Rizz GAWD Lav No Cap FrFr

You keep pointing to one example... Eichel had no problem putting up points with 2 horrendous coaches. Same with Hall.

 

I wouldn't expect an instant rebound with Lafrienere. The offense should seem apparent, outside the coach.

 

17 minutes last night, zero shots on goal. Strome had 3 and Kakko 5. That's not coaching.

So, I agree but with a caveat.

It's not coach in terms of scheme. It can be coach in terms of mentality/what's being reinforced (or not). If he's this unsure and afraid of the puck, it can be paralysis due to not wanting to make a mistake, because of what coaching has stressed to him, or alternatively he could be being told he's doing the right things (doubtful) and he's keeping to it, which is why he's consistently so absent. Not to say that I know that to be true, but coaching is as much managing attitudes and egos as it is defenses, line changes and matchups. Managing egos means both keeping the cocky and self-centered players in check/on the right track to benefit your team the most, and the guys who aren't confident yet in the right frame of mind. So far, there seems to be clear evidence that when things are going well, Quinn can keep his young guys focused and on point (Key, Fox, TDA, etc.) but I have yet to see a struggling player grow, or a player who falls off the wagon get back on with him.

Now, I think on ice he's done about all you could do. The minutes are there, the placing in the lineup is right on, but I have no idea what he does behind closed doors to manage players, and I think that's a valid concern.

double standard, we blame him for Kakko and Lafreniere for not developing ,but how about Miller ,he done well under DQ

This isn?t a ?who?s DQ developed vs. not? discussion. Laff and Key do not even have 20 games under dq, he doesn?t get any credit for either of them. This is about what kind of hockey we are playing as a team systematically, and how that benefits or hinders the development of our talent long term.

I mean ADA regressed. No question about that. Not even sure how that would be debated. He's no longer on the team, part of which in my opinion due to Quinn's handling. We can all disagree all day about it being mostly ADAs fault or SOLELY his fault but I think Quinn deserves some blame with him. He was benched 40 minutes into the season and ADA never got over that when I'm pretty sure most of us knew what would happen there lol. Mostly on ADA, but it was a game where everyone looked like dog poo too and ADA took a stupid selfish penalty in a game that was completely over.

 

With that being said, does this mean Trouba is being sat next game too then? He's looked like a shell of himself from Winnipeg since getting here, is out of position a lot, pinches when he shouldn't, gets burned a lot including last night, has the foot speed of a crippled sloth, and took a lazy hooking penalty minutes after the Isles took a 2-0 lead late in the game. By Quinn's accountability, Trouba now should sit.

Idk what Trouba was in Winny. I didn't get to see him enough. He sucks here though. Maybe a new coach helps hide his deficiencies a bit or brings his offense up enough that his contract isn't as bad, bu he suckssss.

ADA regressed? He had a career year last year. This year, in a very limited amount of games, he looked terrible. I wouldn't put that on Quinn. I'd put that more on ADA being overconfident, not preparing himself properly, and overall lack of maturity. But the dude did everything and then some last year under Quinn.

No, he had a career year scoring. As a defenseman, he didn't grow at all. Show me where he was better in his own zone at any point.

I am with ozzy ,give him until the end of the year

if he gets the blame for for Lafreniere and Kakko lack of developing (one is a teenager and the other 20 years old),shouldn't he get credit for fox, chytil and even ADA development

ADA regressed...

Fox came in as is, he succeeds despite the coach. Dude is another level. And that's how he was billed when they signed him.

Chytil? Okay maybe... but that is one guy lol.

I always thought this as well. "Structure is for defending", and a "system" isn't an offensive strategy. I was always under the impression that offense was more for creativity, and talent. That, and also to exploit the weaknesses of the opposition.

 

Whenever I hear about "structure" or "system", I'm thinking the old "1-2-2", "man to man" or the "neutral zone trap" kinda stuff....not for offensive flow. In the offensive zone I don't think it's possible to play a "system". I can see, "don't pinch" or "don't get caught up ice". Usually I'll get the whole "Dump & Chase" or now it's "Chip & Chase", but I think the whole "Quinn doesn't have a system" thing is taken where it doesn't make sense to me.

 

I haven't looked at the stats, but I'll bet the Rangers are somewhere among the teams that have allowed the fewest shots on goal per game. Quinn was talking about how they held their "structure" together for 2 1/2 periods before they fucked the duck, so they must have some kinda system going on in there! ;)

Alright, so I didn't want to get nerdy, but here we go:

Overall, systems and structure are in fact for defense, and offense is about creativity, anticipating the play, and moving the puck quickly to elude defenders and get the goaltender moving. But, you have to get the puck up the ice, and you have to do so in a way that promotes your game and the talent around you. The Rangers, systemically, aren't really aggressive. They give up the blue line pretty much always, and they are left to collapse in on the goalie in a 2-1-2 setup, which is great for mucking up the slot, but teams that can cycle the puck well can eventually exploit them when their lesser defensive pairings and partners are on the ice, as well as young kids who are still adjusting to the NHL. This team does not attack in their own zone, they play not to make a mistake, not force mistakes. It's all about limiting high danger chances, keeping the defensemen low, and supporting the goalie. Jacques Martin has definitely also had an influence, as they are much better at clogging the lanes and suppressing shots, but all of this is at the expense of breakouts, turnovers and ultimately, odd man rushes. This is a giant overcorrection from AV's more complicated system that promoted getting the puck out of the zone quickly and with numbers.

And this is where it's problematic for our young skill players. If you are getting to move back up ice consistently with numbers and with speed, the game is easier. We don't make it easy on our young players.

You know I luv ya like a brutha, my man, but what is it about Quinn that sets everyone off?

 

He says a lot of things that make sense, and I see him on the bench communicating well. He doesn't seem to be shitting on guys (on TV, anyway). I obviously have no clue what goes on behind the locker room door. Also seems like a fairly likeable dude. Some of his BU players really loved him, like Greenway: http://theathletic.com/293193/2018/03/29/jordan-greenway-minnesota-wild-david-quinn-boston-university-shattuck-st-marys/

 

Maybe I'm missing something? ...I dunno.

 

I'm curious, because you have a really good handle on this, and I keep thinking I'm not seeing the forest through the trees with this guy.

Look at how they play. That's all you need to know.

People drove drove Trevor Bauer away from the Mets as a free agent, calling him a piece of shit for a Twitter confrontation in which OTHER PEOPLE "harrassed" a girl.

 

PS, DeAngelo nor Trump said the virus itself was a hoax. But keep that line of bullshit going.

1. That?s just not the dynamic of how the Bauer deal went down (Bauer wanted to control his own destiny, which everyone knew including the Mets when they made that offer, because they were trying to appeal to the fan base despite knowing he wasn?t going to accept that deal).

2. Damn you love politicizing this stuff my guy.

Is it not documented that they had a conversation with him about his social media presence? The only reason to do so is to appease the Twitter mob. Otherwise they wouldn't care. So, yes, they put pressure on DeAngelo to please the Twitter mob. Then they pulled the plug on him publicly by waiving him outright a few games in. Terrible management.

Please give me another example where a professional sports team has done anything to appease a Twitter mob. Like come on, this is logical, you can not be serious.

or maybe it's just possible at this point in their careers it doesn't matter who the coach is the two top two draft picks aren't good good enough or ready to put up points and it's going to take time regardless of who's behind the bench. Some guys seem to have no problem putting up points last season under Quinn.

Again, in a vacuum, sure. But let?s look at this team. Show me the structure, show me the system. Because if you say you can, I?m calling you a liar. There simply isn?t one.

This is not the environment you want to be developing two young, gifted offensive players. I expect guys like Panarin to wherever they go. That?s not unusual. The lack of growth from a guy like Kakko and the awful start by Laff is unusual.

Am I missing something?

 

Bruce Boudreaux is a jackass. He's one of those coaches who succeeds only when his teams are stacked and even then success is only 82 games long. He has no history with rebuilding teams. He has no championship pedigree. In fact every time he's hired, I'm shocked.

 

Also they're not gonna fire David Quinn when the team is actually looking good. They'll fire him when they're ready to make the playoffs/make a run and when that becomes the case, Boudreaux is last on my list.

Huh? He made a name for himself being an extremely good AHL coach and literally every team he touches he turns them into an offensively good squad. He won the Jack Adams Award with a very young capitals team too.

Do I think Bruce is perfect, or for that matter will win us a cup? No I do not. I think he will install a more potent offense and help get the young talent we have to come out of their shell.

And Quinn absolutely has his job on the line. Maybe it?s not this off-season, but if he starts slow or similar next year, he won?t be here.

Right. Choose a guy that has steadfastly refused to win a Cup with any number of worthy teams and send him to NY to get chewed up and spit out. Wouldn't be my first instinct.

1. Welcome to the NHL. This is how coaching works.

2. If you're thinking big picture/long term, you're thinking about the kids who are the foundation of this team, and who need some offensive structure to feed off of.

3. DARN!!!

I know I'm in the minority with this, but I really would like to see Quinn get a good chance with this squad. It's not like we're stuck with him. The Rangers can cut him loose at any time, but I just have a gut feeling if we give him at least the rest of this season, we're going to see some really excellent progress out of a lot of these guys.

 

I realize he gets killed for Kakko and Laffy at times, but he's been pretty good with Miller and Chytil...

 

I just think these young guns are going to "get it" at their own pace, and I can't make Quinn the whipping boy for everything. He'll make some questionable decisions at times, sure. I just think that's part of him learning the team, and the chemistry of the guys.

 

I may change my mind down the road on him, but I just would like to see what he can do this year with these kids...it's still only 10 games in.

So, I do not agree with that progress is at our doorsteps, but I'm going to breakaway from that for a moment to say:

Nothing of what DQ does has any sort of systematic reasoning or rationale, for the most part. He isn't coaching or installing a system that players are adjusting to and the challenge is to get them playing the game within his parameters (ala JT Miller/AV), he simply does not coach with intent strategically speaking. They're free form jazz with a bunch of low level orchestral players, and a handful of guys who can sell out the Lincoln Center.

I said what I said.

Seriously, this team needs life in its system, and everywhere he goes, the goals follow. We currently do not have a system, we have a head coach with an abnormally large forehead and a cool accent. Do it Gorton, coward.

Accountable FOR WHAT? Not agreeing with a horseshit reactionary benching? Because besides that, what are we making this guy accountable for, besides being on the ice for goals against? Teammates takes jabs at each other. They yell at each other for poor play. DeAngelo shouldn't be held to some special standard with that. He made a comment and the player who ALSO has played like shit (save for one game), punched him..

 

Quinn is currently being credited with destroying the teams top 3 prospects in Shestyorkin, Kakko, and Lafrenier, add Gauthier and Hajek to the list. Hey, maybe he was fucking up DeAngelo too

 

At the moment i'm not willing to give this no structure, no consistency, no identity coach, credit for very much.

Quinn being a shit coach (which he is) really has nothing to do with Tony Deangelo and his attitude problems my guy. You?re defending damaged goods like a used car salesman trying to con an ignorant buyer.

Tony was suspended twice in the OHL, once for berating an official and again for racist remarks. And his OHL coaches absolutely fucking hated him. He was a shit teammate when things weren?t going well by all accounts (lol wow crazy coincidence amirite?).

Despite this, he was considered the best offensive defense in the OHL for his draft year and in the 2014 draft he was taken 19th overall by the Lightening, only to then be traded from Tampa to Arizona a year later.

Why was he traded? During his stint in Syracuse, despite being offensively productive (6 goals/37 assists) he was scratched 8 times for being completely undisciplined in his play and woeful in his own zone, and was generally considered a head case by the coaching staff (lol wow crazy coincidence amirite?).

In Arizona, he was relatively fine to deal with in 25 games playing for their AHL affiliate the Tucson Roadrunners before being called up, where he?d shortly after he suspended by the nhl for physical abuse of an official. He would then be included to the NYR in the Stepan trade.

We all know what he?s done in his time here, so why is this a Quinn problem. The dude had an MO that has followed him everywhere: in times of good, his competitive edge is welcomed and he is effective offensively. When things are not going well, he?s awful to deal with from coaches to players, and he has a big mouth.

Why are you deflecting this and trying to simplify it to a Quinn problem? What does this have to do with Quinn? You?re going to respond with some bait and switch argument and not address the points at hand so I am asking rhetorically, it you are also arguing just to argue, because you like him for reasons probably outside of hockey. Cool. He still deserved this and it shows that other teams around the league didn?t take a chance on a dude who has incredible offensive upside from the backend, cause he?s such a piece of shit to deal with.

But it?s a Quinn problem.

Link: https://twitter.com/colincampbell/status/1338530419420106754

Keep Philly out of that dark blue line ya dig.

The US developmental/national team calls the goalie butterfly drill the "Barrasso Drill". Barrasso broke into the NHL in 1983/84. So the butterfly was nothing new. It goes way back.

 

Grant anything and everything you can say about equipment improvements, conditioning, coaching, speed of the game, but you make it sound like the guys were wearing figure skates, drinking whiskey between periods and had flat faced old time wood sticks. The big changes were post lockout enforcement of stick fouls, taking out the red line (ergo, the stretch passes) the end of freezing the puck and endless faceoffs. Pre and post lockouts present different challenges for a goalie but not that different; it still comes down to stopping shots.

 

https://cdn1.sportngin.com/attachments/document/0042/0173/Barrasso.pdf

 

Leetch's stats which compare comfortably with some of the best who ever played his position. If you think he was carried by anyone in 1994, well,

 

https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/l/leetcbr01.html

 

Lundqvist compares closest to Roberto Luongo-very good, but not one of the best ever at his position. If either gets into the HoF, the other should go in at the same time. It's like a mirror, right down to AV being a pussy in a Finals.

 

https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/l/lundqhe01.html

Except that Lundqvist has done it in 160 less games... but yeah no totally the same.

As for the Barasso drill, it?s a drill for a specific action, not the entirety of goaltending and how the game is played. You have to understand that. The butterfly goalie doesn?t exist anymore for the most part. It?s a hybrid.

And if you don?t see the difference in eras I don?t know what to tell you. It?s night and day, and this isn?t like a passive statement, it?s a fact lol.

I mean... I agree with your point overall but Leetch won a Conn Smythe, hard to say the Cup was won on the backs of others.

Yeah, I was being a dick, but this argument is infuriating to say the least lol.

Leetch, injured the whole of the 1994 playoffs, was epic.

 

Can you point to the season when Lundqvist did that? Grant you there are things beyond the control of any goalie. But when it mattered that didn't happen.

 

Again, agree to disagree. Stopping the puck is still stopping the puck, no matter the different eras. And the 1980s is not nearly the dark ages you think it was.

 

And if Lundqvist signs with the Caps, fuck him.

If the 80?s aren?t wildly different to now, why do goalies play entirely different in the net? Like dude I hate playing this card but you clearly do not play the game or have any personal understanding of how this game works beyond casual viewership. Like please ask anyone who has been involved with hockey at a high level for 20 years how different the sport is now compared to the 80?s. I can?t fathom where you get this notion but it?s simply wrong.

For everyone who shits on ESPN, what exactly has NBC done in its time that makes you prefer it?

You get mad that ESPN relegated the nhl in non-game day shows like sports center, etc. yet NBC doesn’t even have any investment in non-game day programming. Comparing apples to apples, the telecasts for ESPN were bookended with more content, better content, and they had a much more qualified set of commentators and analysts. The guys they employed all covered hockey in major markets or coached/ran teams. It wasn’t Canadian rejects like Milbury, who fans have complained about forever but yet still has a job, or Pierre, who again no one particularly likes but yet consistently is still used in broadcasts.

ESPN actually knows how to create content and build up narratives. They also know how to make good game day and broadcast television. Nothing nbc sports has shown since 2006 has proven that they can compare to the level of broadcasting that ESPN delivers, nor have they ever seemed in anyway committed to the sport.