Long live the King Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 I?m not talking about sitting though. I?m talking about a) different rules for different guys b) the deployment of certain players and c) a perceived weighting of grit over skill Fair enough though. It?s just my feeling. I don?t expect everyone to agree with me.a) says who? The rule is effort. We don't see practice. Seems pretty consistent. Howden not scoring isn't an effort issue. b) Tony D had maturity issues. That's what kept his deployment from being the same as Pionk. c) Buch, Names, Strome all playing well. The first two have sat and have responded. Zib at a point per game. Vesey with career highs across the board. Sent from my [device_name] using http://Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gravesy Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 a) says who? The rule is effort. We don't see practice. Seems pretty consistent. Howden not scoring isn't an effort issue. b) Tony D had maturity issues. That's what kept his deployment from being the same as Pionk. c) Buch, Names, Strome all playing well. The first two have sat and have responded. Zib at a point per game. Vesey with career highs across the board. Sent from my [device_name] using http://Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk a) Right. The rule is “effort”. So Howden plays every night even though he’s absolutely drowning, producing nothing and utterly brutal metrics. But it’s cool because the “effort” is fucking top notch. Great stuff. Grit over skill. b) when I said deployment of players I meant using Chytil or Buch on the 4th line even though the numbers clearly state how stupid that is, playing Pionk with Staal even though their metrics as a pairing are abysmal etc. c) Not entirely sure what you mean. Buch is the only one I would call a skill player out of those. Last time I checked he was on a worse ppg clip than last season. But again, we can disagree here. I think he’s doing a lot things well. I just think a more balanced approach could be useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThirtyONE Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 I’m not talking about sitting though. I’m talking about a) different rules for different guys b) the deployment of certain players and c) a perceived weighting of grit over skill Fair enough though. It’s just my feeling. I don’t expect everyone to agree with me. I’m not sure how you can know any of those things as truths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 I like a lot of what Quinn has done, but this "Accountability" is a bunch of BS. - sits Buch for facial expressions during practice. Fast doesn't even practice, anymore - sits DeAngelo for taunting an opponent during a game, while DeAngelo was the best dman for a stretch of games - Howden and Pionk got long leashes, while Chytil and Buchnevich were quickly demoted to the 4th line, or sat - Skjei was sat a game for scolding a teammate after a bad play causing a goal against. Zibanejad was praised for throwing a mini-temper tantrum because Chytil picked the wrong assignment. Lundqvist, as well. - Buch was sat for lack of production (.5 ppg), yet we get a shit load of Namestinikov and Fast - How often does Jesper Fast take a dumb, lazy penalty? It's so random and inconsistent. And playing dmen on the 4th line is a horrible way to try to get people motivated to gain ice time, especially when its Brendan Smith So much wrong here it numbs the mind. First all of your reasons for why players sat are coming from where, rumor, blogs, where. Quinn has occasionally said in a presser why but never for the reasons you’ve stated here. Fast has been every coaches wet dream and is considered the role model for work ethic. Not by his coaches but by him winning the players award pretty much every single season he’s been here. Skeij, buchnevich, and ada are all showing improvement from Quinn’s apparent selective accountability. Why anyone would choose to complain about his methods towards these three players is beyond me. It’s working, they are finally showing more as is Vesey too. Strome is a better player today then when he got here. Namestnikov has completely transformed from a passive perimeter player to a guy while not as productive as hoped, to a guy who’s in the middle of everything. He’s actually a pretty tough player. Namestnikov saw his ice time disappearing nless he changed and to his credit and Quinn’s he’s played ever since. Pionk I don’t understand nor will try to explain. I will say the defense other than Staal has been a revolving door of scratch’s all year. The biggest take from all this for me is that benchings have zero to do with talent. It’s about work ethic. That’s it. If Quinn can get guys who have real talent to match that talent with intensity than god bless. Last thing about Howden. He made the team based on his intensity and work ethic. It’s basically his talent strength. Makes sense that a new coach who is preaching those traits uses that player as a symbol. Besides am I missing another deserving player? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 My only question mark was the treatment of Howden. Showing up and giving a good effort is one thing, but being good enough and producing in the NHL is another. Howden had the first part down pretty well, but he needs to work on his skills. He shouldn't have been up with the Rangers as long as he was, with no production. It wasn't just him being with the team either. It was the amount of ice time that was continuously pumped his way despite zero production. I still think he'll be a good player. I saw enough of it in spurts at the beginning of the year, but it's not refined and not consistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gravesy Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 I’m not sure how you can know any of those things as truths. They aren’t truths and I haven’t presented them as such. They’re opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 My only question mark was the treatment of Howden. Showing up and giving a good effort is one thing, but being good enough and producing in the NHL is another. Howden had the first part down pretty well, but he needs to work on his skills. He shouldn't have been up with the Rangers as long as he was, with no production. It wasn't just him being with the team either. It was the amount of ice time that was continuously pumped his way despite zero production. I still think he'll be a good player. I saw enough of it in spurts at the beginning of the year, but it's not refined and not consistent. Maybe Quinn waited too long to reduce Howden's minutes, but he averaged less than 8 in his last 5 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Maybe Quinn waited too long to reduce Howden's minutes, but he averaged less than 8 in his last 5 games. It took 2 points over 23 games to finally reduce his time. That's more than 25% of the season before realizing that he needed a reduction. Waited too long is an understatement, but I can acknowledge he finally began to do the right thing. Just not sure what his obsession was with Howden in particular. Other than the breakfast club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 My only question mark was the treatment of Howden. Showing up and giving a good effort is one thing, but being good enough and producing in the NHL is another. Howden had the first part down pretty well, but he needs to work on his skills. He shouldn't have been up with the Rangers as long as he was, with no production. It wasn't just him being with the team either. It was the amount of ice time that was continuously pumped his way despite zero production. I still think he'll be a good player. I saw enough of it in spurts at the beginning of the year, but it's not refined and not consistent. Howden was very productive in his first 20 games or so. He hit a wall which isn’t rare for a player his age. Should Quinn have stuck with so long is the question. Then again people would complain about playing the kids if he sat. So as you can see when dealing with the fans He can’t win. Would Peter Holland have been a more productive player, maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYR2711 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 If he plays with Zib and Kreider, he probably will be. Which I don't get why they aren't playing him with them. They had some good chemistry together before he got hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long live the King Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Which I don't get why they aren't playing him with them. They had some good chemistry together before he got hurt. Just a guess, but Vesey has 6 points in three games playing on that line. Maybe that's why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 So much wrong here it numbs the mind. First all of your reasons for why players sat are coming from where, rumor, blogs, where. Quinn has occasionally said in a presser why but never for the reasons you?ve stated here. Fast has been every coaches wet dream and is considered the role model for work ethic. Not by his coaches but by him winning the players award pretty much every single season he?s been here. Skeij, buchnevich, and ada are all showing improvement from Quinn?s apparent selective accountability. Why anyone would choose to complain about his methods towards these three players is beyond me. It?s working, they are finally showing more as is Vesey too. Strome is a better player today then when he got here. Namestnikov has completely transformed from a passive perimeter player to a guy while not as productive as hoped, to a guy who?s in the middle of everything. He?s actually a pretty tough player. Namestnikov saw his ice time disappearing nless he changed and to his credit and Quinn?s he?s played ever since. Pionk I don?t understand nor will try to explain. I will say the defense other than Staal has been a revolving door of scratch?s all year. The biggest take from all this for me is that benchings have zero to do with talent. It?s about work ethic. That?s it. If Quinn can get guys who have real talent to match that talent with intensity than god bless. Last thing about Howden. He made the team based on his intensity and work ethic. It?s basically his talent strength. Makes sense that a new coach who is preaching those traits uses that player as a symbol. Besides am I missing another deserving player? If you can't see that Fast has been pretty bad, and taken lazy penalties, and faces NO accountability, than I don't know what to tell you. And trying to force everyplayer to become skil-lless Jesper Fast is not moving any team or player in the right direction. Most of what I mentioned came from Quinn, MSG broadcast or Brooks. I dont read Rangers blogs. The rest, seems like you prefer fourth liners over skill and talent, and that's fine. But talent is winning across the league, right now. If you are going to have a coach prevent talented guys from becoming effective offensive players that the team desperately needs, just move the players for more middle 6 forwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Howden was very productive in his first 20 games or so. He hit a wall which isn’t rare for a player his age. Should Quinn have stuck with so long is the question. Then again people would complain about playing the kids if he sat. So as you can see when dealing with the fans He can’t win. Would Peter Holland have been a more productive player, maybe? He did it with everyone else. You just said I was wrong when I pointed this out... lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long live the King Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 a) Right. The rule is “effort”. So Howden plays every night even though he’s absolutely drowning, producing nothing and utterly brutal metrics. But it’s cool because the “effort” is fucking top notch. Great stuff. Grit over skill. b) when I said deployment of players I meant using Chytil or Buch on the 4th line even though the numbers clearly state how stupid that is, playing Pionk with Staal even though their metrics as a pairing are abysmal etc. c) Not entirely sure what you mean. Buch is the only one I would call a skill player out of those. Last time I checked he was on a worse ppg clip than last season. But again, we can disagree here. I think he’s doing a lot things well. I just think a more balanced approach could be useful. Effort and grit are not the same thing. Lemieux plays with grit. Fast plays with effort. If Chytil is coasting around, not forechecking, lazy on the backcheck, not focusing in practice, why should he stay in the top 9? And you're calling Names and Strome grit players vs skill player? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gravesy Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Effort and grit are not the same thing. Lemieux plays with grit. Fast plays with effort. If Chytil is coasting around, not forechecking, lazy on the backcheck, not focusing in practice, why should he stay in the top 9? And you're calling Names and Strome grit players vs skill player? I have never said guys should play if they’re coasting. And no, I don’t think of those two as skill players primarily. They’re not muckers or grinders, but I wouldn’t place them in the same bracket as Zib, Chytil or Buch either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Generally speaking this team is playing far better than anyone could have hoped with the talent they have. Players are developing better than they have in years. So what is the general problem with Quinn? Ironic that we have this discussion after game 1 post deadline against the best team in the league in which the rangers outplay them for 40 minutes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYR2711 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Just a guess, but Vesey has 6 points in three games playing on that line. Maybe that's why. I would have put Buch there though before Vesey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 I'm fine with guys sitting for whatever reason, but I'll call out the inconsistency of accountability when it exists. As for Chytil, the last Rangers draft pick to put up more than 60 points as a Ranger was Tony Amonte in 1993. With the influx of talent that was recently drafted by the Rangers, if they are forcing Chytil and eventually Kravtsov to become Jesper Fast, that 93 mark is going to stay standing. A coach on a re-building squad needs to be able to maximize the best skills of his players, especially the younger ones. Quinn has been unsuccessful, thus far with dealing with skilled players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 I'm fine with guys sitting for whatever reason, but I'll call out the inconsistency of accountability when it exists. As for Chytil, the last Rangers draft pick to put up more than 60 points as a Ranger was Tony Amonte in 1993. With the influx of talent that was recently drafted by the Rangers, if they are forcing Chytil and eventually Kravtsov to become Jesper Fast, that 93 mark is going to stay standing. A coach on a re-building squad needs to be able to maximize the best skills of his players, especially the younger ones. Quinn has been unsuccessful, thus far with dealing with skilled players. How can you possibly say or prove that. The guy has coached 60 games. Ada is a skilled player and he’s improving. Asking for a player to put in the work is not trying to turn everybody into grinders. You are making that up, plain and simple. Skilled players? Besides chytil who is 19 who are you referring to? You state facts about this and that that have zero to do with your general point Your point Quinn has failed at developing young skill. Chytil is your example. He’s 19 and far from finished developing. Years away actually. So who else? Facts about 1991 rangers doesn’t prove anything. How about facts revolving around your point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 ADA is playing better because he’s getting ice time because there were injuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LindG1000 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 I'm fine with guys sitting for whatever reason, but I'll call out the inconsistency of accountability when it exists. As for Chytil, the last Rangers draft pick to put up more than 60 points as a Ranger was Tony Amonte in 1993. With the influx of talent that was recently drafted by the Rangers, if they are forcing Chytil and eventually Kravtsov to become Jesper Fast, that 93 mark is going to stay standing. A coach on a re-building squad needs to be able to maximize the best skills of his players, especially the younger ones. Quinn has been unsuccessful, thus far with dealing with skilled players. Not to be a pedant, because your point about our drafting is valid, but the last Ranger draftee to put up more than 60 points for the Rangers is Sergei Zubov. Kreider can break that streak this year, but he'll just finish w/59 just because. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 As for talented guys, Chytil and Buchnevich. Based on how he’s dealt with them, doesn’t give me a lot of confidence he’ll be able to change that with Kravtsov plus another top 10 pick. If we want the franchise to change directions, it’s going to happen here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Not to be a pedant, because your point about our drafting is valid, but the last Ranger draftee to put up more than 60 points for the Rangers is Sergei Zubov. Kreider can break that streak this year, but he'll just finish w/59 just because. Forward *, sorry. Leetch in 01 , Zubov 94 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LindG1000 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 As for talented guys, Chytil and Buchnevich. Based on how he’s dealt with them, doesn’t give me a lot of confidence he’ll be able to change that with Kravtsov plus another top 10 pick. If we want the franchise to change directions, it’s going to happen here. Chytil, Andersson, and frankly, Buch, all need to hit the gym. Specifically the first two - they're still kids. I think next year is a test of Quinn more than a test of the rebuild. I think - on paper, anyway - the rebuild is right on track. We've got some potential cornerstones, though we lack the gamebreaker (unless Kravtsov really is that guy). Big test is this offseason. There's a world where Kravtsov comes over, Fox bails on CAR and signs with us (because, let's face it, college FAs love us), Panarin puts pen to paper, Rykov, Reunanen, and Shestyorkin come over...etc. Maybe Miller jumps the NCAA? There's a world where Kakko or Hughes is in that mix too. Not too farfetched, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albatrosss Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 not sure what Amonte, leetch, and zubov have anything to do with Quinn or our current pool of youngsters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.