Rizz GAWD Lav No Cap FrFr

Coaching certainly helps. But disagree on the larger point; Lundqvist overall in the playoffs was often outplayed by the guy at the other end; Craig Anderson, Ben Bishop, Jonathan Quick, Brodeur. if you're gonna say he was so great, than when it really mattered in the playoffs he should have been the superior guy. In the postseason he was often second best. Still comes down to stopping the puck. Think you are unduly complicating things; don't think it's as radically different. But agree to disagree.

I think you’re all over the place lmao.

Maybe it is an age of poster thing? The argument seems to be that Hank was the face of the franchise for over a decade and had an incredible 4 year run in the playoffs where unfortunately the Rangers did not win a Cup. Sorry but that does not come close to what Leetch accomplished and that includes official league accolades.

 

If you are going to talk about a GOAT you need to be able to compare generations relative to the people they played against and what they accomplished.

Leetch won a cup early in his career on the backs of an old Edmonton dynasty and then never got close to that level again, playing on some of the worst rangers teams in modern history. So tell me why that makes him better than a guy who literally willed a franchise for 10 years?

Talking 1950s or 1960s, might agree with you. The game has changed. The players are way better conditioned, better equipped and much faster. You rarely see player take long shift. Even without the trap it's a much more defensively oriented game.

 

But being a goalie between now and the 1980s isn't all that different, except running the goalie was a nightly occurrence then. And you had Cam Neely or Brendan Shanahan or some other huge guy with hands camped in front of you. Think while it's not perfect Smith, Dyrden, Curtis Joseph, Ed Belfour, Roy, Vanbiesbrouck, Ron Hextall, Fuhr, among other from that era, compare favorably. Smith, because he was a short bald angry drunk might not fit the mold, but think the comparison is fair.

Okay, so I'm sorry to say that you just couldn't be more wrong here.

1. Goaltending coaches did not exist

2. the current style of hybrid butterfly goaltending did not exist

3. rebound control as a key factor in negating plays and turning the puck back up ice did not exist

4. players were shooting the puck with a wooden stick, and while slap shots were similar on the high end mph wise, wrist shots just did not exist in the same way. The easy to create a snapshot now is just unparalleled.

5. goaltender screens did not exist in the same way they do now

6. the game now is played at such an incredible pace it is almost night and day

The long and short: if you plopped a goaltender from the 80's who was not Roy, they probably aren't NHL'ers. Goaltenders from the 90's are more comparable, however again, the same thing that was true of the 80's is also true for much of the 90's in the list above. The game is so radically different, it's not remotely comparable. Ask Richter if he would've liked to have someone like Benoit Allaire helping him. I can tell you with absolute 100% certainty, he would.

Not sure how what you just provided proves that their politically motivated skew has nothing to do with their reduced viewership. Regardless, real people, that I know, have stopped watching because of the two very things I mentioned. Obviously a very small pool of people (in the global spectrum), but to discredit something out of hand as just being social media driven is also wrong.

No it's not, because there are numbers that give us all the info we need. You have friends who don't like the politics, great. The diversity initiative at ESPN began in 2017, which is where the modern "politicizing" narrative comes from.

Espn has been dropping year over year because people stream more and have a different way of viewing their news cycle/engaging in sports discussions.

Here are some great references:

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20181126/09313541105/espn-has-lost-14-million-viewers-7-years-thanks-to-cord-cutting.shtml

https://www.statista.com/statistics/648072/espn-primetime-viewership-usa/

ESPN has been in a serious decline since about 2010-11. This isn't new, and while you may have friends who stopped watching, I'm sure there are others who appreciate the content that you and your group dislike, so the loss is provably moot.

Good. They've earned that thanks to hyper-focus on basketball and being at the forefront of politicizing sports.

Basketball is their biggest draw from a live sports standpoint, their issues with ratings in general is that the news cycle for sports has moved to Twitter, as has the hot take wars. It's more instant than network television can ever be.

That being said, the 6pm Sports Center telecasts have been gaining viewership, not losing, since COVID.

As for this notion that there is a political reason, ESPN has been in decline since social media really took off. Their numbers have been consistently moving down year over year for non-live sports. It has nothing to do with politic, and if you believe that, that's great. But it's also wrong. :)

Grant you it's not entirely fair. A goalie isn't responsible if the team in front of him cannot score or doesn't play defense effectively.Or if a coach doesn't get Marian Gaborik's game, or Rick Nash or Brad Richards go dead.

 

One more HoF goalie's record is interesting in this regard: Billy Smith, postseason record of 81-36. Gretzky said he was the best goalie he ever faced. Smith is not viewed as a technician, and had a nasty streak which simply would not be tolerated (nor needed) today. Despite being part of a team the '79 NYR upset to get into the Finals, after that Smith had a very big hand in blocking some decent early 1980s NYR clubs in the playoffs on his way to 4 straight Cups. In the playoffs, he had a knack for giving up 1 less goal that the other guy.That's not something to be dismissed. And sadly based on Lundqvist's postseason record, it wasn't #30's forte.

 

https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/s/smithbi01.html

You're comparing a goalie from the 70's and 80's to a player today and like... come on. I don't think I need to get into how absurd that is.

Leetch

Way to backup your post with a well thought out and concise argument. ;)

Pardon this fart in this church; Lundqvist's career W/L in playoffs is 61-67. Grant you felt often like they asked him to hold a 1 goal lead every night but that is a big sample.

He had a positive W/L between 2011 and 2015, when he posted the unreal post season numbers I'm referring to.

Also, valuing goaltenders on W/L is just something I'm not particularly a fan of.

Comparing Richter is probably not fair because, for most of his career, he never had a dedicated goalie coach. Him and Glenn Healy were bouncing ideas off each other the year they won the cup. After that season, Sam St. Laurent was brought up from the IHL, but his role was not day to day or hands on the same way Allaire's is now.

I think for most 90's goalies who weren't Hasek or Roy, it was tough to string a consistent career because of how much the game changed around them. Even Brodeur had Jacques Caron, who he credits heavily for making him into the goalie he was and keeping him in the right mindset.

Now, that being said, there is literally no argument you can make to me that Hank isn't the greatest Ranger of all time. He has made this franchise relevant for almost every single year of his career, and his playoff numbers from 11-15 sound made up they're so good. It's always going to be one of my biggest sports disappointment as a fan, not getting to see him hoist the cup with the Rangers.

Congratulations to you and Richard. I hope he makes you happy.

You leave dick out of this.

https://www.williampitt.com/search/real-estate-sales/503-studio-road-stamford-ct-06904-170328341-16101698/

 

This place makes my Richard hard. [emoji533][emoji533][emoji533]

Relenquish your job as a prophet.

 

***************************************************************************************

 

The YAYSAYERS are in their glory after this unbelievable victory against what many consider an " elite " team... On the other hand, the bandwagoners and the NAYSAYERS are crying in their collective beers and vodkas because their NYR played a spirited and exciting game. In spite of giving up a late goal on a power play because of a needless penalty, the boys rallied in a short OT to nail the coffin shut in Toronto. Who woulda thunk?? Oh, the positive thinking YAYSAYERS, that's who. Now for the real test in the up coming games. Oh yeah, let us not forget those that want Kreider, Strome, Georgieve and the like dumped for supposed assets. They always show their true allegiance to the Blueshirts. Ta-Ta boys & girls... This game deserves a real H.F!

I take a 50 point Hayes over no second line center which is what we have right now.

 

We've got a middle six winger playing in that spot.

In a vacuum that?s fine, but not at what he?s currently getting paid.

He was on Pace for a 70-point season when he got traded. On a bad team. That's really hard to do.

 

We're also, at this point, struggling to replace him. So I'm not sure how you can say he's as replaceable as It gets.

We are struggling to replace a 70 point Hayes. But that?s not really Hayes. He?s a 50+ point guy who this year is on pace for 48. If something about his play made me think he was going to be a 70 pt guy consistently, I would agree.

Pretty good beer league that Hayes scored two third period goals in on Monday.

Hayes is fine. But totally not special, like at all. That game was his Stanley cup, and you can tell because I?ve literally never seen him skate like that in his time here. Dude is a decent NHL player but certainly not worth his contract and not someone is ever pine for. He?s about as replaceable as it gets.

U?d want Hayes on your line

In a beer league maybe.

Since the 2009 draft:

 

Chris Kreider - Has done absolutely nothing except underachieve and is on the trade block annually. Amazing how year after year, the Glocesterman has not managed to trade Kreider, if he is so great, a contending team would have jumped at the chance to get him.

Jesper Fast - A not very "Fast" but nice JAG player

JT Miller - Decent player, gone

Brady Skjei - A nice JAG player

Boo Nieves -

Pavel Buchnevich -

Anthony Duclair -

Ryan Graves - Who? Any relation to the real Graves?

Igor Shestyorkin - Good GT prospect

Filip Chytil - Has gotten better and has potential

Morgan Baron - Who?

Vitali Kravtsov -

K' Andre Miller - Who?

Nils Lundkvist - JAG Player

Joey Keane - Who?

Kaapo Kakko - Could be the Ryan Leaf of the NHL. SO FAR, and only so far meaning he could get better, but so far he has been the biggest disappointment I have ever witnessed as a hockey fan considering his billing going into the draft. He's young, big and supposedly talented, so I hope maybe he will get better. If not we are screwed, having a #2 pick in a draft does not happen very often. Kakko rivals Ken Hodge as possibly the biggest disappointment in Ranger history to this point.

Mathew Robertson - Who?

 

Where's Lias? Don't see him here. Conveniently.

 

There are maybe 3-4 players that are decent NHL'ers and the goalie, who we have not seen yet. Nothing more.

 

Fact of the matter is we are a mediocre non playoff team that can not win more than 2 games in a row before going on multi game losing streaks, have a bunch of average to below average young kids with seemingly zero direction, and, in my humble opinion, a very, very questionable future. The only saving grace is JD. I am hoping he takes over the player personnel oversight as he seemed to build 2 really solid teams in STL and CMH.

 

Just one man's "uneducated" opinion.

Uneducated is accurate.

Let?s be factual here for a minute: you?ve watched zero of Lundkvist, Miller or Kravstov. Beyond that, you?ve put zero effort into actually learning anything about these players, yet you speak as if your opinion is valid here, when in reality it?s flat out now.

Do you not get how absurd it is that you?re replying to someone basically saying ?I don?t know anything BUT!?

I don?t know if you?re trolling or what, but you?re clearly very much not someone who should be commenting on the proficiency of this organizations drafting, you?ve put no work into constructing any of your thoughts.

For the record, K?Andre Miller has been talked about by guys like Ryan Kennedy as a star in the making. Nils Lundkvist is on pace to be the best scoring teenage defenseman in SHL history and has extremely high hockey IW combined with great skating and footwork. Kravstov has a bad start, which happens. He tried something that he was contractually allowed to do. He?s since come back to NA and looked like he?s back on track.

I?m not going through every prospect in your list because honestly, it?s not worth it. You haven?t proven to have any credibility that makes this a worthwhile post to spend anymore time on.

I miss Hayes

If this was reddit, I would downvote this reply.

Fantastic role model.

Ok boomer.

Lemieux was a pretty good find! He's our Brad Marchand type...hopefully! LOL

I, too, like marijuana.

Man it would sure be a shame if someone read this without being able to respond, but anyway...

@Fatfrancesa just PM?d me saying how wrong he was about Panarin/that contract. Respect for coming around my brother. [emoji110]

She was so ugly I only showed pictures of her in yoga pants.

Respek.