Hit And Have It Hurt

[Pete]

Sammy Blais, 6' 2", 205lbs
Barclay Goodrow, 6' 2", 215lbs
Ryan Reaves, 6' 1", 225lbs
Fuck it, I'll throw Krieder in there at 6' 3", 225lbs

Gone are the days of Ryan Callahan at 5' 10", 185lbs flinging his body at people and bouncing off with no change of possession, just hurt feelings. When these guys hit, the D will remember it. They'll be a much better 3rd period team because mistakes will be made by the other team's D when these guys are out, there will be pucks turned over.

Not only are they big, aside from Reaves (who was decent l/n), they can skate. Being physical isn't just about standing up for each other, that's defensive. Being physical also means asserting that will on other teams. If the larger skilled guys like Zib, Kakko, Kravtsov learn to even lean more on the opponent, this will be a very hard forward group to defend against, certainly harder than last season.

Edited September 29, 2021 by Pete

[Ozzy]

Can't say it any better than that, Pete!!

Having those types of players also opens up the option to play more of a cycle game in the offensive zone.

[Phil]

Yup, and not only can they hit to hurt, they instinctively want to. This was historically a big problem with waiting for "mean streaks" to "develop" in players they never manifested in. I do wonder if it'll keep up with Kreider — one of those waiting for it to develop types — but Blais, Goodrow, and Reaves all do this because it's hard-coded into their DNA. I'll even throw in Hunt here. He'll have less of an impact, literally, because he lacks the weight (6'0, 190), but you're not going to struggle getting him to buy in on being physical.

I think we're dramatically underrating the effect having multiple players like this can do for a team over the course of a full NHL season and especially in the playoffs.

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

59 minutes ago, Phil said:

Yup, and not only can they hit to hurt, they instinctively want to. This was historically a big problem with waiting for "mean streaks" to "develop" in players they never manifested in. I do wonder if it'll keep up with Kreider — one of those waiting for it to develop types — but Blais, Goodrow, and Reaves all do this because it's hard-coded into their DNA. I'll even throw in Hunt here. He'll have less of an impact, literally, because he lacks the weight (6'0, 190), but you're not going to struggle getting him to buy in on being physical.

I think we're dramatically underrating the effect having multiple players like this can do for a team over the course of a full NHL season and especially in the playoffs.

This.

I think Kreider is kinda a "lost case" in this regard, but I could really see it impact Kravtsov, Kakko and Lafreniere. Laf already has a mean streak with him (and he's 6'1), Kakko putting on weight and has gone out and said he needs to step up that part of his game and Krav seems interest in learning how to get tougher (or atleast to dance with Reaves).

[Drew a Penalty]

The bottom six as a whole is going to have a completely different feel to it.

It was evident in the first game when Chytil-Kravtsov were with Goodrow and subsequently without him. You could see them recede back into themselves and shy away from the physicality and cycling that they established in their first few shifts as a unit.

Chytil and Kravtsov are both 6"3" and either just above or just below 200 lbs. While I don't expect either to blow anyone up with hits, I think they'll wear teams down on the cycle for sure with Goodrow out there with them. Those are three guys with long reaches and good hands that are going to be annoying. Digging against the boards with them hounding you is probably a lot to deal with. Then you have to worry about Blais-Rooney-Reaves possibly breathing down your neck next.

Needless to say, I'm excited to see if the bottom six meets expectations. If they do, they'll be fun.

[Phil]

8 minutes ago, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

This.

I think Kreider is kinda a "lost case" in this regard, but I could really see it impact Kravtsov, Kakko and Lafreniere. Laf already has a mean streak with him (and he's 6'1), Kakko putting on weight and has gone out and said he needs to step up that part of his game and Krav seems interest in learning how to get tougher (or atleast to dance with Reaves).

Eh, see, this is where I diverge. I don't see it dramatically affecting any of them because none of them are instinctively physical. Same issue as McDonagh, Kreider, etc. from years past. The second the term "mean streak" enters the conversation, that player, to me, stops qualifying because the operative word in the phrase is streak, not mean. You are either mean, or you aren't. And by an dlarge, you simply can't teach people to be mean. Not this late in the game, at least. Kakko, Kravtsov, and Lafrenire are not mean and I wouldn't waste any energy hoping they'll suddenly wake up tomorrow with the sudden urge to be. Just let them be who they are.

To some extent, having hit-first soldiers like Goodrow, Blais, and Reaves in your line-up will have a drag-you-into-the-fight effect, but I don't think it's going to dramatically impact any of these players or turn them into noticeably more physical players. To that end, the Reaves-Kravtsov coaching was, at least to me, more about teaching him how to protect himself and less about activating some under-the-surface aggression just waiting to be tapped into.

[torontonyr]

For some reason I really want us to sign Brandon Dubinsky...he'd fit right in.

[Phil]

1 minute ago, torontonyr said:

For some reason I really want us to sign Brandon Dubinsky...he'd fit right in.

He's LTIRetired. Wrist is fucked.

[LindG1000]

4 minutes ago, Phil said:

Eh, see, this is where I diverge. I don't see it dramatically affecting any of them because none of them are instinctively physical. Same issue as McDonagh, Kreider, etc. from years past. The second the term "mean streak" enters the conversation, that player, to me, stops qualifying because the operative word in the phrase is streak, not mean. You are either mean, or you aren't. And by an dlarge, you simply can't teach people to be mean. Not this late in the game, at least. Kakko, Kravtsov, and Lafrenire are not mean and I wouldn't waste any energy hoping they'll suddenly wake up tomorrow with the sudden urge to be. Just let them be who they are.

To some extent, having hit-first soldiers like Goodrow, Blais, and Reaves in your line-up will have a drag-you-into-the-fight effect, but I don't think it's going to dramatically impact any of these players or turn them into noticeably more physical players. To that end, the Reaves-Kravtsov coaching was, at least to me, more about teaching him how to protect himself and less about activating some under-the-surface aggression just waiting to be tapped into.

Sure - but that "how to protect yourself" bit was very sorely missing from the last few clubs. 

I don't think the presence of Reaves, or Blais, or Goodrow is going to suddenly make everyone walk around like they've got an 11 inch wrench dangling between their legs and can punch like Tyson, but it's going to allow the Ranger skill players to seize games in the second and third period when oppositions feel much more worn down from dealing with the physicality of it all.

[Drew a Penalty]

7 minutes ago, Phil said:

To that end, the Reaves-Kravtsov coaching was, at least to me, more about teaching him how to protect himself and less about activating some under-the-surface aggression just waiting to be tapped into.

It's almost entirely about protection. Reaves was working with Kravtsov on gripping the jersey/shoulder pads where you nullify any ability to swing your arm. You can't really get hurt in a fight if you can't get punched. Smarter fighters will jab with the hand they're holding a jersey with, though. Tom Wilson does it all of the time. So this isn't exactly fool proof protection for Krav, but good enough given his role.

[Phil]

3 minutes ago, G1000 said:

Sure - but that "how to protect yourself" bit was very sorely missing from the last few clubs. 

I don't think the presence of Reaves, or Blais, or Goodrow is going to suddenly make everyone walk around like they've got an 11 inch wrench dangling between their legs and can punch like Tyson, but it's going to allow the Ranger skill players to seize games in the second and third period when oppositions feel much more worn down from dealing with the physicality of it all.

Agreed.

3 minutes ago, Drew a Penalty said:

It's almost entirely about protection. Reaves was working with Kravtsov on gripping the jersey/shoulder pads where you nullify any ability to swing your arm. You can't really get hurt in a fight if you can't get punched. Smarter fighters will jab with the hand they're holding a jersey with, though. Tom Wilson does it all of the time. So this isn't exactly fool proof protection for Krav, but good enough given his role.

Agreed. But it's still a good thing to know and understand, should you ever find yourself tangled up with someone who can really hurt you. I'd rather he at least understand some basic level of protecting himself than be caught in one of these situations completely unguarded (think Carcillo-Gaborik).

[Drew a Penalty]

2 minutes ago, Phil said:

Agreed.

Agreed. But it's still a good thing to know and understand, should you ever find yourself tangled up with someone who can really hurt you. I'd rather he at least understand some basic level of protecting himself than be caught in one of these situations completely unguarded (think Carcillo-Gaborik).

For sure. It's better to take a less concerning jab than a full on swing.

[torontonyr]

14 minutes ago, Phil said:

He's LTIRetired. Wrist is fucked.

Oh I had no idea. Can we Dan Blackburn him and have him play with one hand?

[Tomas Sandstrom]

I like to think of it like a tool in the toolbox.  Can a player play that way, if he has to?  Not saying he's going to always play that way, or  even that it comes naturally.  Some skills are learned, not instinctive.  Sometimes, that's enough.  

This is where players who mastered said skills (In this instance, physicality / playing a cycling type game) are invaluable.  They can teach / lead the way and others can learn and follow.  

It's nice to have "Masters" of different skills and different styles of play on your team, for others, especially younger guys, to lean on and learn from.  Maybe years down the road, those  younger guys will grow to the point of mastery.  This is one of the reasons why coaches are always looking for experienced players, guys who've been through the battles.  It's so important, especially for a young team like this one.

Looking forward to seeing how quickly these younger guys can learn and adapt to this new style, and who can master this new tool for their toolbox.  

[Keirik]

It’s. Even a necessity for a long time on this team. A punishing 4th line that makes the opposition pay attention when they are on the ice. A different look than the top 6 and more punishing than a checking or energy line. 
 

  But the biggest thing is that they also need to be able to play hockey as well. When a punishing line can also contribute from time to time is when you get into Islander 4th line territory. I’m really hoping we get there to that. It just allows the top 6 so much more room if the opposition has to plan around all the different types of looks coming at them rather than just saying to keep everyone at the perimeter and be able to coast through a game plan. 

[siddious]

I’ll be the first to admit I thought they over corrected this off-season. But now that I think about it a bit I think they over corrected for something that’s been a massive hole on this team for a few season now so maybe it was the right move. 
 

tell you what they didn’t look amazing last night but they looked like a proper hockey team for the first time since before the rebuild began. 

[Ozzy]

I'm anxious to see how they look in the last couple of games of the pre-season, when it gets down to who we're going with.  Looks like a good mix of players, and now with some toughness added in, it's looking like a good balance.

[Albatrosss]

im liking everything about the physical play this team showed thus far, accept for Reeves.  He looked slow and without any offensive ability.  

[siddious]

8 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

I'm anxious to see how they look in the last couple of games of the pre-season, when it gets down to who we're going with.  Looks like a good mix of players, and now with some toughness added in, it's looking like a good balance.

Yea, I forgot who said I think it was carp the other day but I’m always so hyped for pre season cuz it’s hockey, but then I’m always so anxious for the season to just start because I wanna see the final team get going. 

[Ozzy]

11 minutes ago, siddious said:

Yea, I forgot who said I think it was carp the other day but I’m always so hyped for pre season cuz it’s hockey, but then I’m always so anxious for the season to just start because I wanna see the final team get going. 

I'm trying to visualize the 2 squads I've seen so far in the two games, and I'm like, "Shit!  This is gonna be fun to watch this year!!!"

By the way, Fuck trading Zac Jones!  That kid's a keeper!  Fox 2.0 might be a legit title for this kid! 

I found a nice article on him today...Kid's got a great attitude:

http://www.foreverblueshirts.com/zac-jones-is-not-going-to-make-sending-him-down-easy-for-the-new-york-rangers/

Edited September 29, 2021 by Ozzy

[Keirik]

48 minutes ago, siddious said:

I’ll be the first to admit I thought they over corrected this off-season. But now that I think about it a bit I think they over corrected for something that’s been a massive hole on this team for a few season now so maybe it was the right move. 
 

tell you what they didn’t look amazing last night but they looked like a proper hockey team for the first time since before the rebuild began. 

They still did overcorrect because thry have guys like Tinordi or to a lesser extent Nemeth still when I don’t see them sniffing ice time much but it’s looking good so far. 

[siddious]

2 minutes ago, Keirik said:

They still did overcorrect because thry have guys like Tinordi or to a lesser extent Nemeth still when I don’t see them sniffing ice time much but it’s looking good so far. 

We have yet to see the final roster but yea my understanding is that these are mostly depth signings. You'd have to want this team to lose not to play the kids on D at this point.

Hell I'd take Schneider over Trouba even but thats probably because I dont like Trouba as a player.

[Ozzy]

It's not a terrible thing to have some serviceable reserves though....I mean, the 2 words "depth" and "Rangers" rarely if ever collide in the same sentence!!  LOL

[ThirtyONE]

I don't want Schneider or Jones starting the season here no matter how good they look in camp. 

This team is trying to make the playoffs. They don't really have time to break players in. Lundkvist as least played pro hockey and knows how to be a pro. Once those two prove it over a period of time in Hartford they're more than welcome to replace whoever. But the breaking in of multiple rookies every season is over. That's why Hartford exists. It's fine to let them marinate down there a bit. 

[Drew a Penalty]

46 minutes ago, ThirtyONE said:

I don't want Schneider or Jones starting the season here no matter how good they look in camp. 

This team is trying to make the playoffs. They don't really have time to break players in. Lundkvist as least played pro hockey and knows how to be a pro. Once those two prove it over a period of time in Hartford they're more than welcome to replace whoever. But the breaking in of multiple rookies every season is over. That's why Hartford exists. It's fine to let them marinate down there a bit. 

I completely disagree.

Based on what we've seen from Lundkvist so far, his pro games don't matter because they weren't in North America. He's still getting a feel for the North American game and we don't know how long it'll take him to adjust. Jones looks more confident and capable out there at the moment. Lundkvist struggled with puck battles and was inconsistent in moving the puck for most of his preseason game. Jones seemed to have the puck on a string even in contact, was able to roll off checks, and actually used his small size to his advantage in weaving through traffic.

If that persists through camp, Jones should get the spot and not Lundkvist. Jones has 10 NHL games under his belt, it's not as though playing in the NHL is a foreign concept to him. He has more exposure to the NHL than Lundkvist