Contenders/Pretenders/In-Between

[Vodka Drunkenski]

Certainly in-between, the thing that sticks out most to me is the goal differential of all the top teams.

 

Merry Christmas

[Phil]

I wouldn't even say in between, I'd say TBD. There's still a chunk of the season to play, and one or two strategic trades can dramatically change the measure of who they are.

Bing bong, FYL.

[Vodka Drunkenski]

3 minutes ago, Phil said:

I wouldn't even say in between, I'd say TBD. There's still a chunk of the season to play, and one or two strategic trades can dramatically change the measure of who they are.

Bing bong, FYL.

Obviously trades changes things but right now as constructed, they’re in-between.  I like the direction and Zib needs to get going

[Karan]

Bust.

 

Edit - Oops sorry thought this was a Success/Bust/In-Between thread on Kravtsov. 

Edited December 16, 2021 by Karan

[fletch]

In between, a playoff team not yet ready to seriously contend for Cup.  Still a few holes in lineup (hopefully youth will grow into roles or trade acquisitions), still rare to be able to play a full 60 minutes (effort ebbs and flows).

[Ozzy]

I don't know, Vodka.  We're a very young team still, and yet our nucleus is pretty well set.  These kids are going to be here a long time, I think.  Guys like Kakko, Laf, Miller, Fox, Zibby, Panarin, etc.  They're all going to be the signature of this team for probably the next 5 to 10 years...some maybe more.

This is the squad we're pretty much going to war with, and I still don't really think we've even seen them play their best or terribly consistent yet...That's the scary part!

Right now they're winning games....regular season games.  Basically a "dress rehearsal" for the playoffs.  Hardly any of these kids have ever experienced the NHL playoffs as a player, and the ones that have, other than the obvious Goodrow, Reaves and a couple others are going to be worth their weight in gold when that time comes this season.

I think these guys are going to be for real, and like Phil said, there's a lot of time before April for these kids to learn and keep getting better.

I really love this team, and where they're going.  I feel they have the right guy behind the bench, and also in the GM box.  I think we're going to get a lot of things sorted out, and fill some holes before we make a run at it, but I think this is basically THE TEAM.  I'm sure Drury and Gallant are on board already with who's going and what we need to make a racket in the playoffs this season.

But I'm ready to start...and this year the window, in my book is OPEN FOR BUSINESS, my good man!!

Edited December 16, 2021 by Ozzy

[Valriera]

Pretty clearly in between but on the upswing, this has been huge growth year so far in team culture and how to win games, many of which we’d be losing last year, including last night

[siddious]

Just now, Valriera said:

Pretty clearly in between but on the upswing, this has been huge growth year so far in team culture and how to win games, many of which we’d be losing last year, including last night

This is mostly whats been keeping me satisfied this season. There has been a noticeable swagger to this team since the season started that hasnt been there in 2-3 years. Last year once they went down I almost always assumed they were going to lose that game. 

[Albatrosss]

Pretenders. Mostly because of the amount of non-NHL players on the team and Shesty masking a sure disaster 

[Vodka Drunkenski]

Credit to Gallant

[BlairBettsBlocksEverything]

lean towards contender. Although depends on what we mean by contender. Do I think the Rangers, as currently constructed, can win a cup? likely not. But can they make a run in the playoffs? absolutely. If the playoffs started today, they'd play Pittsburgh. We can absolutely beat Pittsburgh. I think their ceiling is a ECF spot (of course, all depends on what other teams do, what moves the Rangers make, etc.)

Has Shesty gotten us here? sure. But its not like he won't be here come playoff time (and if he's not, find me any good team who is still gonna be just as good without their #1 goalie). 

We are in 1st in the division and our 2nd best forward, Zibanejad, still hasn't REALLY gotten going yet. If he gets his game to where we have all seen it can get to, they can be dangerous in a playoff series. 

They can win low scoring games, and that will be critical come playoff time.

[ThirtyONE]

Funny because in the Arizona GDT people were saying that W felt like an L, to which I say, that W probably was an L the last three years.

Points are points, no matter how they get them. Style means nothing. Winning games and learning how to win is very very important (see Buffalo Sabres). No matter where they end up in the standings, so long as it's 8 or higher, this season would be a success. No matter how they do in the playoffs, even if it's a sweep in the 1st round, this season would be a success. 

Because you can build off those things. You can learn how to win "better" once you know how to win at all. 

So, contender? No. But they're vastly improved and they don't need to be a true contender yet. 

Deadline day will be interesting to see what Drury makes of it. 

[siddious]

Eh Ill be happy with a competitive series in the opening round of the playoffs. This team still has a ways to go before they reach the ECF. None of hte vets on this team have extensive playoff experience besides maybe Kreider and Trouba

[ThirtyONE]

1 minute ago, siddious said:

Eh Ill be happy with a competitive series in the opening round of the playoffs. This team still has a ways to go before they reach the ECF. None of hte vets on this team have extensive playoff experience besides maybe Kreider and Trouba

Goodrow? Reaves? They have vets that have been there. Multiple guys have rings. Experienced vets aren't the issue. The issue are inexperienced kids which can only get experience by doing it.

Making the playoffs would be a massive step for this organization and this core of youngsters.

[siddious]

3 minutes ago, ThirtyONE said:

Goodrow? Reaves? They have vets that have been there. Multiple guys have rings. Experienced vets aren't the issue. The issue are inexperienced kids which can only get experience by doing it.

Making the playoffs would be a massive step for this organization and this core of youngsters.

I forgot Goodrow lol

But my point still stands.. ill be happy with the playoff experience for the kids.

[ThirtyONE]

I don't want to change the direction of this threat too drastically but if we were able to lock up Strome for under 6, bridge Kakko, and bring in someone like Toews to be 3rd line center along with another RW -- I think we're actually contenders as soon as next season.

We're not far away. Just need to get our feet wet this year.

[josh]

probably at like a 7, 7.5

[Scott]

TBD - way different team with Igor at the peak of his game covering for a number of guys who have underachieved.  Can he stay healthy, can some others wake up and take the next step, others perform as they have in the past?  How much will Covid impact them.  

I think the jury is out, are they better as a whole, yes I give Gallant credit for sure if for no other reason he's not Quinn. 

[RichieNextel305]

Contenders for sure.

Are they ready to win? I mean, I have a really hard time seeing them win a 7-game series against a team that can play shutdown hockey. They’re still a little too much of a one trick pony for me.

But, I can promise you: no one will be thrilled to look at a bracket and see they’re matched up with the Rangers in a playoff series.

It’s still gonna take time and this season will be part of the process for sure, I would imagine. But that doesn’t mean they’re pretenders, or any less of a contender. When it’s all said and done, I would imagine they’ll be in the playoffs, they’re going to gain some experience and honestly, much sooner than later, this team is going to be absolutely horrifying to play in the playoffs. Once they comprehend how to win games without being overpowering offensively, and they’re not that far away from doing that, they’re gonna be tough. They already have another monster in Shesterkin, who along with their offensive firepower, represents another way this team can “steal” games in a playoff series.

[Sod16]

1 hour ago, RichieNextel305 said:

They already have another monster in Shesterkin, who along with their offensive firepower, represents another way this team can “steal” games in a playoff series.

Offensive firepower at 5 on 5?  Not happening.

[Keirik]

In todays NHL any team is a contender for a variety of reasons. There is no way we shouldn’t look at a team that gets into the playoffs as pretenders. I don’t care as much what their record is against opponent type X in December as much as I care if we are in a position of success in December that probably extends the same question to be asked in April. 
 

  We aren’t firing on all cylinders and yet we are getting results. A team learns more about itself through adversity during success than they do as bottom dwellers. The Quinn era taught us that. Now we are in a position of NHL relevancy where the adversity might teach us what we need to improve to change from being relevant to being a force.

 

[Winter]

3-7-3 versus relevant teams. -- Mostly getting smoked in those losses. (-21 goal difference) 

W: Preds, Leafs, Panthers

L: Preds, Leafs, Flames x2, Aves x2, Caps

OTL: Stars, Vegas, Oilers

 

Some can add the Bruins into a relevant team if you want to feel better about it but they suck, can't beat anyone relevant at all. 

 

My opinion on this data: Pretenders

Silver lining: most of this is west coast teams, we got an easy schedule to start, to work out kinks with new coach, going to get rough if we continue with a 23% win% vs. relevant teams. 

Edited December 18, 2021 by Winter

[Albatrosss]

6 hours ago, Keirik said:

In todays NHL any team is a contender for a variety of reasons. There is no way we shouldn’t look at a team that gets into the playoffs as pretenders. I don’t care as much what their record is against opponent type X in December as much as I care if we are in a position of success in December that probably extends the same question to be asked in April. 
 

  We aren’t firing on all cylinders and yet we are getting results. A team learns more about itself through adversity during success than they do as bottom dwellers. The Quinn era taught us that. Now we are in a position of NHL relevancy where the adversity might teach us what we need to improve to change from being relevant to being a force.

 

Disagree. Montreal last year going to the finals—-definitely pretenders

[Vodka Drunkenski]

4 hours ago, Winter said:

3-7-3 versus relevant teams. -- Mostly getting smoked in those losses. (-21 goal difference) 

W: Preds, Leafs, Panthers

L: Preds, Leafs, Flames x2, Aves x2, Caps

OTL: Stars, Vegas, Oilers

 

Some can add the Bruins into a relevant team if you want to feel better about it but they suck, can't beat anyone relevant at all. 

 

My opinion on this data: Pretenders

Silver lining: most of this is west coast teams, we got an easy schedule to start, to work out kinks with new coach, going to get rough if we continue with a 23% win% vs. relevant teams. 

They should’ve won all those OTL and the Caps was the first game of the season.  These stats don’t say pretenders but they don’t say contenders either

Edited December 18, 2021 by Vodka Drunkenski

[Keirik]

4 hours ago, CCCP said:

Disagree. Montreal last year going to the finals—-definitely pretenders

They got to the finals. I understand the difference between Tampa and Montreal but you’re in the finals. It can still go either way.