intent.

[Phil]

Even though he didn't offer much in the way of a solution, I thought Friedman's thoughts on this were on point:

 

Quote

Three times in the last month, there’ve been incidents where a Black or Biracial player was on the receiving end of the “monkey gesture” in a professional game -- Derek Joslin in Europe on Dec. 27; Boko Imama in the AHL on Jan. 12, although it did not reach the mainstream until Krystof Hrabik was suspended last Friday; and, one day later, Jordan Subban in the ECHL.

 

Imagine the cumulative effect. Three times in 26 days. Pause and think about that for a second. And we’re not even including what happened to Jalen Smereck, which was disgusting.

 

In all three cases, the players who committed the offence used the same defence: they were making the “tough guy” pose, mocking their opponents for acting like they were going to do something while the referees separated players. In a statement, Hrabik maintained he didn’t mean anything racial, while accepting his punishment and vowing to do better. Jacob Panetta, suspended for the Subban incident, posted an emotional apology, adding video of himself doing the same gesture in previous games as proof he didn’t mean anything racial.

 

Panetta (and Hrabik) deserve the opportunity to prove themselves right, show their intentions were not how they appeared. But, honestly, how can anyone blame or question Subban -- or anyone else of colour, including his family -- from being furious that it even occurred? We were barely 24 hours past the AHL suspension.

 

Quote

The incident with Derek Joslin did not receive gigantic coverage. But people in hockey knew it happened. That’s the mistake, that’s where this broke down. Everyone -- leagues, teams, players’ associations, agents, the players themselves -- should have been all over it. There should have been a massive “DON’T DO THIS” warning everywhere: “You may think you’re doing the ‘tough guy’ thing, but that’s not how it’s going to be interpreted.”

 

And if it didn’t happen then, it should have happened in tandem with the AHL punishment. Everywhere: DON’T DO THIS.

 

I love hockey. There’s so much greatness about it. I’ve learned so much about what it takes to be successful; it’s made me a better person. I really believe there’s room for everyone in it. But sometimes our wounds are self-inflicted and this was a perfect example.

 

We should have been more proactive. Instead, we are where we are. An explosive, massively damaging moment for everyone involved, with long-term repercussions.

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/32-thoughts-lesson-learn/

[Pete]

7 minutes ago, Phil said:

Even though he didn't offer much in the way of a solution, I thought Friedman's thoughts on this were on point:

 

 

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/32-thoughts-lesson-learn/

Exactly the point I was trying to make above. 

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

So the answer to the non racial action (The "tough pose") is to not do it because someone misinterprets the meaning of it? That doesn't sound inclusive, nor like a sustainable practice. Where goes the line here really? Or is it up to "people of color" to decide everything that is racist and not?

 

There's gotta be a better solution then "Just don't to it against people of color".

 

Now IF he said some racial slurs or anything while he did it it's a completely different situation ofcourse.

[Pete]

5 minutes ago, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

So the answer to the non racial action (The "tough pose") is to not do it because someone misinterprets the meaning of it? That doesn't sound inclusive, nor like a sustainable practice. Where goes the line here really? Or is it up to "people of color" to decide everything that is racist and not?

 

There's gotta be a better solution then "Just don't to it against people of color".

 

Now IF he said some racial slurs or anything while he did it it's a completely different situation ofcourse.

The word "inclusive" doesn't mean you just accept everything.

 

If something bothers a group of people that much, what's so hard about not doing it?

 

Is anyone going to argue that the need to make that pose trumps the fact that a large group of people find it offensive? Find another way to make your tough guy point.

 

And yes, it's up to POC to decide what offends POC. You know who it's not up to to decide what should offend POC? White people.

Edited January 26, 2022 by Pete

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

1 minute ago, Pete said:

The word "inclusive" doesn't mean you just accept everything.

 

If something bothers a group of people that much, what's so hard about not doing it?

 

Is anyone going to argue that the need to make they put 10

I agree. And if he got his feelings hurt over the "tough pose" he's allowed to say that. But don't bring in racism and ruin the kids life when there's NOTHING suggesting that had anything to do with his skin color.

 

He showed proof that he does the exact same thing against white players. Then how is it racism?

 

And I've not seen before that making a "tough pose" to a person of color bothers them, so how would he know? 

[Phil]

8 minutes ago, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

so how would he know? 

 

Because a player was literally just suspended for doing the same exactly thing not 24 hours before that game.

[LindG1000]

2 minutes ago, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

I agree. And if he got his feelings hurt over the "tough pose" he's allowed to say that. But don't bring in racism and ruin the kids life when there's NOTHING suggesting that had anything to do with his skin color.

 

He showed proof that he does the exact same thing against white players. Then how is it racism?

 

And I've not seen before that making a "tough pose" to a person of color bothers them, so how would he know? 

 

Because context matters. 

 

It's so easy to not do a tough-guy pose to intimidate a black player that doesn't reference a monkey, gorilla, whatever. Bicep flex, strongman pose, the Rocky Balboa - the options are limitless. He chose to do it anyway, and Subban read it based on his experience. His intentions matter far, far less than his decisionmaking and the impact it had on Subban. 

[Phil]

Also, this exact pose, has been used, and criticized three times in the last month. From Friedman's article:

 

"there’ve been incidents where a Black or Biracial player was on the receiving end of the “monkey gesture” in a professional game -- Derek Joslin in Europe on Dec. 27; Boko Imama in the AHL on Jan. 12, although it did not reach the mainstream until Krystof Hrabik was suspended last Friday; and, one day later, Jordan Subban in the ECHL. "

 

Hrabik was suspended ONE DAY before Panetta did it, too. Does he live under a rock? Does he not have a cell phone? Does he never go on the internet. Hockey's big, but it's not that big. Very small world. I don't buy for a second he didn't hear about any of these incidents.

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

Yeah I guess. Still a lot of assumptions tho. We can't really know what he did before the game, or what he was thinking about in the heat of the moment. He's probably been in a lot of scrums and fights during his young career. If that pose has been "his thing" it's easy to go back to that when you're tired/angry/annoyed and want to piss off an opponent.

 

Anyway, I'm not gonna go any further on this. I just hope they don't ruin this kids career and life because of a two second incident that I don't think he meant anything racist with.

[Long live the King]

Not defending this guy, he's an idiot, but I wouldn't expect some random ECHL player to be following suspensions from Europe or the AHL.

[Pete]

33 minutes ago, Long live the King said:

Not defending this guy, he's an idiot, but I wouldn't expect some random ECHL player to be following suspensions from Europe or the AHL.

I feel this way, too. I follow almost all the "must follows" for hockey and didn't see anything about the AHL suspension until after this happened.

[Phil]

2 hours ago, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

Yeah I guess. Still a lot of assumptions tho. We can't really know what he did before the game, or what he was thinking about in the heat of the moment. He's probably been in a lot of scrums and fights during his young career. If that pose has been "his thing" it's easy to go back to that when you're tired/angry/annoyed and want to piss off an opponent.

 

Anyway, I'm not gonna go any further on this. I just hope they don't ruin this kids career and life because of a two second incident that I don't think he meant anything racist with.

 

We probably agree more than we disagree here. Whether he intended it as a racist gesture or not, he deserves every opportunity to defend his name, and to, hopefully, earn back the trust of his peers.

 

2 hours ago, Long live the King said:

Not defending this guy, he's an idiot, but I wouldn't expect some random ECHL player to be following suspensions from Europe or the AHL.

 

1 hour ago, Pete said:

I feel this way, too. I follow almost all the "must follows" for hockey and didn't see anything about the AHL suspension until after this happened.

 

Fair enough. I feel like if you're playing hockey, you'd be a little more plugged into this sorts of things, but that's conjecture on my part (as I'm clearly not in the ECHL, or playing professionally anywhere).

[Albatrosss]

22 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

We probably agree more than we disagree here. Whether he intended it as a racist gesture or not, he deserves every opportunity to defend his name, and to, hopefully, earn back the trust of his peers.

 

 

 

Fair enough. I feel like if you're playing hockey, you'd be a little more plugged into this sorts of things, but that's conjecture on my part (as I'm clearly not in the ECHL, or playing professionally anywhere).

you're a professional here, Phil

Edited January 26, 2022 by CCCP

[BlairBettsBlocksEverything]

5 hours ago, Pete said:

This is...not even...a real thing.

 

At least not that I've ever heard of.

regardless of whether or not he is a racist, he is most certainly stupid

[Phil]

1 hour ago, CCCP said:

you're a professional here, Phil

 

Nah, I just play one on an internet forum.

[Pete]

2 hours ago, Phil said:

 

Nah, I just play one on an internet forum.

And even that performance is lacking..

[Phil]

19 minutes ago, Pete said:

And even that performance is lacking..