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Thread: The Salary-Cap Hell the Rangers are Still Trying to Navigate

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Well for possibly the 100th time... The contracts that are the issue go away when those ELCs expire.
    And some of them will actually still be on an ELC for another year. Then you have another wave of guys who will have at least 2 ELC years left in K'Andre Miller and Lundkvist.

  2. #102
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    People are too worried about the cap. We got real talent on the roster and real contention is probably a year or two away. Donít do anything to damage the future.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by tphilly5 View Post
    People are too worried about the cap. We got real talent on the roster and real contention is probably a year or two away. Donít do anything to damage the future.
    What's real contention for a playoff spot, cup? Series question in the middle of the summer for conversation sake. There's a shitload of kids up front not talking about Kakko in this case. But a whole handful of guys that have to pick their collective games way up. Hopefully none of them crap out but it's also pretty unrealistic to think they all progress. Panicking, nope not at all but there's a ton of questions to be answered once the cap issues are settled. Hoping for the best.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tphilly5 View Post
    People are too worried about the cap. We got real talent on the roster and real contention is probably a year or two away. Don’t do anything to damage the future.
    Buying out shattenkirk Staal or smith damages the future. Trading assets packaged with these humps damages the future. They will probably have to do one or the other. Not sure which one is the option better. I will say I think they have to move kreider for picks or prospects. I didn’t think that before but it seems like the smart thing to do now.

  5. #105
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    "Damages the future," how, exactly? Who will it cost the Rangers to buy any of them out?
    "Everyone says you should be a good loser. If youíre a good loser, youíre a loser."
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  6. #106
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    I guess we’ll see

  7. #107
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    So no one?
    "Everyone says you should be a good loser. If youíre a good loser, youíre a loser."
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    "Never be a spectator of unfairness or stupidity. Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake; the grave will supply plenty of time for silence."
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  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    Buying out shattenkirk Staal or smith damages the future.
    This is sorta true, with the exception that the 2020-2021 cap is the most impacted.

    Here's Brendan Smith's buyout cap hits:

    2019-20: 970,733
    2020-21: 3,145,833
    2021-22: 1,145,833
    2022-23: 1,145,833

    Here's Shattenkirk:

    2019-20: 1,483,333
    2020-21: 6,083,333
    2021-22: 1,433,333
    2022-23: 1,433,333

    Here's Staal, just in case:

    2019-20: 2,900,000
    2020-21: 3,700,000
    2021-22: 1,200,000
    2022-23: 1,200,000

    Nothing awful. What's also worth noting: our re-sign needs for 2020 are minimal (Kreider, maybe. Strome, maybe. Fast, maybe). Further, the UFA class for 2020 is not a class we should splash cash in. It's likely headlined by Tyson Barrie and Alex Galchenyuk(no way Hall, Backstrom, or Pietrangelo hit UFA). Not interested; I'm okay with the dead cap there. Dealing with a "Beleskey level" hit for two more years doesn't make me sad either - a million dollars in dead space won't hurt us.

    It's 2021-22 and 2022-23 when we have potential problems - new contracts for all the kids and also Mika Zibanejad.

    Trading assets packaged with these humps damages the future.
    Can't disagree more. We're not putting all 12 defenders we're sitting on in the top 6. Someone's left out. Trading Ryan Lindgren or someone at that level to get rid of Namestnikov or Smith to ensure we're keeping Tony DeAngelo is almost assuredly not a deal we're crying about in a few years. At all.

    They will probably have to do one or the other. Not sure which one is the option better.
    The right move is probably not either-or, it's both. You package someone to get rid of Shattenkirk/Smith or Namestnikov, and you buy out Smith or Shattenkirk.

    I will say I think they have to move kreider for picks or prospects. I didnít think that before but it seems like the smart thing to do now.
    It's probably not the smart thing to do, nor the case. Kreider's under team control for at least another year.
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  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    "Damages the future," how, exactly? Who will it cost the Rangers to buy any of them out?
    Taylor Hall.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    Taylor Hall.
    He's not getting to free agency. There's literally zero chance.
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  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by G1000 View Post
    He's not getting to free agency. There's literally zero chance.
    Said that about JT and Panarin too.

    The point is, though, that what the buyouts do is make it so the Rangers can't be aggressive next offseason.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    Said that about JT and Panarin too.

    The point is, though, that what the buyouts do is make it so the Rangers can't be aggressive next offseason.
    Panarin was talked about wanting out of Columbus for over a year.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by G1000 View Post
    He's not getting to free agency. There's literally zero chance.
    What on Earth would make you say that? It's easily 50/50 right now.

  14. #114
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    There's plenty of teams with worse cap situations than the Rangers.

    https://www.capfriendly.com/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    Said that about JT and Panarin too.

    The point is, though, that what the buyouts do is make it so the Rangers can't be aggressive next offseason.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    What on Earth would make you say that? It's easily 50/50 right now.
    The Devils are neither the inept as hell homeless Islanders nor the "nobody wants to live here" Blue Jackets. If Hall doesn't re-sign with the Devils, I'd be shocked. Even if he gets traded, that team will almost assuredly roll up a Brinks truck to him.

    Even if he does make 7/1, we just brought in a top line wing at 11M+ a year, and have two prospects that should be at least in discussion to be another. We shouldn't be in on Hall. That's a move that forces really ugly cap situations.

    Beyond Hall, who do you want next summer? I don't see a single name on that list that makes me go "yeah, let's make sure we've got that extra Shattenkirk cap space for him"
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  16. #116
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    I’m not concerned about next year and really never was. My argument from the beginning is that this team is realistically going to be a contender three to four years from now when the kids all grow into their adult bodies and game. At that point when the rangers are ready to contend and seriously be considered a favorite they will need to pay all these 21-24 year old players. At that point this slam dunk of a off season with panarin signing could cost them at the cost of having a 32 year old 12m contract. I know it’s way to forward thinking to be a legitimate thought here. Panarin no doubt helps right now but to what end? The end I’m concerned with is a cup. What I really didn’t even consider is the cap problem right now. I thought trading any of the players talked about even with salary retention wouldn’t matter towards the time frame or future cap. That is looking lesss likely as it seems there is no market for these guys for obvious reasons. The cap issue is a league wide concern and teams aren’t lining up to take on players who are worth far less than their cap hits.

    So to answer your question I don’t know who it’s going to cost. What I can tell you which is pretty obvious, is that any player making 12m is going to effect what else you can add or keep on your roster. The players you will lose directly (being able to keep) and indirectly (unable to attain) will be many.

    There are valid arguments both ways that it will be worth it in the end. We are all just projecting at this point, we will see. It’s to a lesser degree the same argument as hanks contract. Difference is hank was the premier goalie on the planet, proved it here, was home grown, and was unquestionably the backbone of this team capable of winning games on his own. Yet his contract hindered what the team could put around him during those contending years and is a drain on the cap now and the bill is coming due. I didn’t love it when he signed his contract but I understood it and can see the argument either way if it was worth it or not.

    Panarin is a wing and hopefully I’m proven brutally wrong. I just don’t think he’s in that tier of player that is worthy of his contract and especially the term. Of course that’s what it costs to swim in the ufa market. I just don’t think you have to jump in at least not until you can actually learn to swim. Most of the rangers roster is still taking swim lessons so the timing is my problem first and foremost

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    Taylor Hall.
    They're not going to sign him anyway. They already have Panarin.
    "Everyone says you should be a good loser. If youíre a good loser, youíre a loser."
    - John Tortorella


    "Never be a spectator of unfairness or stupidity. Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake; the grave will supply plenty of time for silence."
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  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by G1000 View Post
    Beyond Hall, who do you want next summer? I don't see a single name on that list that makes me go "yeah, let's make sure we've got that extra Shattenkirk cap space for him"
    Just to add to this, they are stuck with 80%+ minimum of the Shattenkirk hit whether they buy him out this year or next year, and obviously 100% of the hit if they keep him. If buying him out is the plan, it should just be done now. I don't buy the talk that once Shattenkirk's bonus is paid out next summer, teams will magically want him and the Rangers will be able to trade him. He'd have to have a good year, which is possible but not likely.

    The right decision really depends on the potential trades Gorton can make, and we don't know what they are. If it's terrible value, you have to buyout Shattenkirk. If it's decent to good value, you make the trades to free up the space. Something tells me the trades might have been made already if Gorton felt like it wasn't terrible value. Signs currently point to a Shattenkirk buyout unless that changes.

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by G1000 View Post
    The Devils are neither the inept as hell homeless Islanders nor the "nobody wants to live here" Blue Jackets. If Hall doesn't re-sign with the Devils, I'd be shocked. Even if he gets traded, that team will almost assuredly roll up a Brinks truck to him.

    Even if he does make 7/1, we just brought in a top line wing at 11M+ a year, and have two prospects that should be at least in discussion to be another. We shouldn't be in on Hall. That's a move that forces really ugly cap situations.

    Beyond Hall, who do you want next summer? I don't see a single name on that list that makes me go "yeah, let's make sure we've got that extra Shattenkirk cap space for him"
    Exactly. If anything, it might keep Gorton from doing something stupid, like signing Backstrom.
    "Everyone says you should be a good loser. If youíre a good loser, youíre a loser."
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    "Never be a spectator of unfairness or stupidity. Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake; the grave will supply plenty of time for silence."
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  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by G1000 View Post
    Beyond Hall, who do you want next summer? I don't see a single name on that list that makes me go "yeah, let's make sure we've got that extra Shattenkirk cap space for him"
    Hoffman, Dadonov, Pietro, B Schenn. And that's not even considering possible trades from sellers. If CBJ sucks, it's not impossible that Cam Atkinson becomes available. If Henrik Borgstrom is a top-6 player, maybe Florida will part ways with Trochek.

    There are a million players who could/might become available, but again, the point isn't "who." It's that, if you're against the cap, you're limiting your ability to take advantage of any opportunities that do present themselves.

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