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Thread: Pavel Buchnevich, Jacob Trouba File for Arbitration

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by CBrowningPI View Post
    If they move Kreider, who is going to be their net front presence? How many goals were directly influenced by him screening the goalie and he doesn't get any credit in his stats. Zib had a career year and deserves the accolades but he definitely was helped on many goals by Kreider. Losing a strong, fast skating, offensive threat to help develop the youngins would be a terrible move in relation to where this team now sits. I also think Philly will regret that 7x7 Hayes deal. If Kreider does get re-signed it will be closer to 6-6.5 x 5-6yrs. Maybe with incentives added. They really need to dump Names and possibly Strome. Smith will never play at MSG again.
    Someone else will need to step into that role if he leaves

    I like Kreider too. Just not enough to pay him in the $7 million neighborhood till he’s 35.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CBrowningPI View Post
    If they move Kreider, who is going to be their net front presence? How many goals were directly influenced by him screening the goalie and he doesn't get any credit in his stats. Zib had a career year and deserves the accolades but he definitely was helped on many goals by Kreider. Losing a strong, fast skating, offensive threat to help develop the youngins would be a terrible move in relation to where this team now sits. I also think Philly will regret that 7x7 Hayes deal. If Kreider does get re-signed it will be closer to 6-6.5 x 5-6yrs. Maybe with incentives added. They really need to dump Names and possibly Strome. Smith will never play at MSG again.
    Someone else will need to step into that role if he leaves

    I like Kreider too. Just not enough to pay him in the $7 million neighborhood till hes 35.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    I would. In a year or two. Bridge in the meantime.


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    We were talking about Kreider.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravesy View Post
    But lets be honest here, the guys you mentioned are significantly better than Chris Kreider and have been for their entire careers.
    I'm really not trying to undersell Kreider. I like him. Like I said, we're splitting hairs on the numbers, but personally I find expecting a guy who has never scored 30 and north of 25 only twice in a 7 year career to be a 25-30 goalscorer well into his 30's a bit unrealistic. I just think the fit and timing for a 7 year deal for him is not a good one. If they could sign him for 5 years I'd be all in. I think it very well could be prohibitive, because in 3 years time they're going to be looking to add final pieces to the puzzle to push them over the line, and - if I'm right in my worries over Kreider - a semi productive 30 something on 7m with several years left is exactly the type of contract that stands in the way.

    If by "in the mix" you mean "have a shot at the playoffs" then I don't disagree. But that's not exactly what I'm thinking of when saying a team is in win now mode.
    Alex Steen and TJ Oshie are significantly better than Chris Kreider? Nah.

    FYI - Steen had his career-high in goals at age 29, and Oshie did it at 30. Neither had broken 30 goals before then, Steen had never broken 25, and the only time Oshie broke 25 was...when he was 29.

    "In the mix" is like that 6-10 range. I don't think there's very much difference between a 100-point team and a 90-point team, and they can be right in that range next year.
    Last edited by Future; 07-17-2019 at 09:36 AM.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puck Head View Post
    This is a pretty extreme exaggeration.
    There are no Matthews in this draft. Probably no Hughes either. There may be one player compatible to them and Eichel.

    The difference in the 2020 draft is there may be 5 players at a top tier where typically there has been only 2-3


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    Eh, forgot about Matthews lol. Should have said since him.

    I mean I know it's early, but I think you could make a case that, if Hughes and Kakko were drafted in 2020, they could go like 5-6 as easily as 1-2. I don't buy Hughes as some franchise changing player, so maybe that's just a difference in opinion. They're all Eichel, but none of them are McDavid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    Eh, forgot about Matthews lol. Should have said since him.

    I mean I know it's early, but I think you could make a case that, if Hughes and Kakko were drafted in 2020, they could go like 5-6 as easily as 1-2. I don't buy Hughes as some franchise changing player, so maybe that's just a difference in opinion. They're all Eichel, but none of them are McDavid.
    LaFreniere is a franchise altering player and potentially a generational type talent. Several other guys are looking like they may fit into the franchise altering category as well.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by RangersIn7 View Post
    LaFreniere is a franchise altering player and potentially a generational type talent. Several other guys are looking like they may fit into the franchise altering category as well.
    He probably is, though it's a little too early to say.

    The rest could all be what Eichel was to McDavid though, and that puts them in the same tier as Hughes/Kakko. Still too early and it's all "potentially," but that's why I can't see a team moving a first-rounder any time before the deadline when they know they will be out of the running for one of those top 5-6 picks.

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    Lafreniere is more like Lecavalier for me, or, Daigle.

    Need another season to see where he's at.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunny View Post
    Lafreniere is more like Lecavalier for me, or, Daigle.

    Need another season to see where he's at.
    Absolutely need another season from him.
    But for what it’s worth, he was absolutely the best player in the entire CHL this year. Out producing everyone in just about every category.

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    Sure, but then was essentially benched when he stepped up a competition level @ the WJC, which is fine, and should even be expected given his age, but what is he, to me he's more the "well rounded" first overall than a McDavid. But it's too early, we all know.

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    Pre draft: Getting Either Hughes or Kakko will change the Franchise! It's a win/win!
    Post draft: Eh, niether are really Franchise altering, would probably go 5th or 6th in 2020.

    Are there any people on the face of the earth more bi polar than Rangers fans?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    Alex Steen and TJ Oshie are significantly better than Chris Kreider? Nah.

    FYI - Steen had his career-high in goals at age 29, and Oshie did it at 30. Neither had broken 30 goals before then, Steen had never broken 25, and the only time Oshie broke 25 was...when he was 29.

    "In the mix" is like that 6-10 range. I don't think there's very much difference between a 100-point team and a 90-point team, and they can be right in that range next year.
    I was referring to the post where you suggested Kreider could/should have the same career arc as Pavelski and Marleau.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravesy View Post
    I was referring to the post where you suggested Kreider could/should have the same career arc as Pavelski and Marleau.
    A - No, because it was specifically about the contracts
    B - Doesn't matter, because I never said he was as good and that's not the point anyway. They're only relevant because they're examples of players who peaked at 29-30 and maintained.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunny View Post
    Sure, but then was essentially benched when he stepped up a competition level @ the WJC, which is fine, and should even be expected given his age, but what is he, to me he's more the "well rounded" first overall than a McDavid. But it's too early, we all know.
    I totally agree with that assessment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Pre draft: Getting Either Hughes or Kakko will change the Franchise! It's a win/win!
    Post draft: Eh, niether are really Franchise altering, would probably go 5th or 6th in 2020.

    Are there any people on the face of the earth more bi polar than Rangers fans?

    Anyone saying Hughes or Kakko would fall that low is probably wrong. The top 3 in 2020 would be those 2 And LaFreniere in some order in all likelihood. Hughes and Kakko are Tier 1 prospects in any draft.

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    A - yes, that was the post I was referring to lol
    B - Marleau peaked in 05/06. But yeah, they’re examples of excellent players who peaked a bit later. There’s a significantly bigger pool of players who didn’t, I’m sure you’ll agree.

    Look, for me it comes down to whether a) the Rangers should make decisions based on being as good as possible right now or b) being as good as possible in 3 years time. If you’re an a) guy, you re sign Kreider. I’m a b) guy. In that case, I think you trade him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravesy View Post
    A - yes, that was the post I was referring to lol
    B - Marleau peaked in 05/06. But yeah, they’re examples of excellent players who peaked a bit later. There’s a significantly bigger pool of players who didn’t, I’m sure you’ll agree.

    Look, for me it comes down to whether a) the Rangers should make decisions based on being as good as possible right now or b) being as good as possible in 3 years time. If you’re an a) guy, you re sign Kreider. I’m a b) guy. In that case, I think you trade him.
    No, it wasn't. Not based on what you responded to.
    He scored a career high in goals (38) at age 29 in 2008-09. He then did the same thing (44 goals) at age 30 in 2009-10.

    Fine. I already know as much. But, like I said, you don't need to discredit/devalue Kreider to have that opinion.

  20. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravesy View Post
    A - yes, that was the post I was referring to lol
    B - Marleau peaked in 05/06. But yeah, they’re examples of excellent players who peaked a bit later. There’s a significantly bigger pool of players who didn’t, I’m sure you’ll agree.

    Look, for me it comes down to whether a) the Rangers should make decisions based on being as good as possible right now or b) being as good as possible in 3 years time. If you’re an a) guy, you re sign Kreider. I’m a b) guy. In that case, I think you trade him.
    I want to play this out for a second, so bear with.

    We've said we want to resolve the Kreider situation before training camp. That seems to be the messaging from the FO. We can resolve either with an extension, or with a trade.

    If we go extension - Hayes and Lee probably set Kreider's market in the mid-high 6 range, probably for 6-ish years. We could very well afford that based on next years' cap structure; easily, actually. We have quite literally nobody worth re-signing coming off the books short of Jesper Fast. Kreider's approximately a .66 ppg player; if he doesn't improve at all, he'd be the third highest paid player in that bracket (Jaime Benn, Anders Lee, oddly enough), and overpaid for that bracket on average by around 1.25 million. That's a real rough pill to swallow.

    If we go trade - the first question is what exactly we'd want back. If we trade him at this point, I'd reckon we're thinking 1st+prospect, or 2nd+blue chip. If we're going 1st+prospect, we'd at least want to gamble that pick could land us in a lottery spot.

    Second, who can actually take him? Top/ideal destinations are almost all cap-strapped, or clearly budgeting that cap for a key RFA.

    Third, where does he want to go? The contract includes an 11 team NTC.

    So, we'd be looking for a partner who has a bit of a prospect pool, has some reasonably available cap space, and that Kreider actually wants to go to.

    That quite literally leaves us with....Colorado, CBJ (though I venture that there's no fucking way Kreider wants to play for Torts), maybe Philly, pending the Provorov/Konecny deals?

    It's a hard time to envision either outcome truly working out right now, barring Kreider lowering his ask or a surprise team coming into play.
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