Phil Posted December 10, 2018 Author Share Posted December 10, 2018 Carolina is the best team by Corsi, Las Vegas 2nd, SJ 3rd, Calgary 4th, Montreal 5th lol. There's no rhyme or reason to it. You may as well cite what they had for breakfast and rank them on that. That's why it's used in conjunction with other data, like a bottom-third GF/GP rate, a negative goal differential, and a near-worst ROW. Why are you focusing on just one of them, as though that suddenly validates the team? They're a hard-working group of forwards being propped up by superior goaltending and getting dragged down by a near AHL-level defense group. There's a lot of work left to do before contention is in sight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giacomin Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Makar - still in college for a reason Glass - I would hope he's pumping 16 yos at this point Tippet - Why is he in junior Suzuki - Killing it according to who? He's repeating the same level and his production hasn't budged Yamamoto - See: Corey Conacher Tolavanen - What? I would agree that there's a whack of promising mid level D men in the middle of that round, that's about it. You are talking about 19 year olds. Try and pry Makar from Colorado. You are being silly here. Glass has 52 points in 24? What more do you want? Tippett got a few games at Florida, they are very high on him. Mark Seidel was raving about Suzuki Friday. Tolvanen had 25 goals with Jokerit at 18. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giacomin Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 And then Anderson. In a redraft, I'd still have him in the 1st round, around 25-28. Not good, but maybe he's a slow developer, even though he was touted as the opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunny Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 He's in the NHL and all the guys you're raving about are playing against people without pubic hair. He's not a slow developer. Suzuki is a slow developer, Tippet is a slow developer. The problem with Andersson is ceiling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 8. Mittlestadt - great last year, lots of potential Middlestadt played 6 games in the NHL last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 That's why it's used in conjunction with other data, like a bottom-third GF/GP rate, a negative goal differential, and a near-worst ROW. Why are you focusing on just one of them, as though that suddenly validates the team? They're a hard-working group of forwards being propped up by superior goaltending and getting dragged down by a near AHL-level defense group. There's a lot of work left to do before contention is in sight. Their record validates or refutes their advanced stats. Unfortunately for the stat people this is not a video game and certain aspects can’t be measured by numbers. That is a fact. The rangers may not grade out well and the canes maybe the best team according to advanced stats. The record is what it is. To argue differently is ridiculous. Your argument is that they shouldn’t have this record because these stats say this. Yet your admitting that your stats don’t always hold true. So just wait until they do and then I told you so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBrowningPI Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 The standings are really showing the salary cap era in all it's parity. Vegas was not a good team last year. They found the sweet spot in coaching, chemistry and a goalie who stood on his head all year. The Rangers shouldn't be a good team since the sell off. Quinn is squeezing every ounce out of the hand that was dealt to him. When the ENTIRE team is playing at their best we see games like Dallas and the last Islander game. IMO those were their top defensive games. If Quinn can continue to get their best efforts ( which is insanely difficult ) anything can happen. Can they win it all? I'd give them 10%, being generous. Sent from my SM-N900T using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giacomin Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Middlestadt played 6 games in the NHL last year. I was referring to Mittelstadt's season at U of Minn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giacomin Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 He's in the NHL and all the guys you're raving about are playing against people without pubic hair. He's not a slow developer. Suzuki is a slow developer, Tippet is a slow developer. The problem with Andersson is ceiling. Was sorta kidding, but ceiling is certainly a problem if he is on the slow side and does not possess dynamic skills. How do you call any of these 19 y/o's slow developers? Are you a parent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBrowningPI Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 My Mommy says I'm special. Sent from my SM-N900T using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gravesy Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 He's in the NHL and all the guys you're raving about are playing against people without pubic hair. He's not a slow developer. Suzuki is a slow developer, Tippet is a slow developer. The problem with Andersson is ceiling. This. I mean, "scoring demon" Tolvanen has 4 goals in 21 games in the AHL. He has fewer points over that span than Andersson had with the Pack in his short stint there. Mittelstadt isn't impressing anyone so far, playing on a hot Sabres team. Imagine what he'd look like centering Fogarty and Gettinger. Hint: Probably not very good. These guys are all young so it's a bit early to judge their draft class, but apart from the top picks (who are good but not great) it's not looking anything special so far. Andersson is coming along just fine. I don't really understand the need to come after him after every single game. He's a 20 year old kid playing on not only a very weak line, but without any stability in terms of linemates. To me he looks like what it says on the tin: a solid 2-way C who can play across the lineup, kill penalties and play with a bit of bite. He's never going to be an offensive dynamo. You could obviously argue against the idea of picking a player like that with a #7 pick, but at some point we have to assess him based on what he is and not his draft position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 He's in the NHL and all the guys you're raving about are playing against people without pubic hair. He's not a slow developer. Suzuki is a slow developer, Tippet is a slow developer. The problem with Andersson is ceiling.He shouldn't be in the NHL right now. Their record validates or refutes their advanced stats. Unfortunately for the stat people this is not a video game and certain aspects can?t be measured by numbers. That is a fact. The rangers may not grade out well and the canes maybe the best team according to advanced stats. The record is what it is. To argue differently is ridiculous. Your argument is that they shouldn?t have this record because these stats say this. Yet your admitting that your stats don?t always hold true. So just wait until they do and then I told you so?Sometimes you have to take the numbers and what you see and draw your own conclusions from it. They are where they are because of the shootout. In the playoffs there's no shootout. What do you think would happen to a team in the playoffs in OT that have shown they can't hold a lead? My guess is they'd lose more often than not. This. I mean, "scoring demon" Tolvanen has 4 goals in 21 games in the AHL. He has fewer points over that span than Andersson had with the Pack in his short stint there. Mittelstadt isn't impressing anyone so far, playing on a hot Sabres team. Imagine what he'd look like centering Fogarty and Gettinger. Hint: Probably not very good. These guys are all young so it's a bit early to judge their draft class, but apart from the top picks (who are good but not great) it's not looking anything special so far. Andersson is coming along just fine. I don't really understand the need to come after him after every single game. He's a 20 year old kid playing on not only a very weak line, but without any stability in terms of linemates. To me he looks like what it says on the tin: a solid 2-way C who can play across the lineup, kill penalties and play with a bit of bite. He's never going to be an offensive dynamo. You could obviously argue against the idea of picking a player like that with a #7 pick, but at some point we have to assess him based on what he is and not his draft position.I agree with Dunny, this is just an subpar draft. That said, you can't blame Anderson's linemates for his poor fundamentals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giacomin Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 This. I mean, "scoring demon" Tolvanen has 4 goals in 21 games in the AHL. He has fewer points over that span than Andersson had with the Pack in his short stint there. Mittelstadt isn't impressing anyone so far, playing on a hot Sabres team. Imagine what he'd look like centering Fogarty and Gettinger. Hint: Probably not very good. These guys are all young so it's a bit early to judge their draft class, but apart from the top picks (who are good but not great) it's not looking anything special so far. Andersson is coming along just fine. I don't really understand the need to come after him after every single game. He's a 20 year old kid playing on not only a very weak line, but without any stability in terms of linemates. To me he looks like what it says on the tin: a solid 2-way C who can play across the lineup, kill penalties and play with a bit of bite. He's never going to be an offensive dynamo. You could obviously argue against the idea of picking a player like that with a #7 pick, but at some point we have to assess him based on what he is and not his draft position. OK, sorry I called him a scoring demon, lol. Let's say he's a shooting winger, who scored a lot of goals in Jr and Finland. Drafted #30, he was expected to take 3 or so years to be ready. Phil and I debated him during the draft, I was skeptical of his overall game. He performed so well that fans were calling for him to be on the playoff roster, while I admitted that Phil was right about him. He got a chance to stick, but wasn't ready for the playoffs. This year he has not started strong, but that doesn't mean he won't eventually be successful. As for Andersson, I haven't taken many shots at him. It is way too early in his career and he hasn't had the opportunities/minutes/linemates to draw any conclusions. Let's talk, this time next year. What I will do is assess the kids like a scout might (as unfinished products) and be even-handed not a homer. Otherwise, why take my raves about Howden and Chytil seriously? Those two have flashed serious skills that are translating to the NHL. Howden is demonstrating consistent play, high hockey IQ, ability as a playmaker and already is a shutdown defender. Who, his age, is that good on D? Besides Matthews. Chytil is a dynamic offensive player who already had a 5 game goal streak the minute he was put on a decent line. He is also capable of playing multiple positions and is showing the willingness to learn D. Both have plenty of room for growth in every aspect. So does Lias. Yet, Lias has not displayed many/any strong offensive skill sets. His skating is also a concern, not terrible but... He has not flashed enough to start projecting him as more than a real good 4C, or possibly an average 3C. However, he could make leaps in the next 2 years. If he becomes a better skater and always moves his legs/feet, he does not have many weak aspects to his game. He could excel as a defensive C, who becomes a smart gritty playmaker on O. We just haven't seen it yet, so how do we point to it? Granted he has had a decent game or two, since getting some minutes away from the 4th line. But it is time to see a little more, as the season progresses, if anyone is going to be excited about him. Or pencil him in as our 3C of the future, when we are competing. This is also why it is not out of the realm that the Rangers resign Hayes. It is really Z, Chytil and Howden that make him expendable. Yet, two of those guys are also rookies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giacomin Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Sidenote: Yes, comparing him to Chytil and Howden may always paint him as a lesser player because he is behind them. However, he is far far ahead of Boo, Vinnie, Fogie, Getty and anyone else in Hartford. Unlike those guys, Lias looks like an NHLer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted December 10, 2018 Author Share Posted December 10, 2018 Their record validates or refutes their advanced stats. Unfortunately for the stat people this is not a video game and certain aspects can’t be measured by numbers. That is a fact. The rangers may not grade out well and the canes maybe the best team according to advanced stats. The record is what it is. To argue differently is ridiculous. Your argument is that they shouldn’t have this record because these stats say this. Yet your admitting that your stats don’t always hold true. So just wait until they do and then I told you so? The Rangers grade out poorly and the Canes grade out well in litearlly one category. One. I shared one, single statistic that is barely advanced. It's so not advanced, in fact, you can count it at home while #WatchingTheGame. The record is what it is — which is a house of cards propped up by shootout wins and elite goaltending. This is borne out by the negative goal differential, the bottom-of-the-barrel shot share metrics, their near-basement ROW, and utterly average GF/GP, among others. But let's try it this way. You think this is a good team? Prove it. Show me the math — any math — that supports this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 The Rangers grade out poorly and the Canes grade out well in litearlly one category. One. I shared one, single statistic that is barely advanced. It's so not advanced, in fact, you can count it at home while #WatchingTheGame. The record is what it is — which is a house of cards propped up by shootout wins and elite goaltending. This is borne out by the negative goal differential, the bottom-of-the-barrel shot share metrics, their near-basement ROW, and utterly average GF/GP, among others. But let's try it this way. You think this is a good team? Prove it. Show me the math — any math — that supports this. I don’t think they are good. I don’t advanced stats to tell me that. We tend to focus only on the rangers. The question is how many teams really are good? In today’s nhl there is a handful actual cup contenders, everybody else has their problems too. So I don’t think the rangers are good at all yet they stay relevant because on a nightly basis they can accumulate points against equally flawed teams. The goaltending they are getting may very well be the difference in them posting a better record then advanced stats suggest. Almost 30 games in that’s exactly what’s happened. Other teams get points through shootouts too. My entire point is not to argue how good they are. Listing stats to illustrate they suck means nothing when their record proves that those stats don’t always tell the entire picture. Their record proves that even those who want who want to simplify or confuse (depends on the beholder)expected outcomes by advanced stats have proven nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 I dont fancy stat much, sometimes ask for a chart to see if I'm missing something. Watching Carolina, sometimes that team is every where, fast, and getting a ton of shots. But they also cant score and their goaltending has been shit. I'd think they'd have a better chance at improving their overall success more than a team relying on a goaltender to stand on his head and shoot outs. but I also didnt look back to see what you guys are discussing.lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.