Fatfrancesa

And who do they lose to every year? The team that has better depth and is built around some good players but not guys threatening the top of the nhl salary structure. Boston drafts well and is four lines deep. Boston isn’t the model either but they are a far better model than the leafs

Which good asset did Toronto lose?

 

Also, all team are close to the ceiling, so “all teams lose guys because of the cap”. Better to use the money on contributing players than Smith and Shattenkirk.

 

Can Toronto win a playoff series before they become the model for discussion

There is no good reason to NOT sign Panarin.

 

He's high end talent that is ready to step on the roster without giving up any assets. He's not going to be the top paid player in the game, he's going to get what he's worth. A fair deal is going to get it done.

 

The Rangers need a legit top end forward in his prime and this guy fits the bill.

Opportunities like this don't come around too often. If you aren't going to spend the money on this guy......, then your never going to spend it.

 

Lundqvist, Staal, Smith and Shattenkirk will be off the roster if/when the team needs cap space to resign their own talent. That's like 7 billion dollars right there... Cap space for our potential future should not be any reason to not sign anyone.

 

I'm hoping this cupboard full of Russians is enough to entice Panarin to come here. On top of playing in a market where he will be seen...

 

Signing him will cost you assets eventually. Signing him means people need to go right now. The people going now aren’t going to hurt.

 

People act like signing him will be the end of the rangers or the fans from wanting to add more “free” players during the next 3-4 years. It’s laughable. The rangers are still a bad team with panarin. So signing him is just a start but signing him makes it much more difficult to maneuver

There would be no discussion if there was no cap. Sign him. I choose to live in reality.

Nah. It's precisely why you sign him. Odds are he's better than most or all of our prospects ever will be, though I hold some optimism that one or two will turn out to be stars. I'll pay the money for high end talent.

 

Seriously odds are? You are advocating paying him $11-12m a year for 7 years. You think he should be better? He better be. The prospects you are hoping g he’s better than cost you league minimum. Is this a joke?

The reality is that not all of the prospects will pan out and command high dollar contracts. It's also probably not reasonable to assume they all bust. Both of those scenarios are unrealistic as it will probably be somewhere in between. 1, maybe 2 if you're lucky, might be at that level where you have to pay them a high dollar contract. The others will be at some level ranging anywhere from bust to 2nd line player. Those are the guys you eventually move if you need cap space, because those are the guys that would never be as good as Panarin is.

 

Agreed. And that’s why tying yourself up with a contract that panarin is asking for makes no sense. This team is not ready for it and like you said they don’t even know what they have yet no less start thinking about contending. By the time those things become clear panarin may very well be declining and not living up to his contract. The two best prospects are wings and one is considered a cant miss. So if there is one position that they should be ok with it’s wing. Top it off the easiest position and cheapest position to fill is on the wing. Making it even worse that panarin is asking what he’s asking for. Top echelon centers get less and he’s barely a point per game player who generally speaking isn’t putting those points up with 40-50 goals. He’s completely overrated and instantly an awful contract as soon as his pen hits paper at anything over $10m a aeason

Bingo. The center position will work itself out. There's this false narrative that the Rangers won't have cap space to sign their prospects in 4 years, and all of whom supposedly will explode into franchise players and they won't all fit under the cap. If that happens, not only will I be doing backflips at our good fortune, but those guys will fill the holes that people are complaining. If it doesn't happen, then those guys won't get a ton of money and cap space really isn't a problem is it?

 

So will the wing position as the rangers have far better prospects there. If your doing backflips then they do have a cap problem. If those prospects don’t work our adding panarin does nothing as this is still a bad team making signing him pointless other than to satisfy your need for satisfaction right now.

 

The center position is a complete unknown outside of one player. Of those unknowns none of them project to be more than a third line center at best case. If chytil is your answer than the pressures you are supposedly alleviating is all being transfered onto him.

2-3 years from now signing a player of Panarin's caliber, if one is available, will cost you over $14 million per year.

 

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Maybe that guy will playa position of need, like center

The rangers are not currently situated to make this move. That is the reality. Signing panarin does not make them a contender. Their window opens ideally 2-3 years from now at which point panarin’s contract can just as easily be a negative as a positive.

You’ve been telling me for a year that strong wingers can make effective centers.

Get the elite player when you have the chance.

They’re not winning anything next season, so see if a guy can develop into a 2C.

In 2-3 seasons, if it’s still an issue, trade a few prospects (they have enough) for a C. Guys like Duchene and O’Reilly wouldn’t be hard to acquire using their stockpile of prospects.

 

They will need every low cost player they have in 3-4 years. Trading them for an O’Reilly or duchene type requires cap space which they will not be in supply of

11.5 or 12.5. Makes little difference both would fuck this team going forward

Yes but we’re not aiming for the cup next year. A center could develop or signed next year

 

 

Yes centers should come cheap either by trade or free agency if the rangers need to acquire them. Good point.

Now yes. But the cap is always rising. In 2-3 years his cap will look pretty good

 

Tell that to Minnesota about parise and suter. Praise by the way is another all ranger fans had to have for “free”. Thank fucking god he wanted to go home. Because you know what could possibly go wrong?

I love that we're drawing a line.

 

If he wants the money, he can go to Florida. I'd be disappointed, but I won't be angry at Gorton for managing our cap as well as he can.

Yes he can come here to be only the third highest paid player in the league and starve making $11.5m. That’s driving a hard bargain slright

It’s rare to NOT overpay for FA’s. Especially for NY teams. Players and agents know there’s more money in the coffers. And they play the cost of living card to the hilt.

 

I will say though that Panarin represents the best and most comfortable I’ve been with one of theirbFA targets probably since Gaborik 10 years ago. And Gaborik had durability issues and was coming off a major surgery when they signed him. Panarin does not have those same questions surrounding him.

 

Bottom line I think if they wind up with Panarin they’re very happy with what they get out of him for 5 seasons and you live with the last 2.

 

I’ll be shocked if he’s a point per game here.

I disagree because at least the 12 million player is going to put up points. You might be paying a lot but at least you're getting a lot.

 

And what if that player doesn’t put a point per game?

Trouba and Subban were both just traded for nothing. More qualityguys are going to be moved this off season under the same circumstances. The cap is pushing teams to trade players they wouldn’t move otherwise. Nobody here knows who the cap casualties will be in the next couple of years. The rangers should not be rushing themselves into these waters. Three years from now the rangers will have their own rfa crisis. Signing panarin for $12m will not cost nothing but money. It will cost the rangers three years from now albeit in draft picks like Toronto with Marleau or with having to lose a player or two they can no longer afford. It is so damn shortsighted to go all in on panarin right now. With Kakko entering the fold with Kravtsov the rangers already have two wings that project into big time players who will need big time money three years from now. Are you really building this around three wings?

Uncle Larry today says that if it is a choice between at Panarin at 11.5 per for seven years and Kreider at 6.5 for 6, he'd take the latter. I agree. He also points out that there will be other big name UFAs next year and it might be better to wait to see our needs. Agreed again. Last year it was Tavares, this year Panarin, next year someone else.

 

Uncle Larry must be reading my posts

St. Louis built a team with players slotted into specific roles that suited them and the team needs. They did it with depth up front and their foundation is defense, players and system. Tarensenko became the complimentary goal scorer that’s always a threat but their offense was made by a team wide hellacious forecheck. Of course goaltending was the missing piece. No need for $11-12m players. They built a team not a marketing strategy

Do agree at all. Especially if they sign Panarin and keep Kreider. Kakko shouldn't be viewed as a normal teenager either.

 

Panarin - Zibanejad - Kakko

Kreider - Chytil - Buch

Lemuiex - Andersson - Kravtsov

Nerves - Howden - Fast

 

Skjei - Trouba

Staal - Fox

Hajek - ADA

 

That is not a bad hockey team.

 

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Why shouldn’t he? He’s 18 coming to a new country, speaks little English, and has to adapt to the nhl grind. All the while having impossible expectations being heaped on him like him not being a normal teenager. He’s going to be great but people need to calm down and let the kid breathe.

 

On top of that you have chytil, Andersson, howden, Kravtsov, Hajek, Fox, lemieux and Nieves all still trying to find their roles and figure it out as a nhl player as well. Add in an ancient hank and your expectation is contending?

The Trouba trade signaled a shot across the bow to the rest of the league that we don't plan on languishing near the bottom, or tanking, any more than we have to. For the first time in modern league history we struck gold with the lottery, and adding a franchise player in Kakko drastically changes the dynamic moving forward. Picking 6th-8th and nabbing one of the top centers would have been nice, but none of them are ready to play now and none of them are in the same league as Kakko.

 

We all know that in today's NHL, the best defense is a good offense. Puck-moving is no longer a luxury on defense, it's a prerequisite. You need every one of your top 6 to be able to clear the puck out, make that outlet pass and, if they have it in their toolset, even join the rush. To this end, Fox/Trouba/Skjei/ADA are a great start. Coming down the pike at some point are K'Andre Miller, Nils Lundkvist, Yegor Rykov, Tarmo Reunanen, Joey Keane, etc.

 

The forwards likewise took a big step forward over the last year. Zibanejad is for all intents and purposes a #1C, and the roster is filled out with young talent up front like Howden, Chytil, Andersson, Krav (presumably), Kakko, Buchnevich, etc. Kreider may be the odd man out, but if he sticks around that's an even clearer indication that we are going for it.

 

If you buy in to the idea that we're in an arms race with NJ, sadly they're winning. Hischier cancels out Zib, we don't have another center to match Hughes (though Kakko should match the offense to some extent) Subban candle out Trouba, and so the x-factor is Hall, a league MVP and leading point-scorer that we can't match.

 

And so that leaves the free agency. Artemi Panarin, if we're truly going for it, has become something of a must. That's our best shot at sniffing at a Hall-type talent, and it still falls short. Also in the mix, in my opinion, should be Joe Pavelski. He would drastically alter the dynamic down the middle, plays in all situations, and would be an excellent leader for a team with a lot of young faces. Problem is that when you have to pay those young faces, you can't be handcuffed by Staal-esque contracts. If Pavelski is willing to come on board for 2-3 years (which I doubt he will be), that's a move to strongly consider.

 

There's also the issue of having actual, defensive defensemen. Shatty should go and should be replaced by a cheaper stalwart type. For Staal, it seems like we're simply awaiting retirement to some extent. He rebounded last year but is still a shell of what he once was.

 

The point of this thread? I think we still have a shot at getting Henrik a Cup. I wouldn't buy in to the Henrik-window logic anymore where we mortgage the future because his clock is ticking, but we don't have to watch him fade in to obscurity either. St. Louis showed that you just need to be hot, get some puck luck at the right moments, and play as a unit to win it all. As soon as next season we could be doing the same.

 

What's next, in your opinion? How do you "complete" the rebuild on the fly? In my opinion, if Staal/Kreider/Shatty go, and you add Panarin/Pavelski/#4-#5 defensive defenseman, that's the whole ball game. We're ready to take a shot at it. But those are a lot of big "ifs," and July 1 will be very, very telling (and outcome-determinative).

 

Exhibit A in why people say you can’t rebuild in nyc. Multiple teenagers on our roster, it is completely unfair to expect them to contend. This is till s bad hockey team. Only difference is that there is much to look forward to and that they will be bad because of youth not lack of talent. The potential for greatness is there, people just need to temper their expectations and let them grow up.

Sounds like JT Miller is off to Vancouver

 

1st roundergoing back to Tampa. Wonder if Namestnikov gets us a first?

For basically nothing. Trouba now Subban traded for very little. Good players are always available because of the cap as long as you have the space to fit them.

Yet I’m one of the few who would rather sign kreider

Zibanejad will need a huge raise as well then too